Taiwan

[Sean K]

Can't find an appropriate thread for this so started one with a general title - Taiwan. The big deal at the moment is obviously a potential Chinese invasion in the next decade. It's probably been put back by Chinese strategic planners due to Russia's failure in Ukraine and the West rallying behind the democratic defenders. Same thing will probably happen in a Chinese /Taiwan stouch.

Did anyone know the US had military trainers in Taiwan already and it's increasing? I was surprised to see this recently, it's been very low key, but I can't believe China didn't know and don't understand why they haven't gone nuts about it.

 

[Knobby22]

Can't find an appropriate thread for this so started one with a general title - Taiwan. The big deal at the moment is obviously a potential Chinese invasion in the next decade. It's probably been put back by Chinese strategic planners due to Russia's failure in Ukraine and the West rallying behind the democratic defenders. Same thing will probably happen in a Chinese /Taiwan stouch.

Did anyone know the US had military trainers in Taiwan already and it's increasing? I was surprised to see this recently, it's been very low key, but I can't believe China didn't know and don't understand why they haven't gone nuts about it.

View attachment 153577

Officially Taiwan is a rebel province that belongs to China. In reality it is an important bastion of democracy that also produces much of the world's semiconductor needs.

 

[Sean K]

Officially Taiwan is a rebel province that belongs to China. In reality it is an important bastion of democracy that also produces much of the world's semiconductor needs.

It's a complicated history, isn't it. There's arguments for and against Taiwan being part of the CCP controlled East Asia, or not. Mao probably made a mistake by not chasing the old chinese leadership over the Straight to destroy the old government completely. Maybe the US should have occupied Taiwan after the war and left it part of Japan. Lots could have happened, but we're stuck with what we've got. Under current leadership, Taiwan wants to remain democratic self ruling and China wants to have them by force if necessary.

I think this will be another battle of democracy versus dictatorship.

 

[IFocus]

The reality is that Taiwan is a Chinese asset I think the question is how it returns to mainland control not if.

The how may well be a result of how the CCP are travelling and issues around the leadership.

 

[rederob]

The big deal at the moment is obviously a potential Chinese invasion in the next decade. It's probably been put back by Chinese strategic planners due to Russia's failure in Ukraine and the West rallying behind the democratic defenders.

Why would China invade China?
Australia and America and most of the rest of the world recognise Taiwan as a part of China.
The idea that the Ukrainian conflict somehow affects China's position is baseless.

Same thing will probably happen in a Chinese /Taiwan stouch.

Sheer speculation. The rest of the world did nothing when Russia took Crimea - internationally recognised as sovereign territory of Ukraine - and continued to do nothing to help Ukraine when Russia tried to take Ukraine in 2022... UNTIL Ukraine proved it could defend itself. Even today the west will not give Ukraine the long range weaponry it needs to prevent Russian attacks from Crimea. NATO is at Ukraine's doorstep and still will not step onto Ukrainian land or into their air space to assist.
Look at a map of the world and Taiwan has nobody nearby, nor does it have a seat in the UN, for obvious reasons.

Did anyone know the US had military trainers in Taiwan already and it's increasing? I was surprised to see this recently, it's been very low key, but I can't believe China didn't know and don't understand why they haven't gone nuts about it.

Since WWII no country in the world can match America's ability to actively destabilise nations and embark on military transgressions in the name of democracy. We owe the North Korea we see today to America, and the Iraq, Iran, Libya and Afghanistan, plus many lesser nations to their so called world sherif role.
Cutting the story short, military strategists know that for China to bring Taiwan under its umbrella only involves a blockade. For the rest of the world to counter such a move would require them to relinquish their "one China" policies and tap dance around how protecting a democracy trumped intervening in a nation's internal affairs. Then there would be the actual matter of how any foreign nation planned to intervene without an actual declaration of war against China under international conventions. In such a case China is protected by Article 39 of the United Nations Charter. Accordingly, if Australia or any other nation wanted to regard itself as upholding international rules of law then they should abide by the Charter they have signed. Today's duplicity on the matter is palpable.

There are absolutely no parallels between the Ukrainian conflict and China's stance on Taiwan.

 

[farmerge]

Why would China invade China?
Australia and America and most of the rest of the world recognise Taiwan as a part of China.
The idea that the Ukrainian conflict somehow affects China's position is baseless.

Sheer speculation. The rest of the world did nothing when Russia took Crimea - internationally recognised as sovereign territory of Ukraine - and continued to do nothing to help Ukraine when Russia tried to take Ukraine in 2022... UNTIL Ukraine proved it could defend itself. Even today the west will not give Ukraine the long range weaponry it needs to prevent Russian attacks from Crimea. NATO is at Ukraine's doorstep and still will not step onto Ukrainian land or into their air space to assist.
Look at a map of the world and Taiwan has nobody nearby, nor does it have a seat in the UN, for obvious reasons.

Since WWII no country in the world can match America's ability to actively destabilise nations and embark on military transgressions in the name of democracy. We owe the North Korea we see today to America, and the Iraq, Iran, Libya and Afghanistan, plus many lesser nations to their so called world sherif role.
Cutting the story short, military strategists know that for China to bring Taiwan under its umbrella only involves a blockade. For the rest of the world to counter such a move would require them to relinquish their "one China" policies and tap dance around how protecting a democracy trumped intervening in a nation's internal affairs. Then there would be the actual matter of how any foreign nation planned to intervene without an actual declaration of war against China under international conventions. In such a case China is protected by Article 39 of the United Nations Charter. Accordingly, if Australia or any other nation wanted to regard itself as upholding international rules of law then they should abide by the Charter they have signed. Today's duplicity on the matter is palpable.

There are absolutely no parallels between the Ukrainian conflict and China's stance on Taiwan.

As I understand it about Taiwan and china from my schhol days eons ago. Cheng Kai Shek the then leader in China proper did not foresee Mao becoming a force and consequently scurried over to Taiwan with his followes in 1940 something. Hence the 2 Chinas. Sean Is absolutely right not 2 but 1 China. Taiwan is probbly living on a dream even if it is 60 years old.

 

[moXJO]

Taiwan produces semiconductors that the west needs.

The end.

 

[wayneL]

The reality is that Taiwan is a Chinese asset I think the question is how it returns to mainland control not if.

The how may well be a result of how the CCP are travelling and issues around the leadership.

Maybe mainland China is a Taiwan asset.

Probably won't work out that way, but worth considering as a long shot, all things considered.

 

[farmerge]

Taiwan produces semiconductors that the west needs.

The end.

That maybe so but with 1.2 billion sitting on the doorstep .........well only time

 

[farmerge]

Maybe mainland China is a Taiwan asset.

Probably won't work out that way, but worth considering as a long shot, all things considered.

Slightly different but Hong Kong was a lease, and a power house country, now under the smiling Chinaman's gaze.

 

[Sean K]

The reality is that Taiwan is a Chinese asset I think the question is how it returns to mainland control not if.

The how may well be a result of how the CCP are travelling and issues around the leadership.

I don't think so. Modern China is a relatively new country. Previous to WW2, and way back further, it was nothing like they claim it should be now. The nine dash line is a joke. The boundaries of countries have changed infinitum over 1000s of years. Borders change because of relative power.

 

[farmerge]

I don't think so. Modern China is a relatively new country. Previous to WW2, and way back further, it was nothing like they claim it should be now. The nine dash line is a joke. The boundaries of countries have changed infinitum over 1000s of years. Borders change because of relative power.

Conquor, take over control and rule. Mongolia, Tibet

 

[rederob]

Modern China is a relatively new country.

True. as that's what "modern" means.

Previous to WW2, and way back further, it was nothing like they claim it should be now.

Word salad?

The nine dash line is a joke.

Check Chinese marine history. It's also no coincidence that China's claims are based on their sailing abilities having invented the compass and made forays into the Middle East during the Qing dynasty. Gavin Menzies even has them visiting New Zealand before Cook.
The Qin dynasty took control of Taiwan proper in the second century BC so China's claims over many islands in the South China Sea has legitimate claims preceding all other nations/empires.

The boundaries of countries have changed infinitum over 1000s of years. Borders change because of relative power.

This is historical bunkum and also does not account for island possession.
The concept of countries - or nations, or "states" as is internationally preferred - is relatively modern. Prior to them were empires, dynasties or kingdoms, and none had actual borders that had any basis beyond either actual occupancy or claim.
For example, Britain "claimed" Australia by occupancy and a flag before the French or Dutch and had to be prepared to militarily defend this claim.
The concept of states was only given international and legal legitimacy in the 20th century, and to this day there remain many parts of the globe where land and sea title are disputed.

 

[Sean K]

Why would China invade China?
Australia and America and most of the rest of the world recognise Taiwan as a part of China.
The idea that the Ukrainian conflict somehow affects China's position is baseless.

Sheer speculation. The rest of the world did nothing when Russia took Crimea - internationally recognised as sovereign territory of Ukraine - and continued to do nothing to help Ukraine when Russia tried to take Ukraine in 2022... UNTIL Ukraine proved it could defend itself. Even today the west will not give Ukraine the long range weaponry it needs to prevent Russian attacks from Crimea. NATO is at Ukraine's doorstep and still will not step onto Ukrainian land or into their air space to assist.
Look at a map of the world and Taiwan has nobody nearby, nor does it have a seat in the UN, for obvious reasons.

Since WWII no country in the world can match America's ability to actively destabilise nations and embark on military transgressions in the name of democracy. We owe the North Korea we see today to America, and the Iraq, Iran, Libya and Afghanistan, plus many lesser nations to their so called world sherif role.
Cutting the story short, military strategists know that for China to bring Taiwan under its umbrella only involves a blockade. For the rest of the world to counter such a move would require them to relinquish their "one China" policies and tap dance around how protecting a democracy trumped intervening in a nation's internal affairs. Then there would be the actual matter of how any foreign nation planned to intervene without an actual declaration of war against China under international conventions. In such a case China is protected by Article 39 of the United Nations Charter. Accordingly, if Australia or any other nation wanted to regard itself as upholding international rules of law then they should abide by the Charter they have signed. Today's duplicity on the matter is palpable.

There are absolutely no parallels between the Ukrainian conflict and China's stance on Taiwan.

Sorry I didn't reply to this post Rob. I didn't see it because I've had you on ignore for about 12 months. I took it off today to see what the fuss was in the China thread. I now know why I had you on ignore as you can not have a civil discussion on just about anything. You always have to add some form of abuse into your posts for some reason. Why is that? So, please forgive me for not replying to any of your further comments as I won't be able to see them again. Best of luck, Sean

 

[IFocus]

Sorry I didn't reply to this post Rob. I didn't see it because I've had you on ignore for about 12 months. I took it off today to see what the fuss was in the China thread. I now know why I had you on ignore as you can not have a civil discussion on just about anything. You always have to add some form of abuse into your posts for some reason. Why is that? So, please forgive me for not replying to any of your further comments as I won't be able to see them again. Best of luck, Sean

Hmm what's that term again... snowflake that's a joke BTW, as traders and investors group think is our death Rob brings a counter view badly required and should be viewed as such with an open mind lest you become just another sheep in the flock, if your feelings are offended try making comments that are based on a social conscience or in the interests of any marginalized group.

Thankfully we are not all the same

 

[wayneL]

Hmm what's that term again... snowflake that's a joke BTW, as traders and investors group think is our death Rob brings a counter view badly required and should be viewed as such with an open mind lest you become just another sheep in the flock, if your feelings are offended try making comments that are based on a social conscience or in the interests of any marginalized group.

Thankfully we are not all the same

Rob does not bring a counter-view at all, rather, he parrots leftist agenda and talking points. After all, that was his profession.

Disclaimer: I have also had him on ignore for a long time.

 

[Sean K]

Hmm what's that term again... snowflake that's a joke BTW, as traders and investors group think is our death Rob brings a counter view badly required and should be viewed as such with an open mind lest you become just another sheep in the flock, if your feelings are offended try making comments that are based on a social conscience or in the interests of any marginalized group.

Thankfully we are not all the same

Nice joke. I'm all for a decent argument, but you don't have to abuse people or try to demean them in the process of bringing a counter view. I choose serenity, like many others have.

 

[farmerge]

Nice joke. I'm all for a decent argument, but you don't have to abuse people or try to demean them in the process of bringing a counter view. I choose serenity, like many others have.

There always seems to 1 or 2 or more that get right up the left nostel with their views, good, bad or indifferent. In the old Community days there were a couple as there are here. If I see their ramblings my time is not being wasted on reading them.

 

[IFocus]

Gents think about this.

Why would you let some one else (a complete stranger) determine how you feel?

Why, black writing on a screen!

Why would you hand over how you feel to a stranger unless you want to run "I am outraged syndrome".

 

[farmerge]

Gents think about this.

Why would you let some one else (a complete stranger) determine how you feel?

Why, black writing on a screen!

Why would you hand over how you feel to a stranger unless you want to run "I am outraged syndrome".

Evening Mr IFocus. I think that by somebody getting up the left nostrel is one thing, perhaps annoying, but for me doesn't determine how I will be or feel.
Though on occasions more so on the old now defunct site I did run the" I am outraged bit" along with a couple of knowledgeable contributors.