The Abbott Government

sydboy007 · 5 June 2015

Smurf1976 said:
Over the past 25 or so years we have effectively outsourced pretty much everything to "the market".

First it was big things like aviation and power. Now we're down to WA selling the street lights (yes really) and Tas doing some dodgy "no need for a tender" deal to outsource the traffic lights. That's scraping the bottom of the barrel stuff surely.

What is the (insert policy area here) of Australia or of any particular state? That's up to the market to decide.

The trouble with all this is that markets focus on what's good for the individual, they don't focus on what's good for the nation in the long term. You can't even fly from one city to another these days without paying monopoly rent to the private owner of the relevant airports - and they are indeed in the rent seeking business when you look at how much money they're making simply having planes take off and land on their property.

Even policy seems to have been outsourced. Before doing anything Governments get industry insiders to run a review and then provide options for reform.

PPPs using expensive private sector debt instead of Government building the assets and selling 30+ year bonds to hungry pension funds desperate for yield paid off with tolls that pay off the debt over the economic life of the asset. We could be filling the demand gap by renewing our crumbling infrastructure, but debt is such a bad word these days.

In NSW the Govt has done a deal with AGL to provide pensioner energy plans. No open tender, no talking to other providers. Packers gets a free casino license, then gets to overbuild even more to make his project economic.

That song from 89 was oh so true

I've no excuse
I just want you to use me
(Use me)
Take me and abuse me
I got no taboos
I'll make a trade with you
(With you)
I'll do anything you want me to

Money talks
(You know)
Money talks
Dirty cash
I want you
Dirty cash
I need you, oh

I wasn't right
And now I'm so behind
I want to get rich quick
I want success
And all that goes with it
And I'm gonna use myself

I want your money
I need you money
Dirty cash I want you
I want your money
I need you money
Ooh

IFocus · 6 June 2015

This really irritates me when Griggs continually under mines Abbotts attempts to improve his polling.

Democracy undermined by new laws says Gillian Triggs

Human Rights Commission president Gillian Triggs has come under fire for being out of touch after she launched a stinging criticism of counterterrorism laws, saying they infringed on democratic rights and freedoms.

Speaking at the Human Rights Law Centre and Justice Connect annual dinner in Melbourne last night, Professor Triggs launched a stinging rebuke of the laws passed by parliament over the last decade and said they had undermined a healthy, robust democracy.

“What are the options for democracy when both major parties, in government and opposition, agree upon laws that violate fundamental freedoms?” she said.

Professor Triggs claimed the overreach of the executive was clear in the proposal to strip citizenship from people accused of being jihadists fighting against Australian interests, if they are dual nationals.

“This proposal strikes at the heart of Australia as a largely migrant nation,” she said.

“Not only may this idea violate Australia’s international obligation not to render a person stateless, but also the decision may be at the discretion of a minister, without recourse to judicial processes.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...s-gillian-triggs/story-e6frg6n6-1227385702823

sydboy007 · 6 June 2015

IFocus said:
This really irritates me when Griggs continually under mines Abbotts attempts to improve his polling.

Democracy undermined by new laws says Gillian Triggs

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...s-gillian-triggs/story-e6frg6n6-1227385702823

This is what worries me

“Not only may this idea violate Australia’s international obligation not to render a person stateless, but also the decision may be at the discretion of a minister, without recourse to judicial processes.”

We were dragged into a multi billion dollar war in Iraq on faulty / false "intelligence". Allowing a politician to declare someone is a terrorist, with no recourse to the courts, no verification of the evidence used to make the decision, well if this gets through in the current form then mission creep for the Government will continue with the erosion of our rights as Australian citizens.

Before the right on this forum start charging me as being pro terrorist, no I'm not. If someone is stupid enough to go off and fight with some militant organisation then there needs to be consequences for those actions, but we should also clean up our own mess. If someone has lived in Australia for the majority of their life, is it fair to fob them off to their "home" country when they have little to any ties to it? Does it make sense to take away the option for someone realising what a stupid idea it was to go off and play soldier and they cannot come back to Australia. They should face criminal action, end up in jail, but at least they'd know they could leave the fighting rather than stick it out to the death. Possibly their stories might make the good fight not seem so filled with blessed virgins for those thinking of jihad, and who knows, they might provide a bit of actionable intelligence as well.

Can anyone say they truly trust a politician and political party enough that they wouldn't use these powers for political gain? I don't. Actions done in secrecy eventually leads to poor outcomes. It's the old addage of what would you do if you knew you could get away with it.

IFocus · 6 June 2015

QUOTE=sydboy007;871357]This is what worries me

I think its disgusting pretty much all with Shortens support because he is incapable of presenting an opposing argument like you never every, every give powers that belong to the courts to the ruling executive.

The sooner we get rid of this current bunch of low intellectual populists on both sides the better.

Abbott and co are just unbelievable.

IFocus · 8 June 2015

Amanda Vanstone criticises Tony Abbott's citizenship policy and Cabinet handling: 'That's either lazy, sneaky or both'

Amanda Vanstone, former immigration minister under the Howard government who presents Counterpoint on ABC Radio National, took aim at Tony Abbott in an opinion column published by Fairfax.

