ThinkOrSwim closing all Australian accounts: Where to now?

Hey Azza, awesome to hear from someone who knows what I'm on about when I mention the name Don Kaufman!

Neil Swanson from IB was pretty helpful and assures me that IB are the best in the business. I thought I was just getting a sales pitch over the phone so I sent him a pretty detailed email describing exactly what it is we need along with photos attached and he took the time to read it and assure me that the IB platform could do what we need.

I'm eager to set up an account and give it a go.

If anyone else is keen shoot Neil Swanson at IB brokers an email if you have any q's nswanson@interactivebrokers.com

Or make sure to put his name in the application where it asks how you heard of IB. He did take the time out to understand what it is we need.

Anyways, Onward and upward!

Richard Dale said:

Setup a LLC in USA. Not sure about ToS's rules, but they may then classify you as a professional.

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LLC is no go. This is my response from TOS. This is a bizarre definition of residency as the LLC would legally be a US resident. The residency of the trustee (authorized person) is not relevant.

I just wanted to follow-up with you quickly regarding your inquiry. Unfortunately, we will be unable to accept an account that is operated by an Australian resident, even if the business account itself is incorporated in the US. Both the entity registration and the authorized individuals must be residents of a country that is not restricted. I apologize for any confusion, but you would not be able to open such an account if you reside in Australia.

Re: Getting Booted From Thinkorswim account

ftw129 said:

I need is to monitor my greek position over my entire inventory and add or close individual legs when necessary but also to be able to analyze my moves before I make them.

For anyone out there reading this if you have found anything that comes close I'd be eternally grateful if you shared it with us!

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Peter Hoadley's comprehensive options package http://www.hoadley.net/options/develtoolsaddin.htm#quotes integrates "seamlessly" with Interactive Brokers' data stream http://www.hoadley.net/options/develtoolsIBLanding.htm

May be of some interest or help to you.

Thank you Artist. I'll check that out when my account with IB is open.

Thanks for your help

Re: Getting Booted From Thinkorswim account

artist said:

Peter Hoadley's comprehensive options package http://www.hoadley.net/options/develtoolsaddin.htm#quotes integrates "seamlessly" with Interactive Brokers' data stream http://www.hoadley.net/options/develtoolsIBLanding.htm

May be of some interest or help to you.

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Actually I couldn't help but watch a few of the demo's and I'm pretty excited that this may be very close to what I'm looking for!

Artist, do you use this tool yourself?

Re: Getting Booted From Thinkorswim account

ftw129 said:

Actually I couldn't help but watch a few of the demo's and I'm pretty excited that this may be very close to what I'm looking for!

Artist, do you use this tool yourself?

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Yes, in the past I have but not for some years as I moved away from options trading. I found it excellent then, and it looks even better now with newer technologies employed and he has done a lot more development on the various modules. As it happens, I will begin trading options again in the next few weeks as a supplement to how I trade now, and I will be subscribing once more and linking to IB.

Only one thing makes me cautious of the Hoadley tool, and that is that, as far as I can discern (and I may be wrong here), he runs a one-man business. What happens to the software if/when he can't manage the show, I don't know. I haven't enquired of him about this matter, so my caution may be misplaced.

I don't know if you found his FAQ page (http://www.hoadley.net/options/develtoolsFAQs.htm)
where the Question "Why would I ever need to use both the Options Strategy Evaluation Tool and the Open Positions Manager?" (under the green heading "Open Positions Manager") addresses your twin needs as described by you when you wrote "all I need is to monitor my greek position over my entire inventory and add or close individual legs when necessary but also to be able to analyze my moves before I make them."

I hope you have found a product which eases the distress you have been subjected to.

Artist, thank you!

I won't be sure if this is exactly what I'm looking for until my account is open with IB, but it sure does sound very promising! All I have to do is learn how to use it..

Once again, many thanks for your help

I rang ThinkOrSwim

I rang ThinkOrSwim last night.

They said my login will still be active (i.e. can still access the TOS platform, charts etc) after the money is withdrawn by the 3rd Dec deadline, BUT the data will be DELAYED like a PaperMoney account.

I asked if it was possible to to have a non-Delayed PaperMoney account, perhaps with a monthly fee to cover the data feed costs.

They said no, but they put forward my request to their management.

Got the impression it might happen if enough people request it.

Hi Yazz, ToS are really getting on my nerves! I bet they will say no to your request. IMO don't pay them a single cent. They should continue to provide real time quotes free of charge. That's a joke,delayed quotes! After kicking us Aussies so abruptly and rudely to the curb, providing real time quotes is the least they can do. Very disappointed in them. Looking forward to getting onto live chat with them on Monday!

ThinkOrSwim told me the PaperMoney account data delay is "about 20 minutes".

I have read elsewhere that not everything is delayed. Some people are saying that options, futures, order books etc are delayed, but some stock charts and quotes aren't.

I guess we'll find out soon.

PaperMoney accounts linked to funded accounts don't have this delay.

Yeah crap that's no good!

On the other hand, the most important thing is that we still have access to the Swimlessons with DK. There's no getting around the fact that we will need to learn to trade on a new platform.

If there's enough of us out there, trying new platforms and asking the right questions, I'm confident that we will come up with something

It's hard to get excited about using another platform. Thinkorswim was untouchable for the competition PERIOD, but many thanks to TD for screwing that all up for the serious option traders in Australia. Yup you guessed it I am still dirty about it even after this long. I can't understand why there isn't a single company that hasn't produced something similar to TOS as like the other brokers and their similar platforms.

Setting up an LLC in the US is actually fairly easy to do and inexpensive, you only need to spend a few days in Google to discover a lot of information on this topic.

