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- 27 December 2010
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Yes I know a couple of traders personally that have been successful over a 10yr+ period. There is also at least one ASF poster that made the transition from trader to investor after enough success. My point being that there are plenty of traders out there that are doing better than 'just getting by', at least in my own opinion.You know them personally and seen the results/rewards of their successful trading? and that's all they do? Or know some people on the internet who say that's what they do? Hmm I would say 5 - 10 years, more like 10 though.
4. Some comments suggest that AI/ML is unnecessary -- that simple techniques work.
I was a senior research analyst at a commodity trading company (a hedge fund) in the 1990s. The company had been one of the pioneers in development and use of trend-following quantitative systems. Their specialty was breakouts -- buy new highs and other "turtle-like" techniques. We watched, literally day by day, as those techniques stopped working. In my opinion, they will never work again. Trends are shorter in duration and price movement. Systems that take counter-trend positions are quicker to fade the trends, breaking them into smaller pieces which are less easily identified and less profitable. That company returned all investor money and ceased operation.
But assume that some simple indicator does work today. Take Stephen Simmons comment about J. P. Morgan employing thousands of individuals to develop trading systems as literal and think through the implications. We know from many articles that research personnel are highly educated -- one-third or more have PhD degrees in scientific disciplines -- and highly compensated -- say $100,000 base salary on average. 1000 people at $100,000 per year is an annual salary cost of $100,000,000. Add office space, support staff, benefits, etc and the sum grows. Morgan will not build those departments and pay those costs unless the trading results are adequate to fund them.
My posting was intended to show the extent to which artificial intelligence and machine learning is being used by large trading houses. I am surprised by the messages posted in response. They cover a wide range, and many imply denial. Let me make a few comments.
4. Some comments suggest that AI/ML is unnecessary -- that simple techniques work.
I was a senior research analyst at a commodity trading company (a hedge fund) in the 1990s. The company had been one of the pioneers in development and use of trend-following quantitative systems. Their specialty was breakouts -- buy new highs and other "turtle-like" techniques. We watched, literally day by day, as those techniques stopped working. In my opinion, they will never work again. Trends are shorter in duration and price movement. Systems that take counter-trend positions are quicker to fade the trends, breaking them into smaller pieces which are less easily identified and less profitable. That company returned all investor money and ceased operation.
We know from many articles that research personnel are highly educated -- one-third or more have PhD degrees in scientific disciplines -- and highly compensated -- say $100,000 base salary on average. 1000 people at $100,000 per year is an annual salary cost of $100,000,000. Add office space, support staff, benefits, etc and the sum grows. Morgan will not build those departments and pay those costs unless the trading results are adequate to fund them.
A trading company does not need 1000 people and a department budget of several hundred million dollars to tell them to buy when the 5 day moving average rises up through the 20 day moving average.
Oh my have you really thought about this?
Buffett BUYS COMPANIES---all of the company.
Then transforms them and if you think he does this WITHOUT the input of a team of Quants then think again!
The world is run by Quants.
Aerospace
Aeronautics
Medicine
Technology
Engineering
Climate control and the lack of it
Mining
Energy production
Military
FINANCE
The point Howard (Captain Cook) is making is that all of those looking out at the vast sea in front of them
can rest assured that the world isn't flat and he knows as unlike those staring out at the sea in front of them
he has been there --- that's where he lives---he sails it.
Examples are all around you.
The problem is most are so blind they cannot see.
Just because you cant see it doesn't mean its not there doing exactly what its supposed to do for exactly the reason its supposed to and for exactly the people its meant to serve.
Ever been on a plane?
Seen a Bank make 10 Billion?
Driven over a bridge?
Heard of the name Zuckerberg?
Seen the growth of google?
Watched an invasion?
Yeh Quants rule the world.
The richest men in the world are surrounded by Quants
They employ 1000s of them.
----and pretty soon you'll be able to join them---even you Thingamiggy
There is a vast wave of Howard Bandies on the horizon.
Oh my have you really thought about this?
Supply/demand and sentiment drive prices, not computer programs.
To the contrary again. I understand the I.T. era (in trading - data mining for patterns if you like) is here but the same conditions that drive prices have not changed. Trading a million times per day on a nano second turn around doesn't appeal to me.Wysi
How is it your missing the whole point here.
To the contrary again. I understand the I.T. era (in trading - data mining for patterns if you like) is here but the same conditions that drive prices have not changed. Trading a million times per day on a nano second turn around doesn't appeal to me.
No please elaborate. An EOD trade example maybe.Ok.
Its not about that either.
Ill leave it there.
Sam
Petes proven it can be done
What do you need a room full of people
Trading for 10 yrs plus all with audited
Results in profit.
You need capital more than most think if you
Want to trade for a living.
You need application
You need to be business orientated---not for everyone.
You need to be different.
I've met you
Why don't you trade for a second income as we discussed?
I showed you how to do it and offered help.----?
I'm just yet to see a successful trader maintain that success over a long period without turning to investing, I think investing is a different story because some people can get on a good thing as far as a company goes etc. Maybe the trader doesn't need to be successful over a long time because he made so much in the short term
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