The role of men in modern society

Julia · 11 August 2012

Bushman said:
yep i would much rather a firefighter sit next to my kids than say a women who is childless and has no experience with children. Also the message is so mixed. This guy would be a hero if he goes and saves a child from an inferno but when he steps on a plane he is a 'potential pedo'?

Also the thinking behind this is so flawed; I would suggest that statistically speaking there would no chance that a professional male who has never committed a sexual assualt against a minor would suddenly and opportunistically offend in an airplane.

It is so highly offensive and takes this 'all men are potential predators' myth to its extremes.

Ultimately we all bemoan the lack of community and human connection in our modern world. But how can you foster a sense of community when everyone demonstrates this irrational fear about 'strange' men.

Also what happens if the man was a male whose ethnicity was not 'anglo saxon' or if the man was homosexual? Would this then be seen as discriminatory?

Disgraceful ...

Bushman, I understand how offensive it seems, and sympathise entirely with the poor bloke who was so insensitively asked to move. The problem is not really with the policy per se, imo, but rather with the incompetence of the cabin crew, following the failure of the seating allocation system to discreetly ensure a female was sitting beside the children.

Isn't it reasonable for airlines to protect themselves against the remote possibility of something untoward occurring, as long as no one's feelings are hurt?
If you rock up to your flight and are allocated a seat between two other blokes, rather than beside two children, are you going to look round the plane and say to yourself :"oh goodness, there are two children over there with a woman sitting next to them who doesn't seem to be their mother: I wonder why I'm not allocated the woman's seat?"

No, of course you're not. Let's just allow the airlines to mitigate any potential problem as long as no one's feelings are hurt and chalk this one up to woeful incompetence on the part of Virgin on one occasion.
Hopefully the firefighter will be given a free flight somewhere and the apology due to him.

medicowallet · 11 August 2012

I am someone who has clearances in dealing with children.
I have dealings with children which by necessity are beyond what the ordinary person is permitted to do.

Would I be offended if a flight assistant asked me to move.. slightly.
Would I move without a concern.. certainly.

Why?

Because if MY children were unaccompanied on the flight, and I was entrusting the staff on the plane to provide them with a safe journey, I would expect them to do the same.

However, I recognise that the sex of the adult should NOT make a difference, but unfortunately, the probability is probably in the favour of females being safer.

Remember at the end of the day, if ONE child is assaulted or feels threatened on a plane, unaccompanied, then that is one too many.

MW

DB008 · 11 August 2012

**Update on OT**

Virgin review after 'pedophile' complaint - The Australian

VIRGIN Australia is rethinking its unaccompanied minors policy after a passenger claimed the airline treated him like a pedophile.

Johnny McGirr, a 33-year-old NSW firefighter, said he felt ashamed when a flight attendant asked him to move seats because men are banned from sitting next to unaccompanied children.

Two boys, who he estimated were under the age of 10, had been seated in his row on a flight from Brisbane to Sydney, forcing him to switch seats with a woman, he said on Friday.

"I was so embarrassed," Mr McGirr told ABC radio in Brisbane.

"My issue is that as men we can be policemen, and firemen, and teachers, and doctors and people that are trustworthy, but it seems that nowadays we're just assumed to be pedophiles or people who commit these crimes."

The incident happened back in April, but it ignited debate on social media when Mr McGirr wrote about it this week on a blog.

Virgin confirmed its policy of banning men but not women from sitting next to unaccompanied minors but said on Friday that the policy was now under review.

"Our intention is certainly not to discriminate in any way," the airline said in a statement.

A company spokesman said it was too early to say what the review will consist of or how long it will take.

tigerboi · 12 August 2012

medicowallet said:
Would I be offended if a flight assistant asked me to move.. slightly.
Would I move without a concern.. certainly.

not me at all i would of went absolutely ballastic...this man should take legal action asap...

Logique · 12 August 2012

Realistically,
who aside from their parents, actually wants to sit next to 8 year old kids on a plane?

I have no problem with the Virgin policy, if implemented discreetly and professionally, which is the issue here. Virgin aren't dictating the wider society, they're just responding to the world as it is.

