Trade Station and Trade the Markets

[DB008]

Hi All,
I've been getting free videos from TRADE THE MARKETS for some time now. Just wanting to know if anyone else is in the same boat. Some of the info isn't to bad, considering it's free.
Secondly, they use TRADE STATION. Does anyone else use this platform for trading. I looked on the Trade Station website and was pretty impressed with the awards they have won so far.
Check it out.

http://www.tradestation.com/default_2.shtm

http://www.tradethemarkets.com/

Daniel

 

[wayneL]

Don't use TS myself, but it is a very very good package... free to use if you use their brokerage service.

 

[Fl-Kiwi]

DannyBoy80,

Did you ever follow up with Trade The Markets? I've been looking at them pretty closely and would appreciate any feedback.

Thanks

 

[Rockhoundnz]

I use TS. It's great - probably the most popular charting software around. Just a pity the don't have a data supply for the ASX for TS.

 

[Fl-Kiwi]

RockhoundNZ,

Do you know of anyone using Trade The Markets? Their indicators or parcipating in their "live trading room"?

I'm a couple of days into their 14 day trial and trying to gather info on the kind of results people are getting with their system.

Thanks very much - Geoff

 

[Rockhoundnz]

RockhoundNZ,

Do you know of anyone using Trade The Markets? Their indicators or parcipating in their "live trading room"?

I'm a couple of days into their 14 day trial and trying to gather info on the kind of results people are getting with their system.

Thanks very much - Geoff

Nope, sorry. I have heard some "average" things about John Carter though. I know a lot of people subscribe to his room and he's very good at 'selling the room', but I don't know anything about his results. I'd be interested to hear how your trial goes - I didn't really look closely at them before deciding to join Puretick.

 

[MRC & Co]

The one thing that worries me about Carter, is how much effort he and his colleagues seem to put into their website!

If they were so successful, wouldn't they simply trade themselves? Perhaps doing some work with traders, but not spending the majority of their time "teaching" which is the way it seems. Just appears odd to me.

For "professional traders", they appear to be morphing into salesmen!

Then again, anyone running a truly "live trading room" and having a huge customer base, cannot be doing much wrong as far as trading is concerned!

 

[Pager]

I use Tradestation and wouldn't swap to anything else even though the version i use is about 10 years old and is the stand alone version that's not supported anymore, takes a bit of getting used to but still far superior to just about any other software IMO.

These days you can buy it second hand on Ebay, that's were i got mine about 5 years ago, cost me US$250 and came with all the manuals and security code, new it was US$2800.

The software is more suited to futures traders than stocks

 

[MRC & Co]

RockhoundNZ,

Do you know of anyone using Trade The Markets? Their indicators or parcipating in their "live trading room"?

I'm a couple of days into their 14 day trial and trying to gather info on the kind of results people are getting with their system.

Thanks very much - Geoff

Perhaps you can just read his book.

Im sure most of what he uses in his live rooms would be similar and sometimes the same strategies.

How much was their 14 day trial and what do you get? Do they sit through open to close of the main markets they trade (YM or ES) and make live calls every night for everyone who has signed up to follow?

 

[Fl-Kiwi]

To all who have posted recently on this topic.

I agree with the whole "why sell a winning formula at any price?" based scepticism. Why indeed? I don't think I would.

But - they (Trade The Markets) charge US$295/mth to be in their room and as of this moment - while I'm logged in - they have 224 people in the room. Many would be trialers but if half are paying members then that's $22K extra income per month. I still agree though - if the system's that good why not just stay home and trade?

They do seem to be doing their own thing for much of the day though. They show the YM and ES but are often trading something else off screen so it's not much good for following along. I guess if you have access to your own charts you could pull them and follow the dialogue.

They do call live trades though troughout the day and give entry and exit points with enough lead time to be able to assemble your order and get in/out when they do if you wanted to.

I like their "manage the trade" and "money management" philosophy.

The cost for the trial - to answer a question from MRC ... - is $5 for 14 days. If you don't cancel the membership your credit card gets whacked the full amount on the 15th day.

