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Just like you seem never able to present an argument.I am not on Facebook, never will be.
With whom?It could be a discussion.
I'm aware of one agreement between an electricity generation company and a major user which uses that concept in a sort-of way.Introduce the concept of climate holidays, but only to energy intensive industry sectors
Next option:A discussion with whom ? Everyone who contributes constructively.
There is no "one solution" to this thread topic. It starts with the premise that we need to reform our current energy systems because
1) Many are coming to the end of their life
2) New technologies offer far most cost effective and environmentally effective opportunities
3) We absolutely must reduce our GG emissions ASAP if we to have a ghost in hell of a chance of reducing the effects of CC.
I don't believe anyone is arguing against the premise. So what we are doing is discussing/ kicking around the options we have and hopefully creating a community awareness that we must take up new opportunities and not be stuck with systems that are failing and if replaced in kind will fail us in an even more spectacular way.
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Some really interesting ideas in Rederobs suggestions. IMO they do point to a need for clear regulatory oversight and national plan that sees a big picture for use use and attempts to integrate them effectively.
I had another thought for a partial solution. (I don't see an single silver bullet here). Across all the big cities are industrial parks , shopping centre, schools with thousands of acres of flat roof space and capable of being oriented in any direction. They all use power as well.
Why not encourage and enable these roofs to have solar panels and incorporate a good sized battery bank between a certain number to enable storage capacity as well ? With a guaranteed number of customers costs could very quickly become more competitive. It would certainly require some policy work but from my understanding the financial figures are very favorable for the tenants.
Minimal energy transport losses. Scaleable. Decent enough individual projects to get economies of scale. Great employment opportunity. Potential good investment opportunity. Great way to stimulate local solar and battery industries. Great opportunity to develop a process that can be exported as well.
SP clearly shows the trials and tribulations of FF generators - who wants them when even they do notRevised and reprinted here with author's permission:
I agree that the eastern seaboard needs to add capacity.
In summary, the problem is the owners of the generators don't want them. The reason being they have to put their units on and take them off to make way for for the renewables.
They don't want to do it because with a steam turbine, you have to cool the turbine down over a few hours at reduced load, to take it off line, otherwise you cant get it again because of the different expansion rates between the lighter spinning rotor and the heavy outer case.
Then in the morning you have to fire the boiler for 1 to 2 hours, to get the steam temps and pressures right, so that when you put steam to the turbine, the shaft doesn't shink or expand too quickly. If the differential expansion goes out of spec you have to trip the turbine and start again, Power systems don't like that. With the clearances you are only talking 1-2mm on 30 rows of blades spinning on a 50 ton shaft at 3000RPM, one touch and there is $50m worth of damage.
So getting back to the issue, I don't believe we have enough time to install adequate renewable energy and storage to replace the coal generators and, in any case, the owners would rather get rid of them because they are a pain in the ar$e.
But at this point in time we need them, so as I said earlier, if we want green replacement right now, it is either gas or nuclear. If we want to reduce emissions now and there is't enough gas. The Government will have to build a 5GW station 10 x 500MW units, and close down some of the crap stations.
The Government will have to step in because private operators won't want to; they cannot afford to invest in stranded assets.
This will give the Government a steering hand in coal plant closures and keep the grid secure while renewables are installed.
I see it taking up to 30 years - we physically cannot install the amount of gear required much quicker. Recall that the mining boom caused a labour shortage, so this will make that look like a play in the sand pit.
It is hard to try and explain the enormity of the problem, I am all for renewables, they are great.
But there is a long road ahead, business and the public will demand secure power supplies, while we travel that road.
Anyway hope that gives a bit more insight.
To qualify that, it was just my opinion, and we know what that is worth, as much as it cost.SP clearly shows the trials and tribulations of FF generators - who wants them when even they do not.
Political expediency is more palatable when the outcome is essentially the same, especially given governments are paying for the solution.Nothing wrong with settling up microgrids and battery banks but I suggest the use of industrial sized warehouses and industrial/commercial energy might make more sense.
U.
On other matters, there was a comment about steam turbine ramp rates and the problems with intermittent renewables and so on.
Main comment I'll add is that nuclear is just another way of boiling water. It's still a steam turbine power station and one that's even less flexible in operation and less thermally efficient than coal. It is thus not a solution to any technical limit on coal-fired plant. Economic or emissions issues perhaps but not technical limits since it's the same basic system simply with a different heat source.
Looking at what AGL are doing at Barker Inlet is much closer to it. Great big diesels basically. Primary fuel is natural gas but they're diesels as such and can run diesel as backup fuel. 210 MW for $295 million isn't bad (although that doesn't include gas supply and also doesn't include any new transmission).
Cold to full load at Barker Inlet should be about 5 minutes and the engines are 17.5 MW each.
I think I would have a different perspective on the options.Political expediency is more palatable when the outcome is essentially the same, especially given governments are paying for the solution.
Would you rather have 200,000 voters liking what you did for them or a few thousand employers?
So true. Any idea who removed this sign from the lifts at a WA Power Station a few years ago?To qualify that, it was just my opinion, and we know what that is worth, as much as it cost.
But it is a big problem, it is a bit like owning a fart in an elevator.
That's very true and I agree with the problems cycling, however they can to a certain degree ,be classed as "green", when considering emissions.
Therefore in theory at least, it would reduce the haste with which the renewables would have to be installed. Also apparently there has been a lot of progress, in small nuclear reactors, basically skid mounts that can be trucked in.
We converted the diesels at Carnarvon, to run on LNG back in the 1980's, basically added a second fuel rail and rack, started on diesel then changed over to LNG.
It worked well.
First, homeowners exiting lucrative feed rates may consider adding a little more capacity to their old systems to both compensate for degradation and optimise savings. Depending on circumstances, even without subsidies the payback can be as soon as 5 years. Selling houses that don't get thousands of dollars in electricity bills is a bonus.
Secondly, even without subsidies you can nowadays install a solar system for less than most did many years ago when locking in their high FITs.
In theory, hydrogen can run anything LNG or petrol can run, eg gas turbine, kitchen cooktop, petrol engine, jet engine, diesel engine, steam boiler.Could these units be converted to run on hydrogen ? There is much talk about creating a hydrogen economy and one of the pressing needs from an environmental POV is eliminating more GG emissions.
How doable would this be ?
Diesels and gas turbines can run on hydrogen.I was more interested in the diesel generators being converted to run on hydrogen. Or the gas turbines . Perhaps there is a way to produce enough hydrogen at a competitive price and end up with a system that doesn't produce any GG .
If that was the case I think there would be strong interest in keeping gas turbines and changing the fuel.
A nuclear reactor is not going to run on anything except nuclear fuel I believe.
Whatever it takes.
Power companies were owned by the States for decades and no one complained about prices or lack of supply.
Now that they are privatised the energy sector is a disaster.
When you can build unlimited amounts of coal fired power stations, subsidized by cheap government loans and slush funds
There's really four aspects to the overall dilemma:There is no "one solution" to this thread topic. It starts with the premise that we need to reform our current energy systems because
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