Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
- Joined
- 13 January 2014
- Posts
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No, 32% is the efficiency of the engine itself, thats how much energy is left to be transferred to actually go into mechanical power.I don't think so. When you do those tractive effort calcs for gear box ratio selections, do you use 6% or the actual power? You know what the irreversible losses (e.g. friction, combustion heat, etc) are so what's left is the work extraction efficiency.
Sure there are drivetrain losses, etc, but ~30-32% is a number you should be using.
I heard someone on the radio asking why Australia doesn't prcess it's natural resources. I think for the lithium mines that would be a smart idea to process the spodumene to lithium here, instead it is sent overseas to be processed. Must be too expensive to process in Australia. Goes something like -- here, process our ore and sell us back the useful stuff. Duh.
The Chinese are building a plant to produce lithium hydroxide, in Kwinana W.A
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-...ssing-plant-gets-green-light-600-jobs/7820452
I can't see why we couldn't build and own it, oh I forgot, we don't own anything.
This is what I mean when I say Electric cars use the energy in a more effective way, But not only that, they can also get their energy input from more efficient systems than traditional refined oil petrol and diesel powered combustion engines.
Put all that together and as a generic answer grid electricity is very close to 30% efficient from fuel in the ground to power in your home. Higher in some places, lower in others and it will also vary with time of day and seasonally but as a whole that 30% is typical.
The whole battery degradation thing is a non issue, the batteries will out live the car, they are expected to have over 90% of their original capacity after 10years.For interest sake, how long do Tesla guarantee their car batteries, from what I've read lithium batteries have a life of around 7 years.
The other thing is, do Tesla guarantee their batteries, to perform as per built specifications? Or is there a built in battery degradation of performance clause?
When you compare that to a small diesel, it really isn't that great.
The Tesla car uses 0.2kWh per km . Petrol yields 8.7kWh per litre, which I reckon is going to be 0.24 x 8.7 =~ 2.0 kWh/litre. at the wheels. For an 8 l/100km car that's 16kWh/100km = 0.16kWh per km
You are a bit confused, smurf is talking about how efficient the energy is delivered to user, that's part 1 of the story, part 1 is about comparing the grid to the oil supply chain, eg that litre of diesel doesn't just appear at the service station, it has to be produced, refined and transported which is a very energy intensive process, where a lot of the energy content of the oil is lost
So when people say a Diesel engine operates at 30% efficiency, that's 30% of the energy in diesel put in the tank makes it out of the engine as potentially usable, but before the diesel got into the tank there has already been huge energy losses during its production and transport.
part 2 is how efficiently the vehicle uses that energy, once it gets loaded onto the vehicle, again electric cars use this power much more efficiently than ice cars, because of that 30% of "usable energy" that leaves the engine a large portion is lost due to idling, non regenative braking and other incidentals, even the hybrids that burn unleaded onboard the vehicle to produce electricity get more km's per litre than the cars that use it to power the drive chain mechanically.
So when people say a Diesel engine operates at 30% efficiency, that's 30% of the energy in diesel put in the tank makes it out of the engine as potentially usable, but before the diesel got into the tank there has already been huge energy losses during its production and transport.
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To explain what I mean, the Holden/chevy Volt, Is a fully electric car with a built in Petrol engine used drive a generator to charge a battery (it can also be plugged in).
Its petrol engine does not power the drive chain of the car directly, when it burns petrol it is simply charging the battery.
By using the petrol motor to charge the battery, the motor can sit at its peak load/RPM efficiency, meaning it can operate more effectively than an engine who's load/RPM have to keep fluctuating and sometimes just idles at traffic lights, and can't recoup energy through regen braking.
The Chevy Volt in Petrol mode uses 5.64 Litres / 100km, it's sister vehicle the chevy Cruze uses 7.4L / 100km.
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However, Combustion engines only operate at around 25% efficiency, So an electric vehicle charged using the grid where efficiency is often over 60%, is even more efficient than the chevy volt style of hybrid.
using home solar, even better.
But yeah, in Rumpoles hypothetical world where electric vehicles some how lower the price of petrol to less than the price of electricity, electric cars could be charged using petrol generators and still be better than ICE cars (but that won't happen)
Why not?I doubt anyone can travel from Perth to Sydney in an electric vehicle, even if they could, stopping every 400k's to recharge wouldn't cut it.
you are missing the point, the point is that regardless even if you use the same engine with the same fuel, an electric drive chain beats a mechanical one.This is the other problem with your quotes, the diesel cycle is about 50% efficient, you seem to quote figures of the Otto cycle, as representing the diesel cycle.
It makes me wonder if you have studied thermodynamics, or are just quoting internet snippets?
Or maybe quoting Tesla's advertising?
I think the comparison of the Chevy volt and the Chevy Cruze is a good example of how electric drive chains are superior.
The Chevy volt drives about 20% further on a 1L of fuel than the Cruze, both burn fuel in a cumbustion engine , except the Volt uses the engine to run an electrical generator where as the Cruze uses it to power a mechanical drive chain.
If there were no benefit to the electrical drive chain the Cruze and the volt should have the same mileage, or the Cruze should beat the volt.
Then when you factor in the ev only mode of the volt when it's charged via plug in rather than using the engine, the running costs halve.
My personal opinion is that the market is gagging for a for an all electric One-tonne pickup... The Ford F100 and GM equiverlent were the most profitable vehicals every produced by these companies.
Mechanics must be looking on with fear.
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