I have his (Carter) book ordered and will read as one of you suggested - thanks.

I'm new to this. The Tradestation account is being funded today so I'll have access to the demo platform and I plan to buy the TTM indicators even though they are apparently largely available for free on the TS website it would take me months to figure it out and it's worth the money (to me) to get up and running more quickly.

I watch their videos each day and consider them helpful.

The thing is - there's a few other decent looking outfits too. Puretick gets (some) good press. There're people who like Traders International too. Universally though - it seems that people prefer to slam than praise so praise is pretty scarce while the slams abound.

I'll post back here in a week or so with my observations from the TTM trial.

Thanks all for your comments and good trading.

Geoff

 

[Trembling Hand]

But - they (Trade The Markets) charge US$295/mth to be in their room and as of this moment - while I'm logged in - they have 224 people in the room. Many would be trialers but if half are paying members then that's $22K extra income per month. I still agree though - if the system's that good why not just stay home and trade?

Less Advertising & marketing, accounting, admin, staff, office, pro data, IT, tax & I could go on but income can only be calculated AFTER expenses so thats probably about $2000 extra income for their "winning formula". Probably less than a days profit for a good punter sitting in his undies at home.

 

[Rockhoundnz]

To all who have posted recently on this topic.

I agree with the whole "why sell a winning formula at any price?" based scepticism. Why indeed? I don't think I would.

But - they (Trade The Markets) charge US$295/mth to be in their room and as of this moment - while I'm logged in - they have 224 people in the room. Many would be trialers but if half are paying members then that's $22K extra income per month. I still agree though - if the system's that good why not just stay home and trade?

They do seem to be doing their own thing for much of the day though. They show the YM and ES but are often trading something else off screen so it's not much good for following along. I guess if you have access to your own charts you could pull them and follow the dialogue.

They do call live trades though troughout the day and give entry and exit points with enough lead time to be able to assemble your order and get in/out when they do if you wanted to.

I like their "manage the trade" and "money management" philosophy.

The cost for the trial - to answer a question from MRC ... - is $5 for 14 days. If you don't cancel the membership your credit card gets whacked the full amount on the 15th day.

I have his (Carter) book ordered and will read as one of you suggested - thanks.

I'm new to this. The Tradestation account is being funded today so I'll have access to the demo platform and I plan to buy the TTM indicators even though they are apparently largely available for free on the TS website it would take me months to figure it out and it's worth the money (to me) to get up and running more quickly.

I watch their videos each day and consider them helpful.

The thing is - there's a few other decent looking outfits too. Puretick gets (some) good press. There're people who like Traders International too. Universally though - it seems that people prefer to slam than praise so praise is pretty scarce while the slams abound.

I'll post back here in a week or so with my observations from the TTM trial.

Thanks all for your comments and good trading.

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

How's your TTM trial going? When you mentioned that you are funding a Tradestation account, do you mean you're paying for the software from them, or that you're also trading through them. If it's the latter you might want to check out Infinity brokers as TS has a bit of a reputation for bad fills and poor customer service - for instance if your computer goes down and you need to call the broker to scratch the trade then TS will sometimes take a long time to answer the phone, whereas Infinity will answer immediately. Personally, I'd only use TS as a broker if I was running a second account to trade the gap trade or opening range breakout trades - not as a scalping account.

I checked out a number of different trading rooms before I decided on Puretick (speaking of the TTM videos, check out this video as a great introduction as to what it means to be a full time trader: http://puretick.com/video/thetruth/ watch it in Firefox because in IE it sometimes has weird chipmunk noises). Personally (and here I am just adding to the negative info on forums about trading rooms!), I'd steer clear of Traders International - a friend of a friend joined them about 4 months ago and has now left them ($7000 poorer) - he didn't think the trade signals were any good. I think it's a good idea to trial a few different rooms like TTM and Puretick before deciding who will teach you (something TI don't offer to my knowledge). Having just been negative about TI, I'd suggest people actually ignore a lot of the negative sentiment out there about some of the trading rooms. There's one big forum in particular that has so much rubbish on it it's not funny. Take a trial for a few bucks and decide for yourself that's my motto - what do you have to lose?