However that said, If I managed Virgin Airlines, I'd call in the cabin crew and ticketing staff to explain themselves, and it better be good if they want to keep their jobs.

There is no excuse for the way that firefighter was treated. At the very least, he deserves an apology and restitution from Virgin. Free flights for a year sounds about right.

Logique · 12 August 2012

These photos of her son and friends, were exhibited by a mother. 12 year old boys. No problem says the Fairfax press.

Body of work sidesteps taboos -SMH Aug 12 2012
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/art-and-design/body-of-work-sidesteps-taboos-20120811-2415p.html

When Ella Dreyfus exhibited photos of her son and members of his soccer team in 2005, she was surprised that some viewers were affronted by the images of 12-year-old boys naked from the chest up..

medicowallet · 12 August 2012

tigerboi said:
not me at all i would of went absolutely ballastic...this man should take legal action asap...

Hence why it is not suitable for someone of your calibre to sit next to my kids.

What a great example that would be setting... quality

MW

I have no problem with you taking legal action, but to fire up is immature and irresponsible.

DB008 · 12 August 2012

You can't 'blow up/get aggressive' on a plane as you'll probably be escorted off and have the police question you.

tigerboi · 13 August 2012

medicowallet said:
Hence why it is not suitable for someone of your calibre to sit next to my kids.

What a great example that would be setting... quality

MW

I have no problem with you taking legal action, but to fire up is immature and irresponsible.

calibre yeah i know yours...just "slightly & certainly" when someone makes the worst inference against any man

so all you do is sure ah ok...go ahead HUMILIATE ME IN FRONT OF ALL THE PASSENGERS AS TOO SUSPECT

TO SIT BESIDE 2 BOYS...sorry unlike you i wouldnt accept the total humiliation especially when ive done nothing wrong... but you go right ahead put your head down & hide...bet you got bashed up at school too...

tell you whats not suitable ...not showing any backbone for yourself...poor example to your kids id say NOT

STICKING UP FOR YOURSELF...

MY CALIBRE i know its too much for someone of your small calibre...whats it like to be spineless??

Tink · 13 August 2012

Sadly, its the way of the world at the moment, and every day a new case is rearing its ugly head, aka Hey Dad.
I do understand why they have these policies, but I think they should have handled it better.
Rather than taking it personally, he should have asked for an explanation.

Very true MW, one case is one too many.

moXJO · 13 August 2012

medicowallet said:
I am someone who has clearances in dealing with children.
I have dealings with children which by necessity are beyond what the ordinary person is permitted to do.

Would I be offended if a flight assistant asked me to move.. slightly.
Would I move without a concern.. certainly.

Why?

Because if MY children were unaccompanied on the flight, and I was entrusting the staff on the plane to provide them with a safe journey, I would expect them to do the same.

However, I recognise that the sex of the adult should NOT make a difference, but unfortunately, the probability is probably in the favour of females being safer.

Remember at the end of the day, if ONE child is assaulted or feels threatened on a plane, unaccompanied, then that is one too many.

MW

So by your theory I should suspect you of being a pedo due to being a man.

gav · 13 August 2012

medicowallet said:
Remember at the end of the day, if ONE child is assaulted or feels threatened on a plane, unaccompanied, then that is one too many.

MW

And if someone OTHER THAN A MAN that assaults the child or makes them feel threatened?

[video=youtube_share;Qh2sWSVRrmo]http://youtu.be/Qh2sWSVRrmo[/video]

Bushman · 13 August 2012

Tink said:
Very true MW, one case is one too many.

Off course this is the case. Nobody on this forum would disagree.

But in my view making a law abiding member of society feel like a 'pedo' simply because of their gender is an equal travesty. Unless there is clear statistical evidence that a previously law abiding individual would opportunisitically assualt a child on an airplane, then it is ridiculous to have moved the fireman. It is profiling and risk managment gone mad and it is resulting in a general erosion of a male's right (not to be humiliated, to the presumption of innocence etc) due to his gender alone!