"Tony Abbott is a constitutional monarchist and a self-confessed Anglophile, so for him to tolerate, let alone be at the helm of, a ship that throws the Westminster system of Cabinet government out the window is simply astounding," she said.

"The public will not long tolerate people who say one thing and do another."

Her comments were triggered by the leaked Cabinet discussion over citizenship policy and what she described the lack of "proper process".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-...athing-tony-abbott-citizenship-policy/6529278

noco · 8 June 2015

IFocus said:
Amanda Vanstone criticises Tony Abbott's citizenship policy and Cabinet handling: 'That's either lazy, sneaky or both'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-...athing-tony-abbott-citizenship-policy/6529278

I guess that must please you no end....So pleased to see a smile on your face.

SirRumpole · 8 June 2015

sydboy007 said:
We were dragged into a multi billion dollar war in Iraq on faulty / false "intelligence". Allowing a politician to declare someone is a terrorist, with no recourse to the courts, no verification of the evidence used to make the decision, well if this gets through in the current form then mission creep for the Government will continue with the erosion of our rights as Australian citizens.

Section 80.1 of the Criminal Code, contained in the schedule of the Australian Criminal Code Act 1995,[4] defines treason as follows:

A person commits an offence, called treason, if the person:

(a) causes the death of the Sovereign, the heir apparent of the Sovereign, the consort of the Sovereign, the Governor-General or the Prime Minister; or
(b) causes harm to the Sovereign, the Governor-General or the Prime Minister resulting in the death of the Sovereign, the Governor-General or the Prime Minister; or
(c) causes harm to the Sovereign, the Governor-General or the Prime Minister, or imprisons or restrains the Sovereign, the Governor-General or the Prime Minister; or
(d) levies war, or does any act preparatory to levying war, against the Commonwealth; or
(e) engages in conduct that assists by any means whatever, with intent to assist, an enemy:

(i) at war with the Commonwealth, whether or not the existence of a state of war has been declared; and
(ii) specified by Proclamation made for the purpose of this paragraph to be an enemy at war with the Commonwealth; or

(f) engages in conduct that assists by any means whatever, with intent to assist:

(i) another country; or
(ii) an organisation;

that is engaged in armed hostilities against the Australian Defence Force; or
(g) instigates a person who is not an Australian citizen to make an armed invasion of the Commonwealth or a Territory of the Commonwealth; or
(h) forms an intention to do any act referred to in a preceding paragraph and manifests that intention by an overt act.

A person is not guilty of treason under paragraphs (e), (f) or (h) if their assistance or intended assistance is purely humanitarian in nature.

The only permissible penalty for treason is life imprisonment. Section 24AA of the Crimes Act 1914 creates the related offence of treachery.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason

So, on a reading of that section (by a non lawyer), it would seem that all that is necessary is a Proclamation to be issued that we are engaged in hostilities with ISIL, and then any person who assists that organisation can be tried for treason.

I wonder why this point has not arisen yet.

sydboy007 · 9 June 2015

SirRumpole said:
So, on a reading of that section (by a non lawyer), it would seem that all that is necessary is a Proclamation to be issued that we are engaged in hostilities with ISIL, and then any person who assists that organisation can be tried for treason.

I wonder why this point has not arisen yet.

That wouldn't let Abbott do his soap box grand standing and try to wedge labor on not being as tough on terrorism as the coalition.

Same thing with data retention. Even the law enforcement agencies couldn't provide much proof that existing laws were hampering their investigations that much.

IFocus · 9 June 2015

The masters are stirring

Libertarian thinktank IPA denounces Coalition's sole citizenship proposal

The Liberal party’s ideological allies in the Institute of Public Affairs (IPA) have called on the government to rule out a minister stripping sole nationals of their Australian citizenship, saying this would be “an outrageous attack on the rule of law”.

Simon Breheny, director of the IPA’s legal rights project, also called for the coming legislation dealing with dual nationals to include a comprehensive judicial review process so that a person could challenge the case.

Breheny’s comments come as the government prepares to introduce legislation in the next sitting fortnight to give the immigration minister, Peter Dutton, the power to revoke the Australian citizenship of dual nationals who are deemed to be involved in terrorism even if they have not been convicted of a crime.

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...enounces-coalitions-sole-citizenship-proposal

noco · 9 June 2015

IFocus said:
The masters are stirring

Libertarian thinktank IPA denounces Coalition's sole citizenship proposal

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...enounces-coalitions-sole-citizenship-proposal

What else would you expect from the the Guardian communist paper....Most unreliable news.

The paper which opposes anything the Liberal Government submits.

SirRumpole · 9 June 2015

noco said:
What else would you expect from the the Guardian communist paper....Most unreliable news.

The paper which opposes anything the Liberal Government submits.

Blame the messengers eh ?

The Right are splitting and fighting themselves.

How delicious

Macquack · 9 June 2015

"Rope a Dope" Hockey is up to his usual irrelevance.

Joe "I have never paid for a tank of fuel in my entire life" Hockey denied that the Sydney real estate market was becoming unaffordable for first-home buyers.

