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The future of energy generation and storage


So basically your saying the CSIRO /AMEO analysis of competing energy costs of gas, coal, solar, hydro, nuclear is just rubbish from a bunch of incompetent geriatrics who just don't understand how "Valuable and Important and Nation Building" a Nuclear Industry will be for Australia ?

And I/We are supposed to take your supremely confident assertions as the basis for kicking off a nuclear industry and disregard the Energy Market Authorities and CSIRO analysis of comparative costs which indicate this would a folly of gigantic proportions ?

Questions.

1) If in fact these comparison figures are so wrong where is the business case showing a more favourable comparison ?

2) One of the critical points made in the CSIRO analysis is the very rubbery figures for actual cost of building a nuclear installation VS the creative accounting of the shrills, spivs and BS artistes who make a living selling shares to suckers and sucking dollars from Governments. We who live in teh real world are acutely conscious of the long history of very expensive Nuclear white elephants

3) In what rational universe could you come up with idea of pumping water from FNQ south to cool wildly expensive Nucklear Power Stations ?

By the way Chronos you absolutely no idea of my background in terms of capacity to understand energy costs ect.
 


I think we need to embrace our energy options in a holistic manner which is absent of hardline indoctrination, that considers the established assets which are currently in place for many decades to come. I am happy to allow coal and gas to continue on provided that our food security and freshwater security isn't compromised; I think that it is only fair to allow nuclear into our energy mix.

If we look at Cooper Energy; they have what? A few decades of gas at most. There is no reason why they can't diversify their gas streams with looking at the feasibility of building biogas plants that use green waste and sewage waste for anaerobic digestion to produce methane. This will be an additional revenue methane stream for the business that is economically productive, waste effective and environmentally intelligent.

I am willing to discuss religion and philosophy on a different thread, on this forum if permitted.
 

You could be the Treasurer of NSW for all I care. You still have no clue!
 

The CSIRO can be shutdown tomorrow with little to no impact on our nation's future prosperity. They are a bunch of lazy and overpaid dinosaurs!

Many of our universities can be defunded also, if they aren't careful!
 
The CSIRO can be shutdown tomorrow with little to no impact on our nation's future prosperity. They are a bunch of lazy and overpaid dinosaurs!

Many of our university's can be defunded also, if they aren't careful!

Why don't you go and put a sock in it Chronos. Your trashing your credibility. Your wasting our time.
 
Why don't you go and put a sock in it Chronos. Your trashing your credibility. Your wasting our time.

Am I wasting the time of a deluded activist that wants the world to be plunged into the Stone Age?

Hope you don't work for a university, they need to be defunded ASAP, if so.
 

Sugar cane --> ethanol --> gas turbines --> electricity ?

e.g. Brazil.

https://www.reliableplant.com/Read/22300/Brazil-turbines-sugar-ethanol
 
IMO the reason nuclear isn't being supported ATM, is because it isn't needed, huge swathes of empty land and a very small load by world standards makes renewables and gas a sensible proposition.
However a lot will depend on the success of the H2 market, if we find there is a massive market, then supplementing the renewables and at the same time reducing dependence on gas may change the whole generation landscape.
One thing for sure, neither ideology nor money will come into it, if it becomes necessary. As has been proven with this virus, money is only an issue, untill it has to be spent.
It will all be self resolving IMO.
 
IMO the reason nuclear isn't being supported ATM, is because it isn't needed, huge swathes of empty land and a very small load by world standards makes renewables and gas a sensible proposition.

Yes, that's it, we just don't need it.

Let's see a cost benefit analysis for nuclear including storing the waste for 50,000 years, decommissioning the plant, and provision for cleanups of accidents and the cost of nuclear soars into the stratosphere.
 
It is just capital and politics. If I was a multi-billionaire, like Gates; I would build a commercial Molten Salt Small Modular Reactor within 15 years. No problems at all.
 
Well you won't be closing down our gas and coal plants then, without the nuclear replacement.
 
Sugar cane --> ethanol --> gas turbines --> electricity ?

From a technical perspective a gas turbine can use any liquid or gas fuel so long as it's free of non-combustible solids (in layman's terms "ash").

Ethanol, or indeed any distilled liquid fuel, meets that requirement so can be done.

For a residual fuel, one which does contain non-combustible solids, it has been used successfully overseas with adequate filtration on the fuel to get rid of the otherwise abrasive nasties.

Economics are another question but technically it's doable. Canola oil etc could be done too.
 

You can use Skydrol (hydraulic fluid) and it will turn and burn in a gas turbine engine, under the right conditions. Never seen it, but that is what I was told when learning to fix, test and troubleshoot gas turbine engines.

Ethanol blends are easy for standard road vehicles with internal combustion engines. We should have been doing this back in the 70s.
 

I shouldn't, but I will take it a step further:

Did you know that the Bore Compartment Cooling of a GE CF6-80C2 Gas Turbine Engine is operational up to around ~20000ft whereby it deactivates and the Turbine Cooling Control starts!

Try to find that information on the internet
 
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Ethanol blends are easy for standard road vehicles with internal combustion engines. We should have been doing this back in the 70s.
We could have run our whole vehicle fleet on lpg, but as with nuclear, it wasn't needed so it didn't happen.
Now everyone thinks electric cars are just around the corner, so selling an lpg conversion on a car now would be like selling fridges to eskimos.
Everything changes, technology changes, public perceptions change.

If small modular reactors become commonplace around the world, and are proven safe, who knows in 30 years time they may be sitting outside huge solar/wind farms with huge electrolysis plants attached.

Then the generator runs 24/7 at mcr, when the renewables are supplying the load the generator makes H2, when the renewables output drops, the generator picks up the load and reduces H2 generation.

Win/win the steam turbine lasts longer because it isn't cycling, it is operating constantly at mcr so maximum efficiency and the problem with renewables intermittency is solved.
Time and technology will sort it.
 

Buddy; if we want to keep this stupid commercial nuclear prohibition in place; then so be it.

I don't have the monetary capital or political capital to change it.

We can just be a dumb nation; and I will go back to just reading my books in the library.
 
I personally think we will end up with nuclear power, it is the only thing with the grunt, to rid the world of fossil fuel generation.
Also as I said, the amount of H2 required to replace fossil fuel in transport needs, will force the adoption IMO.
But I can't be bothered arguing about it, been there done that.
 
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