The Abbott Government

sydboy007 · 25 April 2014

banco said:
The carbon tax was a TAX (ie revenue). This is expenditure.

Now now, as the Guv'ent says "The alternative global model is purchasing abatement. Instead of a heavy punitive tax, a buy-back model focuses on activities that reduce emissions."

We'll get to see what expenditures are cut to make way for DA and it's extra billion in funding. The age of corporate rent seeking is about to be turbo charged.

Julia · 25 April 2014

Calliope said:
Thanks to this buffoon we may be spared the stupidity, waste and uselessness of the Direct Action climate change plan.

Yes, there just may be some value in Mr Palmer after all if he can do away with this.

banco said:
Short version: how to piss away $2.5 billion so we can say we have a climate change policy

And that's almost entirely why it was dreamed up. They should just have had the courage to say "we do not believe in taking action unless it is along with complete global participation."

I'm not sure how devious the Liberal strategists are (or perhaps just Mr Abbott himself), but I suppose it's possible that he is taking a punt on sticking to the climate change and PPL schemes in order to please those parts of the electorate that might benefit from at least the PPL, in the belief that none of it will get through the Senate anyway?

banco · 25 April 2014

Julia said:
Yes, there just may be some value in Mr Palmer after all if he can do away with this.

And that's almost entirely why it was dreamed up. They should just have had the courage to say "we do not believe in taking action unless it is along with complete global participation."

I almost feel sorry for Greg Hunt because he gets beaten up in every interview he does trying to defend this pathetic policy.

noco · 25 April 2014

banco said:
I almost feel sorry for Greg Hunt because he gets beaten up in every interview he does trying to defend this pathetic policy.

Greg Hunt does not impress me one bit....he always comes across as a kid who has just left high school and lacking in confidence in his own ability.........I hope Palmer has this direct action plan blocked in the senate and so save us $2.5 billion.

As for the PPL it should also be scrapped along side the carbon dioxide tax.

Yes, you are right...this is Noco speaking from the cuff.

drsmith · 25 April 2014

banco said:
The carbon tax was a TAX (ie revenue). This is expenditure.

The compensation is expenditure.

The cost of implementation, maintenance and compliance is expenditure.

The cost this nation transfers overseas as an ETS is a loss of wealth to this nation.

Both the carbon tax and the Coalition's direct action are duds in my view but the latter is less of a dud and at least has the virtue of being something a government said it would do during an election campaign as opposed to something a government said it would not do.

drsmith · 27 April 2014

The Medicare levy is already set to increase from July this year as partial funding for the NDIS and there are now media reports about a debt levy in the upcoming budget.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...dget-says-report/story-fnmbxsh3-1226897147747

This in my view would be a significant breach of trust as was the superannuation surcharge in the first term of the Howard Government.

sydboy007 · 27 April 2014

drsmith said:
The Medicare levy is already set to increase from July this year as partial funding for the NDIS and there are now media reports about a debt levy in the upcoming budget.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...dget-says-report/story-fnmbxsh3-1226897147747

This in my view would be a significant breach of trust as was the superannuation surcharge in the first term of the Howard Government.

With ~$120B in tax expenditures each year, practically the highest level in the OECD, I'd say cutting back on some of them would be a fairer way to distribute the pain of balancing the budget. Combine that with a move away from corporate and income taxes to a broadened GST and progressive land tax and I'd say getting the budget back to surplus is easy. The hard part is having the leadership to steer the public to understanding this is the best way forward, and neither Abbott or Hockey so far have shown much ticker for the task.

Another problem is tax expenditures generally benefit the L+NP voters more, so movement from Hockey on them is most likely not on the agenda, thought I am hoping the mooted NG changes for housing do eventuate.

noco · 27 April 2014

sydboy007 said:
With ~$120B in tax expenditures each year, practically the highest level in the OECD, I'd say cutting back on some of them would be a fairer way to distribute the pain of balancing the budget. Combine that with a move away from corporate and income taxes to a broadened GST and progressive land tax and I'd say getting the budget back to surplus is easy. The hard part is having the leadership to steer the public to understanding this is the best way forward, and neither Abbott or Hockey so far have shown much ticker for the task.

Another problem is tax expenditures generally benefit the L+NP voters more, so movement from Hockey on them is most likely not on the agenda, thought I am hoping the mooted NG changes for housing do eventuate.

Ya gotta keep Australia MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVING FOOOOOOOOOOOOOORWARD.

explod · 27 April 2014

noco said:
Ya gotta keep Australia MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVING FOOOOOOOOOOOOOORWARD.

But to do that you have to borrow, was called investing in the future.

But now we move the otherway, BACKWARDS, with a surplass.

sptrawler · 27 April 2014

explod said:
But to do that you have to borrow, was called investing in the future.

But now we move the otherway, BACKWARDS, with a surplass.

You are right plod, it's a shame Labor didn't win the election.

If Labor had won, we would have a surplus real soon, as Wayne kept promising.

Also we wouldn't have any budget cuts, only extra budget spending on Gonski, NDIS, extra 10,000 asylum seekers.

Ah the good old days, where you get cheques in the mail to buy a t.v, what a life.

sydboy007 · 27 April 2014

noco said:
Ya gotta keep Australia MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVING FOOOOOOOOOOOOOORWARD.

