The transition to Futures trading

dlineinvestor · 14 October 2014

Pav,
I know what you mean but "ultimately it's trade what you see"
Even if it's a tiny position where you don't even care.
I've gained 29 points my short 5208 , this is not a gloat by any means just an exercise of believing in your analysis and thus your self. After a while it starts to become part of your psyche and that's where a trader needs to be.
I will add I have a long way to go in controlling those emotions that trading houses rely on so much for their massive income !
Cheers,

fiftyeight · 15 October 2014

Didn't trade last night, but sitting back and watching I think I seen a few of the traps I would of fell in to. I had a long bias but would of been stopped out a few times and over traded. A night to print off and take some free lessons.

pavilion103 · 15 October 2014

SPI

5227 short

pavilion103 · 15 October 2014

Short x2 FTSE

6335, 6331

Exited first one for 45 points.

Second one running near BE.

Wanted to keep both going, but my fault for not taking a 3rd. The rule is exit the 1st one around a good support area once 30-40 up... I'll stick to it.

One going on the SPI also.

Hoping for a big pay day. But could end up with the 40 which isn't too bad.

dlineinvestor · 15 October 2014

Good work Pavilion ... I some how managed 600 out of this mess ... lol, tired now done for the eve.
May have been more a!! than cla!!

pavilion103 · 16 October 2014

Woah. DOW got down about 350 points near open!!!

I'm not greedy. I'm taking my profits and running.

1st contract = 40
2nd contract = 110

SPI contract = 50

All closed out.

fiftyeight · 16 October 2014

Great work PAV

I thought you would of left both open as position trades, seems like a good place to be Short?

pavilion103 · 16 October 2014

fiftyeight said:
Great work PAV I thought you would of left both open as position trades, seems like a good place to be Short?

Gee it's a tough call. Take $4K off the table or leave it open in an already extended move. I guess this could represent the next phase of the move down. I've been waiting for it to halt but it hasn't.

I'll try and get on again tonight.

Any reasons why the SPI didn't fall much? Was expecting a bigger move with the US.

Volatility crazy on the US. Can't believe it fell beyond 450 after rebounding from the initial fall.

pavilion103 · 16 October 2014

This highlights the need for 3 contracts for me.

Need more flexibility to feel comfortable finding a balance between taking profit and letting it run.

1 @ 30/40
1 @ close the next morning
1 @ letting it run

That would make me feel happier.

fiftyeight · 16 October 2014

Haha yeah a very tough call. I think they all will be at this stage. Leaving that much on the table is a tough one. I think I would done something stupid like move my stop, get stopped out giving a bunch back but not leaving it wide enough to get set for a position trade.

Yeah the SPI seems to be holding up wellish, I guess I have not watched long enough but does that mean when it goes its going to go with bang. So if you can get set in a spot like last night in recent highs it is worth holding on to?

fiftyeight · 16 October 2014

pavilion103 said:
This highlights the need for 3 contracts for me.

Need more flexibility to feel comfortable finding a balance between taking profit and letting it run.

1 @ 30/40
1 @ close the next morning
1 @ letting it run

That would make me feel happier.

+1

Seems like the way forward to me.

fiftyeight · 16 October 2014

Something I have been pondering, and has come up while I have been watching the SPI.

Something is in a well defined range and for what ever reason you really want to enter, lets assume long and its a 10 point range but your target risk is only 5 points.

You can place a buy stop above this to capture it when it "breaks" out, however your stop loss should probably be below the recent range, which means you now have a stop loss of lets say 14 points.

You could buy stop on the break, with a 5 point risk and accept it may take a few goes to get set or just have one crack and if you get lucky good.

You could buy limit at the lower end of the range so you stop loss is within your target risk and below recent range

Or what I feel the answer is, you could just not take the trade???

pavilion103 · 16 October 2014

Back in the SPI where I exited yesterday. Wanted to see if it would fail another test then resume.

kid hustlr · 16 October 2014

fiftyeight said:
Something I have been pondering, and has come up while I have been watching the SPI.

Something is in a well defined range and for what ever reason you really want to enter, lets assume long and its a 10 point range but your target risk is only 5 points.

You can place a buy stop above this to capture it when it "breaks" out, however your stop loss should probably be below the recent range, which means you now have a stop loss of lets say 14 points.

You could buy stop on the break, with a 5 point risk and accept it may take a few goes to get set or just have one crack and if you get lucky good.

You could buy limit at the lower end of the range so you stop loss is within your target risk and below recent range

Or what I feel the answer is, you could just not take the trade???