Also, where does child protection stop? What about car accidents and the awful and ongoing impacts on children? Where is the outcry, the moves not to have a child in a car as they could be injured or killed? There is not outcry because there is no hysteria.

For those thinking Qantas is any better, there is a story out now about a male nurse who was treated the same way.

xyzedarteerf · 13 August 2012

this man should have agreed only if he was upgraded to Business Class and comp with unlimited refreshments.

JTLP · 13 August 2012

Simple - move the minors to a safer seat - and make up some lie about a better view - better ride or something

tinhat · 13 August 2012

JTLP said:
Simple - move the minors to a safer seat - and make up some lie about a better view - better ride or something

Alternatively, stow unaccompanied minors in the cargo hold for their own safety.

wayneL · 13 August 2012

Perhaps we should remove any possible interaction between adult males and unaccompanied children? Would the alarmists be happy with that?

This would include teachers, doctors/male nurses, relatives (actually the most likely source of abuse), sports coaches, taxi drivers, bus drivers, your children's friend's parents... and the father FFS!!!

Of course one child abused is one child too many, but creating a dysfunctional dystopia in an attempt to remove risk... in the most absurdly improbable situations such as a crowded airliner is a bridge too f###ing far.

This is an outrage IMNTBCHO!

doctorj · 13 August 2012

So they have a policy of not allowing men to sit next to unaccompanied minors. I wonder if they discriminate on gender in other aspects? For example, male cabin crew who are physically more capable of protecting unaccompanied children or ensuring all pilots are male given its been statistically proven that a higher proportion of crashes involving female pilots are a result of pilot error than their male counterparts.

I for one support this policy wholeheartedly and hope the airline extends its policy of gender based discrimination to all aspects of its operation to ensure the highest possible safety for unaccompanied children. The fact that this airline only considers one small element of risk to unaccompanied children is unacceptable a sign they're just not taking it seriously.

Won't somebody think of the children?!

DB008 · 14 August 2012

Good thing that the other airline wasn't left out, would seem one sided. HA.

Qantas, your turn.

Nurse 'humiliated' by Qantas policy

A nurse was made to feel as if he had a sign that read "kiddie fiddler" over his head after he was moved away from a young girl on a Qantas flight, he said.

Daniel McCluskie said he had a similar experience to a firefighter on a Virgin Australia flight when he was made to switch seats with a woman because he was sitting next to an unaccompanied child.

Qantas has defended its policy, saying it is consistent with that of other airlines around the world and reflects parents' concerns.

Mr McCluskie, 31, is a senior nurse at the local health district in Wagga Wagga and was flying from the city to Sydney in June when he said he was humiliated by the cabin crew.
He was seated in the second last row of the flight next to a girl he estimated to be 10 years old.

After the safety demonstration, a flight attendant asked a woman on the opposite side of the aisle to swap seats with Mr McCluskie.

After the plane was in the air and the meals had been served, Mr McCluskie said he went to the back of the aircraft to ask why he had been moved and was told it was the policy of Qantas not to have men sit next to unaccompanied children.

"There were people that looked during the actual move, people looked at me or looked around because there was a bit of a ruckus at the back of the plane," he said.

"And then the man in front of me throughout the flight kept looking at me and obviously my sense of paranoia was heightened, if you want to call it that, because of what had occurred.

cogs · 14 August 2012

Was this the same NSW fireman, while on a flight to spend 2 years cycling around europe to find his son who had been abducted by the mother?

I am not so sure why this particular story has created such interest, but I am glad it has been brought out in the open.

Check stats on the number of male teachers now and why there are so few, it's not because of the wages.

As a loving caring innocent father, this story pails into insignifigance when compared to mine being dragged through the biased family court system purely because of the power of a female comment and old beliefs of times gone by. I wont get into the false comments made, how I was destoryed and how my son was abused by the mother, needless to say any female or attendant on that flight could have made false accusations against that innocent man and he could have been entangled in the Australian legal and destroyed for life.

If it was the NSW fireman I am talking of he knows exactly what I mean.

It's all about safety of our children, but this is akin to no blacks next to whites.

The role of men in modern society

Julia

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