Lastly, I don't agree that it's weird for traders to set up a trading room to teach people. The best traders in the world all learned from a mentor. For instance, Alex Wasilewski, the co-founder and head trader at Puretick, was trained partly by John Carter and Hubert Senters of TTM, and also by Linda Raschke and Mark Fisher. Likewise, those people all had mentors. So, it seems obvious to take that successful learning system and provide it to others. They don't have some magic system that they should be keeping to themselves - there is NO holy grail system out there. These successful traders all use very similar systems which are widely known. It is teaching the discipline of staying out of the market and money management that is the holy grail.

 

[Fl-Kiwi]

Hello,

To answer a couple of questions.

The trial requires that you sign up and give your credit card info but they only charge $5 initially. If you don't cancel within 14 days they charge the balance to the card - up to about $500US depending on what options you choose. It makes sense to sign up for everything because then you have access to everything for 14 days and if cancel it's the same result because it only costs $5.

As for how it's going. Well, this is day 7 out 10 trading days in the trial. Despite the frequent comments about how good they are at "selling" the room I haven't really found that to be the case. It's more like I've sneaked into a private club of experienced traders and so long as I'm quiet I'll be allowed to stay.

There's no "new member" program, or "how to get started" anything. It's a total sink or swim scenario. Perhaps that's not a bad thing because this certainly isn't for the lazy or the faint of heart. That being said I have spent dozens of hours going over their web site, watching videos and reading forum posts.

To be fair - they've been quite responsive the occasional question I've posted during the on line day - but being so new to it all I don't even know what I don't know - therefore I don't have much in the way of qualified questions.

They do call trades out all the time though. If you were quick enough you could simply trade along with them. They trade many different instruments though. Of the e-minis it's mainly YM, but they're also trading corn, soybeans, gold, potash, etc. It's pretty hectic.

Imagine trying to learn how to be a brain surgeon just by watching a couple of weeks of surgery over the shoulder. That's about the feel of it.

From what I have observed though, and the interaction between the experienced traders and the presenters (Senters and Carter) I think the two guys are sincere and competent. With time and a bit of luck it will probably be possible to assemble sufficient knowledge to take advantage of their experience.

The custom indicators they use (that are apparently mostly available on Trade Station related sites if you know where to look for them) seem to be good. They certainly follow their own system and their own rules without much deviation at all.

Yes - I am using TS for the execution platform. This is a good example of how they let the new guys down. After a couple of days in the room I was able to figure out they were using something called Trade Station. I told you I was completely new. I had not heard of it before. So I set about opening an account with them. Takes several days to get it opened and money deposited. They do not charge for the software but you have to drop cash in the account of course - $5000 min for futures.

Once I got it installed and started trying to figure out how to use the order entry software I realized that it looked different to what they use in the room. So, I asked a question in the room and was told they don't use TS for orders because it's too slow and various other complaints. They use a variety of other platforms, Strategy Runner, Infinity, and so on.

It's really annoying. They should have a link to a new user info page where they layout the basics so that the first 10 hours of material doesn't take 100 to discover like it has with me.

The nightly live trade videos are helpful and eventually you can start to piece things together.

Overall - I remain cautiously optimistic and will probably pay up for the first month to give this a decent shot. They certainly have their shortfalls when it comes to getting new users up and running. I expect they all do. These guys at least (until proven otherwise) have met my requirements for being honest and competent. The rest will just be hard work.

Rockhoundnz - thanks for posting that link. It's a great video.

I'll get back with more info as things develop.

Thanks all for your thoughts - Geoff

 

[Mike Of Hobart]

This is a bit naughty of me posting this but i subscribe to TTM's excellent newletter. Carter posted this live trade yesterday. As my first experience of live trading it blew me away. Having read his book I understood all the concepts but to see it all in action was something else. The discipline of the guy to not take profits even when the ES ALMOST hits his third target is amazing.

http://www.tradethemarkets.com/public/2220.cfm

Just thought it might be of interest to anyone considering the live trading room subscriptions.



btw I work in internet advertising. If there were 200 people logged in for that trade, then there are probably 1000+ monthly subscribers. That is what makes it profitable or should I say VERY profitable. The internet is full of people who are altruistic and entrepreneurial at the same time. Be suspicious of the quality of his tools by all means but I wouldn't be too concerned about any ulterior motives.

 

[Trembling Hand]

The discipline of the guy to not take profits even when the ES ALMOST hits his third target is amazing.

Why? Exactly what is so amazing. That is what a profit target is, a target.

If anyone does waste 20 min like I did watching this vid I warn you to not think having a stop double your profit is correct trading. Complete rubbish!!

If you get stopped just three times you are going to need 6 perfect trades to get back to break even. Rubbish. Scalpers that survive don't trade like that!!

Expectancy = (Probability of Win * Average Win) - (Probability of Loss * Average Loss)

You need a win loss ratio around 70% just to break even.

btw I work in internet advertising. If there were 200 people logged in for that trade, then there are probably 1000+ monthly subscribers. That is what makes it profitable or should I say VERY profitable.

With expectancy like that no wounder his flogging gumpf rather than trading!!

 

[MRC & Co]

While I think Mastering the Trade by Carter is one of the best books I have ever read on trading, which teaches most things you need to know about trading in a straightforward, easy to follow, logical way, the width of the stops was the only thing that got me.

For example, he places upto a 1.5:1 risk reward to fade the opening gap, whereas I think a 0.5/1 risk reward is appropriate.

But apparently Carter and his partner have taught many great traders their art, so he must be doing something right!

 

[Mike Of Hobart]

Why? Exactly what is so amazing. That is what a profit target is, a target.

Well, it was amazing to me as a complete n00b.

If anyone does waste 20 min like I did watching this vid I warn you to not think having a stop double your profit is correct trading. Complete rubbish!!

If you get stopped just three times you are going to need 6 perfect trades to get back to break even. Rubbish. Scalpers that survive don't trade like that!!

Can you explain that to me? Would he be better off trading without any stops? My assumption is that his indicators suggest he was unlikely to get stopped out. Do you think a different exit signal would be better? Go easy on me - I'm new here!

Sorry I wasted 20 minutes of your life on that vid. Just thought it was relevant to the thread.

 

[dovetree]

Hi Mike,
I think trembling Hand is a "spi trader", only someone who likes gambling trades the spi. Professional traders tend to trade the bigger markets like currencies or the US indices.

Whilst I don't use any of their methods, I do know JC and HS and can tell you they are very good traders.

 

[MRC & Co]

Video is defniately relevant to the thread. Thx Mike.

TH is simply stating that when he executes his trades, if his stops are generally 2:1 risk reward, then he has to get two trades right for everyone he gets wrong just to breakeven.

This simply means if his target is to earn 10 ES (mini S&P) points, and his stops are 20 ES points, then he must get 3/4 right to earn a profit.

While indicators can definately help and mean his stops are less likely to be hit, a 75% win factor is unlikely.

Cheers

Dovetree, you are completely wrong. Professional traders are seen in all types of markets where there is enough liquidity for the individual. JC and HS who you apparently know are perfect examples, they generally trade mini contracts, not the S&P itself. Then there are those who make their money simply trading NASDAQ stocks.

 

[Mike Of Hobart]

TH is simply stating that when he executes his trades, if his stops are generally 2:1 risk reward, then he has to get two trades right for everyone he gets wrong just to breakeven.

This simply means if his target is to earn 10 ES (mini S&P) points, and his stops are 20 ES points, then he must get 3/4 right to earn a profit.

While indicators can definately help and mean his stops are less likely to be hit, a 75% win factor is unlikely.

That makes perfect sense. One thing he does stress in the video is to not place too tight a stop so you don't get shaken out of the trade. I think he does trail stops in some setups but I'm not sure why he doesn't in this one.