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The Middle East and Western Asia: Bit of a hot spot?

Sean K

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Seems this region is going to be the source of conflict for many, many years to come.

I wonder how best the West should manage it? Control it, or let them fight it out, and then pick up the pieces? Is oil the only reason we are interested?

Israel has plans for nuclear strike on Iran: paper
Sat Jan 6, 2007 6:22pm ET

LONDON (Reuters) - Israel has drawn up secret plans to destroy Iran's uranium enrichment facilities with tactical nuclear weapons, Britain's Sunday Times newspaper said.

Citing what it said were several Israeli military sources, the paper said two Israeli air force squadrons had been training to blow up an enrichment plant in Natanz using low-yield nuclear "bunker busters".

Two other sites, a heavy water plant at Arak and a uranium conversion plant at Isfahan, would be targeted with conventional bombs, the Sunday Times said.

The U.N. Security Council voted unanimously last month to slap sanctions on Iran to try to stop uranium enrichment that Western powers fear could lead to making bombs. Tehran insists its plans are peaceful and says it will continue enrichment.

Israel has refused to rule out pre-emptive military action against Iran along the lines of its 1981 air strike against an atomic reactor in Iraq, though many analysts believe Iran's nuclear facilities are too much for Israel to take on alone.

The newspaper said the Israeli plan envisaged conventional laser-guided bombs opening "tunnels" into the targets. Nuclear warheads would then be used fired into the plant at Natanz, exploding deep underground to reduce radioactive fallout.

Israeli pilots have flown to Gibraltar in recent weeks to train for the 2,000 mile round-trip to the Iranian targets, the Sunday Times said, and three possible routes to Iran have been mapped out including one over Turkey.

However it also quoted sources as saying a nuclear strike would only be used if a conventional attack was ruled out and if the United States declined to intervene. Disclosure of the plans could be intended to put pressure on Tehran to halt enrichment, the paper added.

Washington has said military force remains an option while insisting that its priority is to reach a diplomatic solution.

Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has called for Israel to be "wiped off the map". Israel, widely believed to have the Middle East's only nuclear arsenal, has said it will not allow Iran to acquire nuclear weapons.
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Saw a great show on SBS recently - young Israeli and Palestinian kids trying to start a "peace movement" - trying to find common ground. But they got bogged down in the same basic problems that keep stumping their parents (and politicians). "Why does Israel strike at civilian targets" - "Hamas hide there - Why does Hamas claim it will not permit Israel to exist".

As Golda Mair said - "until they learn to love their kids more than they hate their enemies"... :2twocents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas incidentally, this is Wikipedia's post on Hamas. I'm fascinated how they "moderate" the various contributions.

You're right Kennas, the nuclear threat is getting nasty. They dont even have to use a real bomb - they can use "dirty bombs".
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Threatening to use nuclear weapons to stop the spread of nuclear weapons... now that makes me feel safe. :dead:
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

A bit cynical but don't you hate how this news is leaked when oil prices fall to their lowest in 2 years?
+ it's been said that Israel will never let Iran become a nucleur power since day dot...so is it such a surprise Israel has these plans,if I'm not mistaken the US already does :2twocents
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

five little questions spring to mind
1. would you trust an israeli politician on this question?
2. would you trust an iranian politician on this question?
3. would you trust an american politician on this question?
4. would you trust an australian politician on this question?
5. are there other options besides
a) encouraging war, or
b) encouraging trust and understanding

As my dorta says, it should be extremely simple to solve - if they thought like me :)
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

I don't like Israel and I less like the fact that they are the only nation in the region that is allowed nuclear weapons. There's hardly a power balance.
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

when will people learn that war only brings misery and suffering... why can't they sort out their differences with a soccer match or with a game of laser skirmish... :cool:
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

insider said:
when will people learn that war only brings misery and suffering... why can't they sort out their differences with a soccer match or with a game of laser skirmish... :cool:
Doesn't soccer actually create more violence?
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Hello Kennas,

I'd like your deeper opinion on this .

Cheers Bob.
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Bobby said:
Hello Kennas,

I'd like your deeper opinion on this .

Cheers Bob.
Hi Bob,
Not capable of that right now but I've obviously started this for a reason. :) Will be back with you tomorrow.
Kennas.
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Bobby said:
Hello Kennas,

I'd like your deeper opinion on this .

Cheers Bob.
Hi Bob,

I'm interested in your own views on this intractable situation.

Regards
Julia
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Julia said:
Hi Bob,

I'm interested in your own views on this intractable situation.

Regards
Julia

Greetings Julia,

I'll say this, Islamic Extremism is a tool to control & use large numbers of Idiots through fanatical zeal to do what ~ Irrational murderous power players want.

Bob.
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Interesting thread..

Do yourselves a favour and buy/rent/borrow a copy of 'Why We Fight' by Eugene Jarecki.. (Think it was released in Aust in November last year) It goes a long way to explaining the reason why we are there and how actions of the past keep coming back to haunt us..

Check out the preview.. http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/

Gives you goosebumps doesn't it..

Unfortunately the preview doesn't get into the background or history of why we are where we are at in the Middle East, but the Movie does and I think anyone interested enough to view/post here will certainly be interested in getting hold of a copy to view..