Meaningful tax reform is moving forward. Unless there's some major surprises on budget night I'd say Abbott and Hockey are all about keeping in place.

Check out page 12 of the attachment and see if you think we're getting reasonable value for the 10s of billions in tax expenditures that successive Governments have bequeathed to the rentier classes.

The top 4 amount to over $61B. Broadening the GST base could net around $16B in extra revenue, providing enough money to cut income AND corporate taxes while providing a far more stable income base for the states than stamp duty. The efficiency gains would amount to billions of extra economic activity.

drsmith · 27 April 2014

sydboy007 said:
Meaningful tax reform is moving forward. Unless there's some major surprises on budget night I'd say Abbott and Hockey are all about keeping in place.

Check out page 12 of the attachment and see if you think we're getting reasonable value for the 10s of billions in tax expenditures that successive Governments have bequeathed to the rentier classes.

The top 4 amount to over $61B. Broadening the GST base could net around $16B in extra revenue, providing enough money to cut income AND corporate taxes while providing a far more stable income base for the states than stamp duty. The efficiency gains would amount to billions of extra economic activity.

It is inevitable that the GST will be increased, either as an increase to the rate or broadening of the base (or both ). It's just a question of how long it takes cash strapped state governments to go to the feds with the unified begging bowl in hand.

I would prefer to see a broadening of the base. This would reduce the complexity between GST free/GST items and represent how it was originally intended to be implemented. It will depend though on what compromises have to be made with balance of power senators. The base of the current GST was after all a compromise with the Democrats.

noco · 28 April 2014

noco said:
Ya gotta keep Australia MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVING FOOOOOOOOOOOOOORWARD.

Ahla Juliar Gillard.

sydboy007 · 28 April 2014

drsmith said:
It is inevitable that the GST will be increased, either as an increase to the rate or broadening of the base (or both ). It's just a question of how long it takes cash strapped state governments to go to the feds with the unified begging bowl in hand.

I would prefer to see a broadening of the base. This would reduce the complexity between GST free/GST items and represent how it was originally intended to be implemented. It will depend though on what compromises have to be made with balance of power senators. The base of the current GST was after all a compromise with the Democrats.

States can follow the lead of the ACT and bring in a broadly based progressive land tax.

It works well in the USA as each state has varying levels of land tax so there's competition at the taxation level too. It's a very stable tax in terms of revenue with the added advantange of being extremely efficient to collect and far less distorting that stamp duties and pretty much any other form of tax.

The tools to resolve our Government revenue problems are within easy reach. The problem is there's no political will to actually make the changes. The fact we have such divisiveness between the political parties also makes any meaningful reform difficult, but I still believe good policy is eventually rewarded by voters.

noco · 28 April 2014

explod said:
But to do that you have to borrow, was called investing in the future.

But now we move the otherway, BACKWARDS, with a surplass.

Maybe we should clear our guilty conscience and hand back our $900 cheques compliments of the Labor Party, because we are now going to pay it back whether we like it or not.

McLovin · 28 April 2014

I think the idea of a debt levy is one of the most comical things to come out of Canberra in years. Just fix the freakin' problem on the revenue and spending side and get on with it.

noco · 28 April 2014

McLovin said:
I think the idea of a debt levy is one of the most comical things to come out of Canberra in years. Just fix the freakin' problem on the revenue and spending side and get on with it.

What are your suggestions? ......I would certainly not like to be in Hockey's shoe trying to clean up the mess created by Labor 2007 to 2013 and Hawke and Keating agree.

Calliope · 28 April 2014

noco said:
What are your suggestions? ......I would certainly not like to be in Hockey's shoe trying to clean up the mess created by Labor 2007 to 2013 and Hawke and Keating agree.

Hockey doesn't sound so cocky lately.

McLovin · 28 April 2014

noco said:
What are your suggestions? ......I would certainly not like to be in Hockey's shoe trying to clean up the mess created by Labor 2007 to 2013 and Hawke and Keating agree.

The debt is not a problem, the trajectory of the budget is. I can't think of anything more idiotic than even pretending to fix the budget problem with a "levy" that will be phased out by the next election.

So what are my suggestions? Get rid of NG, roll back family allowance, scrap that moronic PPL, start taxing pension payments out of super over a certain amount, increase the GST, remove the CGT discount, bring back indexation of fuel excise. It wouldn't surprise me if after all that you had some wiggle room for personal income tax cuts and a cut to the company tax rate, which is overdue, IMO.

The government's redistributive power should be used to create a safety net and should be genuinely redistributive. At the moment it's taking from Peter to pay Peter.

sydboy007 · 28 April 2014

McLovin said:
So what are my suggestions? Get rid of NG, roll back family allowance, scrap that moronic PPL, start taxing pension payments out of super over a certain amount, increase the GST, remove the CGT discount, bring back indexation of fuel excise. It wouldn't surprise me if after all that you had some wiggle room for personal income tax cuts and a cut to the company tax rate, which is overdue, IMO.

I agree with all except maybe just broadening the GST base instead of raising it, and encouraging the states to introduce a land tax and get rid of the stupid stamp duties, especially on insurance.

This levy idiocy is purely for politics. Just admit it's a tax, because at the end of the day if the Government is taxing a % of extra money from me then it's a fracking tax.

The Abbott Government

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