IT Guru, saying what you did gave me a good laugh, thanks... a nice bit of needed cheer in this gloomy time. 'I learnt the optionetics way".... )))) *still laughing*

ftw129 be sure you understand all of IB's (hidden)charges before you get excited as there is more than just their commissions.

InteractiveOptns said:

ftw129 be sure you understand all of IB's (hidden)charges before you get excited as there is more than just their commissions.

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such as?

Trembling Hand said:

such as?

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http://individuals.interactivebrokers.com/en/p.php?f=otherFees

Depends on the exchange, but they charge various fees for an option order placement/cancellation.

yazz said:

http://individuals.interactivebrokers.com/en/p.php?f=otherFees

Depends on the exchange, but they charge various fees for an option order placement/cancellation.

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Overall it's a much better deal than paying a fixed rate and having a firm sell your order flow.

Note, you also get the exchange rebates if you provide liquidity so can end up with a net credit. In addition, no fees for exercise/assignment.

Guys.....no go....

I just received an email from Ameritrade at 7:33am today:-

Dear Valued Client,

Please accept our apologies. Last Friday, we sent you an email regarding our recent business decision and its impact on your account. We didn't realize until it was too late, but due to an unfortunate system error you received the incorrect email. We understand the confusion this may cause, and we want to clear it up for you now.

Here is what you need to know:

A new business policy has been implemented that may impact your TD Ameritrade account. After careful consideration, we have made a business decision to no longer offer brokerage services to clients located in certain foreign countries. The current address we have on file for you indicates that you reside in one of these identified foreign countries.

Here is what this means for you:

For now, we've had to limit your account to liquidating (closing) transactions only, meaning that you will not be able to purchase new securities or make deposits into the account. Any opening orders (orders to establish new positions) will be canceled. Once we confirm your address, one of two things can occur:


If the current address we have on file for you is correct, we won't be able to maintain your account after October 30, 2012. You will need to take steps to close your account.


If you no longer reside in the country currently listed on your account, this policy may not impact you. We may be able to restore full trading to the account and continue our business relationship.


Here is what you need to do by October 30, 2012:

Please take action as soon as possible so we can determine if we can continue to provide you with full brokerage services. Follow the appropriate steps below:


Step 1: Verify your physical and mailing addresses on file.
Log in to your account at tdameritrade.com and click "My Profile" (under Home), then select the "Personal Information" tab to ensure our records correctly reflect your most current address.


Step 2: Once you have verified your address information, please take the appropriate action below:
If the addresses currently listed on your account are not correct:

This business policy may not apply to you, and we may be able to continue to support your account. Please update your addresses online and call us as soon as possible at 800-669-3900, or at 800-368-3668 if you are calling from outside the United States.


If the addresses currently listed on your account are correct:

Unfortunately, this new business policy applies to you, and you will need to take action to close your account by October 30, 2012. You can accomplish this in one of two ways:


Transfer Your Account to another firm: Open an account with the receiving firm, and then have that firm initiate the transfer.

or


Liquidate Your Account: Sell all your securities, and request a check or wire transfer for the sale proceeds by logging in to your account and clicking "Deposit/Withdraw" (under Accounts).


Important: If you have not initiated the account transfer or liquidation process by October 30, 2012, we will need to liquidate your account for you. We will then mail a check for your account balance to your address of record.

simply appalling,,

I think they just screwing australians.. no other country people are screaming..

what a trouble to learn a platform only to find out.. they going to close down on Australians..

bugger

They're obviously doing it because the administrative cost of complying with the Australian tax laws etc, isn't worth it to them given. It's just a business decision.

Anyway, the platform might still be useful for US stock traders, because the quotes on those instruments may not be delayed on the PaperMoney accounts.

Interactive Brokers is an excellent alternative for Australian customers affected by the TOS force closure. While we are not privy to the TOS timeline, we will do everything possible to assist customers transferring under a deadline. My contact details are below, and I'd be happy to answer any queries you have on our services and opening a new account. I also included information on our costs, and options trading functionality. We will do everything under local regulatory rules to fast track account openings for affected customers.

Interactive Brokers - US and Australian stock & options rates:
Options
- US options from USD 1 per trade (0.70 per contract)
- Australian options from AUD 2 per trade (0.30 per contract)
Stocks
- US stock from USD 1 per trade (0.005 cents per share)
- Aus stock from AUD 6 a trade (0.08% of trade value)

Below is the link to our 'Options Trader' functionality, scroll to bottom of page to see the 'integrated Options Tools' you can also view webinars, briefs etc from this section of the website.

Options Trader: http://individuals.interactivebroke...highlights/PDF-OptionTrader.php?ib_entity=llc


Regards,

Neil Swanson
Interactive Brokers LLC
Tel: + 61 (2) 8093 7301
nswanson@interactivebrokers.com
www.interactivebrokers.com

w0w0w0 said:

simply appalling,,

I think they just screwing australians.. no other country people are screaming..

what a trouble to learn a platform only to find out.. they going to close down on Australians..

bugger

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Hi all,

I have only just been made aware of this thread. I am a long time TOS customer -around 8 years, and like everyone here am a bit miffed with the TDA decision. I do know the decision was 100% a regulatory one made by their legal team. Primarily it was to do with global money laundering risks, though some less important issues were involved. I believe Singapore is the only country not to be shut out by TDA. However, life goes on and as a full time options trader I assure you there will be like after TOS, even though their platform is second to none. As far as I know OX and IB are the only two US firms licensed to do business in Australia. IB would be my pick.
Whilst TOS is a seamless, intuitive platform it is important not to get too hung up on the platform itself. Remember you really only need the Greeks to trade. Black Scholes is really a price distribution model and once you understand probability and standard deviation, you have all the information required to be a successful options trader and you can do it on any platform.