My simplistic view is that the British and Americans (which pretty much means us as thier allies) made a few blues during the 40 and 50's in the region, specifically the US going to the 'aid' of the Poms in Iran after the Poms had been screwing the Iranians for many many years (all about oil of course) and the establishment and support of Israel.. The US is all about looking for an angle, and they have been inserting ruling puppets sympathetic to the cause only to deposing the very same puppets years later when they wake up and realise they are being duped.. as long as the US need to maintain the 'angle' in the region there will be unrest.. and the need for an angle in the past and indeed present today is oil, more so now than before as the President himself has a direct interest coming from the wealthy 'oil' family that benfits greatly when the price of oil skyrockets

This latest farce is the execution of Saddam, you know, the evil dicator that must be stopped, you've had it rammed down your throats every time you turn on the TV for some time now, not unlike the 'Weaons of Mass destruction' campaign of a few years ago.. Well, my question is where was that foriegn policy when Idi Amin (Full name Idi Amin Dada Oumee. AKA 'Big Daddy', AKA 'Butcher of Africa', AKA 'Conqueror of the British Empire') was top of the Joe, and what about Mugabe and the half a dozen other dictators lurking around the traps, why are we not interested in necking these guys??? The answer I fear is not in the deeds of the persons, but the value of the ground they walk upon..

Anyway I've ranted enough.. I guess it is fairly reasonable to assume that I'm quite disillusioned with the whole regime.. and tomorrow I've served in the Defence Force for Twenty Five years.. :banghead: Time for something new perhaps.. ;)

Regards,

Buster
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Bobby said:
Hello Kennas,

I'd like your deeper opinion on this .

Cheers Bob.
I'm really keen to expand on this, but I am thinking that the movie 'Syriana' went a little bit of the way to painting a decent picture of why the West is involved in the Middle East, and why the Middle East is waging 'war' against the West and it's allies.

Impoverished people with no prospects against an economic colonialist military power raping their region of natural resources to fuel their own Western Christian fundamentalist consumerist idiologies.

Strategically, the region is obviously important, so the powers of the globe will always want to contol it to some degree. (I'm surprised China hasn't started putting it's tenticles in there yet - but we will undoubtedly see that).

So, is it all about strategic military advantage and oil? Or, do we want to be there to make the world a better place?

I'm thinking the former at the moment.
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Buster said:
Anyway I've ranted enough.. I guess it is fairly reasonable to assume that I'm quite disillusioned with the whole regime.. and tomorrow I've served in the Defence Force for Twenty Five years.. :banghead: Time for something new perhaps.. ;)

Regards,

Buster
25 years, well done Buster. You must have a few gongs there. Congrats, quite a contribution.
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

kennas said:
I'm really keen to expand on this, but I am thinking that the movie 'Syriana' went a little bit of the way to painting a decent picture of why the West is involved in the Middle East, and why the Middle East is waging 'war' against the West and it's allies.

Impoverished people with no prospects against an economic colonialist military power raping their region of natural resources to fuel their own Western Christian fundamentalist consumerist idiologies.

Strategically, the region is obviously important, so the powers of the globe will always want to contol it to some degree. (I'm surprised China hasn't started putting it's tenticles in there yet - but we will undoubtedly see that).

So, is it all about strategic military advantage and oil? Or, do we want to be there to make the world a better place?

I'm thinking the former at the moment.

Actually the Chinese are in that movie - laying people off.
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

It's Snake Pliskin said:
Actually the Chinese are in that movie - laying people off.
Yeah, they are in the movie and the US manage to manipulate the Arabs to veto the contract to keep them out.

Apart from the movie, I'm not sure if they are physically in there yet. Certainly in parts of Africa.


Part of this discussion should of course be in regard to Israel and their right to exist, or not. My understanding is that the Palestinians actually had their land taken off them by the Allies after WWII (I think it was a British decision) and it was given to Israel in compensation for the holocost. Maybe the cynical view and very basic, but along those lines. They were also considering an Israeli State somewhere around Sth Africa too but decided to keep it in their original historical 'promised' land.

Should Israel actually have been given this land as spoils of war, or was it theirs all along?
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

you'll find china is right in there, don't worry about that...
as is Russia..

And Buster gave a good synopsis of Bristish and American invlovement.

religion is simply being used to control a lot of people, if it wasn't there, there would be other 'points of differentiation' that could be used..
1. Nationality
2. Race
3. Culture
4. Tribe

etc..

reality, its complex struggle for wealth and power... and as i said, don't underestimate the influence of China and Russia in the region, and their link to the recent increases in tensions...

Also don't underestimate the impact of decisions like selling oil in Euro's as opposed to USD can have...

This is serious stuff, that requires lot more serious thought
 
Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

I think strategically central Europe is actually more important. Nato and America seem to have a strong foothold in Afganistan and a few other central European countries. I believe the US has deals with a few countries to set up bases etc.

It has been said throughout history whoever controls central Europe has dominance over the whole landmass.

Iran, russia, US, Britan and China all seem to be trying to establish dominance in the area since their isn't any real strongly established political systems.
 
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