"If housing were unaffordable in Sydney, no-one would be buying it," Hockey said.

This Hockey character would make a great understudy for Kim Jong-un, a fat rich kid completely out of touch with reality.

Tony Abbott, please get rid of this goon.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-...nsensitivity-over-sydney-house-prices/6532630

banco · 9 June 2015

Macquack said:
"Rope a Dope" Hockey is up to his usual irrelevance.

Joe "I have never paid for a tank of fuel in my entire life" Hockey denied that the Sydney real estate market was becoming unaffordable for first-home buyers.

"If housing were unaffordable in Sydney, no-one would be buying it," Hockey said.

This Hockey character would make a great understudy for Kim Jong-un, a fat rich kid completely out of touch with reality.

Tony Abbott, please get rid of this goon.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-...nsensitivity-over-sydney-house-prices/6532630

Funny thing is Hockey had a good "announceable" as they say in Canberra about the crackdown on foreign buyers yet by the end of the day his gaffe leads the news.

noco · 9 June 2015

Macquack said:
"Rope a Dope" Hockey is up to his usual irrelevance.

Joe "I have never paid for a tank of fuel in my entire life" Hockey denied that the Sydney real estate market was becoming unaffordable for first-home buyers.

"If housing were unaffordable in Sydney, no-one would be buying it," Hockey said.

This Hockey character would make a great understudy for Kim Jong-un, a fat rich kid completely out of touch with reality.

Tony Abbott, please get rid of this goon.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-...nsensitivity-over-sydney-house-prices/6532630

So therefore you must have a lower opinion of the the goose, I mean Swan.

SirRumpole · 9 June 2015

Macquack said:
"Rope a Dope" Hockey is up to his usual irrelevance.

Joe "I have never paid for a tank of fuel in my entire life" Hockey denied that the Sydney real estate market was becoming unaffordable for first-home buyers.

"If housing were unaffordable in Sydney, no-one would be buying it," Hockey said.

This Hockey character would make a great understudy for Kim Jong-un, a fat rich kid completely out of touch with reality.

Tony Abbott, please get rid of this goon.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-...nsensitivity-over-sydney-house-prices/6532630

No one seems to have told Hockey that 60% of the financing for mortgages in Sydney goes to investors. You know, those people who live in leafy North shore Sydney where Hockey and Abbot and Turnbull live.

They probably think that anywhere west of Ryde doesn't exist.

Smurf1976 · 10 June 2015

Macquack said:
"If housing were unaffordable in Sydney, no-one would be buying it," Hockey said.

"If wages were unaffordable for business, no-one would be employed" is a similar logic.

I trust that the Liberals will now be joining with the Unions in order to come up with a plan for rapid wages growth, at least matching the pace of house price growth, since we haven't yet reached the point where business can't afford to employ anyone.

I'm joking of course, wages and house prices are high as it is, but if house prices going through the roof isn't a problem as long as someone can afford to buy then logically wages going through the roof wouldn't be a problem as long as at least one business can afford to pay.

One way to spot a flawed argument is to apply the same logic to a different but comparable issue and see if it makes sense.

Tisme · 10 June 2015

Logic is only worth something if it suits the person it's targeted at. Politics and tribal glue are much stronger than common sense.

Won't be a problem anyway because the bank shares are diving and the housing prices will follow too. Sydney has been a jaw dropper, head shaker with housing trends since the late seventies.

Bit dangerous pinning our GDP reports on housing prices, but Hockey has just about killed off any green shoots from mining and industry, so he has to create something else for the equation and housing is it at the expense of the consumer (a kind of stealth tax in a way).

MrBurns · 10 June 2015

Hockey needs a slap in the back of the head...how does the poor bloke stuck on the average wage, and lucky to get it, after finding a job at long last feel as he sits in front of the TV with his family in their rented home, feel when the Treasurer of Australia casually advises that he should get a job with more money if he wants to buy a home for his wife and kids.

trainspotter · 10 June 2015

SirRumpole said:
No one seems to have told Hockey that 60% of the financing for mortgages in Sydney goes to investors. You know, those people who live in leafy North shore Sydney where Hockey and Abbot and Turnbull live.

They probably think that anywhere west of Ryde doesn't exist.

And anyone who lives in Sydney does not think that anywhere West of Penrith does not exist

Keep living your life in a fish bowl

SirRumpole · 10 June 2015

trainspotter said:
And anyone who lives in Sydney does not think that anywhere West of Penrith does not exist

Keep living your life in a fish bowl

I live west of Penrith and think that this thing called Sydney is actually a myth made up by parents to frighten naughty children.

The Abbott Government

sydboy007

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

sydboy007

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

noco

SirRumpole

sydboy007

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

noco

SirRumpole

Macquack

banco

noco

SirRumpole

Smurf1976

Tisme

Apathetic at Best

MrBurns

trainspotter

SirRumpole

Similar threads

The Abbott Government

You are arguing with a Galah

You are arguing with a Galah

You are arguing with a Galah

You are arguing with a Galah

Apathetic at Best

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency