Tisme
Apathetic at Best
- Joined
- 27 August 2014
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What's your answer then on polling day ?
At the booth you have two choices. Vote for a party (or individual) whom you feel is best (or put another way, least worst) or vote informal.
I think polling day is too late. It is true we put our welfare in the hands of the few, but that doesn't mean we then rely on the media to keep them on the path they were tasked to follow. We should be using unstacked media like forums to voice our concerns at the calibre and honesty of the elected.
It is really hard to stop blindly supporting a political organisation when it's in our collective DNA to do so. We know we are encoded to be tribal and have a sense of belonging, but how many tribal layers are enough and how many no no conditioning receptors have to be kept switched on?
We continue to be in a meta self flagellation mode when it comes to politics, even by protest voting for startup parties, rather than actually force change on the prevailing parties to at least communicate the pros and cons of what they are doing without squinty eyes and lizard lips.
We should be encouraging open forums. The ABC, which is under attack, itself was guilty of censorship when it setup the QANDA discussion board and then proceeded to limit freedom of speech, falsely implied it channelled into the TV program and limited the discussion to it's own topics.....one could only assume there was political interference happening and not of any particular branding.
Social media could be great if it wasn't for the shallow generation who dominate it with likes, disingenuous compliments and flakey commentary. Once again the beacon of fifth estate democracy, the ABC, limits discussion via no conversations and restricting the topics..... it is merely a programme aid rather than democracy in action as it purports.
So my solution is to encourage people to step back and ponder why they vote, what their own wants and needs are, how the community benefits and do we want progress or stagnation? Does the comfortable pair of slippers we have been wearing exclude the newer improved versions and are our feet suffering?
It's perhaps a little ambitious to think one might change the course of national politics from a general chat section of a stock forum. The political discussion is largely light entertainment and banter typically amongst the usual regulars which I imagine many passers by would find boring if for no other reason than a lesser interest than those regulars (including myself) who post.So my solution is to encourage people to step back and ponder why they vote, what their own wants and needs are, how the community benefits and do we want progress or stagnation? Does the comfortable pair of slippers we have been wearing exclude the newer improved versions and are our feet suffering?
It's perhaps a little ambitious to think one might change the course of national politics from a general chat section of a stock forum. The political discussion is largely light entertainment and banter typically amongst the usual regulars which I imagine many passers by would find boring if for no other reason than a lesser interest than those regulars (including myself) who post.
You would more likely have greater influence by joining a political party of your preference but again there, you have to make a choice or start your own with all the purity of an angel if you wish.
Without purity, how do you address your own argument ?Whether your "purity" comment is meant to be condescending or inflammatory or neither, it is still an aspiration riddled with self serving and egotistical negatives impinging on all sides, but an aspirational benchmark nonetheless.
The lesser of two evils mantra doesn't excuse the fact that wrong is wrong no matter the degree of wrongness.
If Nick Xenophon started a party instead of remaining a one man band I think he would be very successful.
He would have to be prepared to aim for government and have some clear policies and a vision for the future.
People are getting sick of "spoiler" parties and independents that you don't really know their thinking until they have to accept or reject other's policies.
I get the impression from the above that you've looked and haven't liked what you've seen. That doesn't surprise me.I have no desire to start a political party. I have been actively courted by many political organs in my time and I have a strong public political DNA that courses through my veins...which is why I have the low regard for many who warm their bums on taxpayer seats.
I get the impression from the above that you've looked and haven't liked what you've seen. That doesn't surprise me.
Another option for getting your political views into the broader electorate might be letters to the editor of major newspapers. If it to the editor's liking, that may broaden your reach well beyond this forum.
sptrawler has asked you to expand on this which I'd echo. Endless repetition even of something that might be more or less true seems a bit pointless to me.How about some even handedness. People on this forum repeat ad nauseum a lot of untrue things about Labor, yet that seems to be acceptable.
Is it though? I don't think I can agree with that, tisme. Most people are able to think for themselves and only a small proportion (some of whom are represented here) blindly support their 'side' thoughtlessly.It is really hard to stop blindly supporting a political organisation when it's in our collective DNA to do so.
All true.We should be encouraging open forums. The ABC, which is under attack, itself was guilty of censorship when it setup the QANDA discussion board and then proceeded to limit freedom of speech, falsely implied it channelled into the TV program and limited the discussion to it's own topics.....one could only assume there was political interference happening and not of any particular branding.
Social media could be great if it wasn't for the shallow generation who dominate it with likes, disingenuous compliments and flakey commentary. Once again the beacon of fifth estate democracy, the ABC, limits discussion via no conversations and restricting the topics..... it is merely a programme aid rather than democracy in action as it purports.
Agree. He's sensible, experienced and thoughtful, able to disagree without being personally insulting or rude.If Nick Xenophon started a party instead of remaining a one man band I think he would be very successful.
There are other options. The IPA seems to have a lot of influence over the LNP, whereas GetUp boasts 600,000 members, 10 times more than the Labor party and they claim to be progressive.
Being an individual party member just doesn't seem to cut it any more, you need to be a lobby group (preferably with money) to get the ear of the people that matter in any party.
We didn't sink into recession because we didn't have the exposure to the CDO's and associated toxic debt.
We were actually on an upward investment cycle ,trying to keep up with China's demand for raw materials.
Can you be a bit more precise, what generally do you think has been untrue, I'm not asking for specifics.
But genarally what slur is missdirected
Well the obvious answer to that is, there wasn't a budgetary problem left behind.
You can talk it up as much as you like, but the fact is, they inherited a surplus.
The mining boom was rising for a further 5 years, we had a massive shortfall of skilled labour.
Gillard gave the o.k for Gina to bring in thousands of construction workers, for Roy Hill, on 457's.
Firstly the result of the last election, is a result of Australians sense of humour, a dry response to an unsavoury choice.
You're probably too young to remember the work choices reality, you are probably remembering the hysteria surrounding it.
In reality, it is probably in force now and has been since Labor were in office.
The basis for Labors scare campaign was, unions couldn't be involved in workplace deals.
Well most workplaces in W.A are on individual contracts anyway.
Can you tell me if you are on an individual agreed contract, or a union agreed wage?
It's just hype, to wow and stun, the gullible.
So when does criticise, extend to block legislation because you don't agree with a payrise. I'm confused.
Howard inherited a deficit from Keating, the main reason Keating was thrown out was because workers were screwed over.
Having said that, in retrospect it had to be done, because wages were high and unemployment were high.
Getting back to Howard, he ran a tight economy, one of my sons was enjoying life surfing, when Howard changed welfare, my son got fed up with jumping through hoops and got a job. Needless to say he hates Howard.lol
Howard/Costello reduced the deficit and then ran a surplus, rather than just keep running an ever increasing surplus, they reduced personal income tax rates.
The mining boom hadn't really got a head of steam by 2006, so Howard/ Costello started the future fund to mitigate the ballooning cost of commonwealth supperannuation obligations.
These costs are compounding beyond belief, to start the future fund has saved the taxpayer zillions.
So what is the Rudd, Gillard, Rudd legacy?
How about answering that, Syd, with some substance.
That will take some time.
It is good to see you agree with me, instead of with the Labor manifesto.
Common sense breaking through. yeh
We may get you to vote Liberal yet.
But the Liberals are a big Australia party as well. Howard has admitted to it and unless you can point to something from Abbott saying he wants to see a reduction in immigration.
I'd love the population ponzi to be shut down over the next few years. The whole focus on GDP growth when real per capita incomes are stagnating and falling is not a good way forward.
But to blame Labor as the sole big Australia party is factually wrong.
That labor was a big spending Govt when they spent far less than Howard.
That Howard was some economic miracle worker when he set up the budget for the terminal structural imbalances we are now seeing. Howard oversaw the largest narrowing of the taxation base with his halving of capital gains tax and tax free super for the over 60s. You could also argue his permanent fix to fuel excise has also robbed the budget of billions.
The removal of RBLs on super with tax free super for the over 60s has turned the whole system into a massive tax minimisation scheme for the wealthy. You’ll argue that it doesn’t benefit many people, and that’s true, but the billions in assets now tax free means there’s an ever growing drain on the budget. .
The CGT was changed from an extremely cumbersome and time consuming behemoth, called cost base indexing, to the current system.
It was a nightmare for all concerned, to administer and oversee, if the new system required modifying Labor should have done it.
From your statements, Labor presided over falling tax reciepts, it's there responsibility to sort it, if indeed it needed sorting.
The same applies to super, Howard came into office in 1996 and was chucked out 2007, the super system was introduced in 1992.
Therefore Howard oversaw the very early days of the super system, and had to address the 'baby boomers' starting to retire.
The balances that people had in super was minimal, even now the majority have very low balances.
In March 2006, Costello allowed people to place a one of $1million deposit into their super, before July 2006.
This was to allow the first 'baby boomers' to top up their super, before retirement.
It made sense really, it would basically take them off the pension system.
Unfortunatelly for them the GFC cleaned a lot out. Therefore post GFC the cost of the super burden would have been relitively low.
Then Labor took over the reins and responsibility, did they change the taxing on super, they were in charge when the post GFC recovery happened.
Therefore it stands to reason, they oversaw the super cost blow out and did nothing about it.
How come you lay the responsibility at Howards feet?
So basically you're saying if Govt A introduces bad policy and Govt B is unable to remove it that Govt B is now fully responsible .
The one off $1M into super in 2006 is of minimal concern. You've avoided the whole issue of tax free super and the fact that for a small minority it is allowing them to minimise their tax on a massive scale. When some SMSFs have over $100M in assets it's no longer about saving for retirement but shelter assets from taxation. Shouldn't Howard wear teh blame for this since it was his changes that allowed it to happen?.
The post GFC recovery has been extremely weak. The current Govt is going to face an even worse situation, though in relative terms the downward trend will be similar to what Labor faced when compared to the Howard Govt..
In terms of the facts, the average annual growth in real government spending in five years from 2000-01 under Howard was 4.3%; for Labor in the five years since 2007-08, the average annual increase has been 3.4%, so if Howard was running a tight budget as you say, what would you describe Labor's efforts then?.
In simple terms, in the five years from 2000-01, the Howard government increased real government spending by around 23%. In the five years from 2007-08, when Labor had controlled the budget purse strings, growth in real government spending was a tick over 17%, including the 12.7% increase in 2008-09 when the GFC was bearing down on the Australian economy, threatening a recession. So once again how do say Labor were big spenders when Howard was outspending them by a significant margin?.
Since Labor took office in November 2007, in the three completed years of budgeting, the tax to GDP ratio averaged a comparatively tiny 20.7% – a stark number highlighting the revenue loss from the GFC and the income tax cuts that were delivered in its first three years of office..
Or think of it this way, if the Labor government were to raise the tax take to the peak level under the Howard government, it would have been the equivalent of $4,000 a year, every year, for each household. Do you think Abbott would have supported tax increases like that to balance the budget?.
Tax revenue fell by 2.9 percentage points relative to GDP for Labor when compared to Howard. That's where pretty much where all the deficits come from..
Certainly I believe Labor should have implemented far more of the Henry Tax review, but honestly how much of that do you believe Abbott would have supported? Why hasn't Abbott used some in his first budget to tide him over to the tax white paper is released? If the argument is they were good policy options then they're likely to still be good options now. Abbot has wasted his first year in office and burnt massvie amounts of political capital over PPL and the GP tax..
It'll be very interesting to see what excuse are rolled out during the upcoming MYEFO. Certainly anything true for the current Govt in terms of revenue short falls was also true for Labor.
So how do you continue to call Labor profligate when the facts show they weren't.
They spent comensurate with their tax take, Labor didn't.
No one said they spent too much, just spent unwisely, without first checking how much money is coming in.
They were cut some slack on the first term, but continued on their merry way through the second term.
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