58,

I pondered this myself over the past week or 2. with increased volatility perceived stops are now very wide at times and make entering difficult unless you've got pav's balls of steel. I did have a bit of an epiphany last night though, will try to give a couple of examples on the weekend. TH has spoken before about breakout trading futures being amateur and I think he's right. Examples on the weekend if I can find the time.

Take it with a grain of salt mind you I haven't made any money the last 2 weeks.

tech/a · 16 October 2014

kid hustlr said:
58,

I pondered this myself over the past week or 2. with increased volatility perceived stops are now very wide at times and make entering difficult unless you've got pav's balls of steel. I did have a bit of an epiphany last night though, will try to give a couple of examples on the weekend. TH has spoken before about breakout trading futures being amateur and I think he's right. Examples on the weekend if I can find the time.

Take it with a grain of salt mind you I haven't made any money the last 2 weeks.

I don't know about that.
One thing Ive worked with PAV on is bring your stop the B/E as quick as practical.
Sure youll get stopped out often and I know PAV has been frustrated initially with what he perceived as
losses that he could have had as gains had he had a wider stop.

But in the end his R/R is massive due to exactly the point Ive been making for ages---stops at B/E keep you on the right side of a trade.
You want to be there often and for as long as you can.

So what if you have 20 B/E losses to 2 Whopping gains!

You'll always be in the game and you wont ever be worried about getting stuck in a long term R/R killing D/Down.

On the Highlighted comment.
Every single decent move comes from a breakout!
Show me where they don't.
How are you going to get a big move without a breakout from something.

Sure you'll get whipsawed but that's what B/E trades are about.

Sure you can do 100 trades of 2-5 ticks and not worry about breakouts.
In a single session.

Trembling Hand · 16 October 2014

Breakout buy zone for me is in the blue. Not the Red

tech/a · 16 October 2014

Trembling Hand said:
Breakout buy zone for me is in the blue. Not the Red

View attachment 59865

Yes and that's a fair enough setup/s
I admit less risk and opportunity to get the B/E as well.

But also the one minute chart of the other day---as its happening is pretty hard to ignore.
I see it often on the DAX.
Its pretty easy (When your there watching it) To pick up 20+ ticks in minutes.

This chart you've just put up looks like its going to go.
My buy would be 22942
initial stop 22985
and move to B/E at around 22952
Without watching it about 60-80 ticks in it.

avion · 16 October 2014

tech/a said:
My buy would be 22942
initial stop 22985
and move to B/E at around 22952
Without watching it about 60-80 ticks in it.

Tech, do you mean 'initial target' or you got the number wrong...?

tech/a · 16 October 2014

avion said:
Tech, do you mean 'initial target' or you got the number wrong...?

Ooops
22885

dlineinvestor · 16 October 2014

tech/a said:
I don't know about that.
One thing Ive worked with PAV on is bring your stop the B/E as quick as practical.
Sure youll get stopped out often and I know PAV has been frustrated initially with what he perceived as
losses that he could have had as gains had he had a wider stop.

But in the end his R/R is massive due to exactly the point Ive been making for ages---stops at B/E keep you on the right side of a trade.
You want to be there often and for as long as you can.

So what if you have 20 B/E losses to 2 Whopping gains!

You'll always be in the game and you wont ever be worried about getting stuck in a long term R/R killing D/Down.

On the Highlighted comment.
Every single decent move comes from a breakout!
Show me where they don't.
How are you going to get a big move without a breakout from something.

Sure you'll get whipsawed but that's what B/E trades are about.

Sure you can do 100 trades of 2-5 ticks and not worry about breakouts.
In a single session.

A good practise, some thing I will be mindful of. Thank's
Very hard to do especially on the DAX but then again it all depends on how valid your setup is.
Swinging is less work but you have to wait ... another thing most can't do.
Comes with maturing as a trader and a sign that your there or not

The transition to Futures trading

dlineinvestor

fiftyeight

pavilion103

pavilion103

dlineinvestor

Attachments

pavilion103

fiftyeight

pavilion103

pavilion103

fiftyeight

fiftyeight

fiftyeight

pavilion103

kid hustlr

tech/a

No Ordinary Duck

Trembling Hand

Can be found on the bid

tech/a

No Ordinary Duck

avion

tech/a

No Ordinary Duck

dlineinvestor

Similar threads

The transition to Futures trading

Attachments

No Ordinary Duck

Can be found on the bid

No Ordinary Duck

No Ordinary Duck

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency