Storm Financial Group

Harleyquin said:

Maybe ASIC need some of the financial 'pros' on this forum as they can all see through storms model ...wonder if they could see through it pre collapse as well as they seem to be able to since the collapse occurred.

It never ceases to amaze me that all the experts have only come to the fore since storm went down the tube.

Seems we were the 'pros' pre collapse ie 'in favor of a proposition'

Now we have lots of 'pros' ie adverb for opinion... And lots of them.

Stay positive Frank and believe that everything happens for a reason. Maybe good things fall apart so that better things can be put back together.

Click to expand...

My contacts in Levitt's tell me that this Storm Financial Group thread is a de rigeur first read before their morning staff meeting.

I am unaware of ASIC's modus operandi, and have no contacts there as I generally avoid muppets.

gg

I'm also unaware of ASICs modus operandi. Considering ASICs questionable past performances there are many who are left wondering if they are aware of their own modus operandi!

Maybe some of the more " knowledgeable / I could see right through that storm model from the very start" types who inhabit this thread would be best suited for a job with ASIC or any of the Aussie banks???

Harleyquin said:

It never ceases to amaze me that all the experts have only come to the fore since storm went down the tube.

Click to expand...

Why do you keep on repeating this?
I can't imagine why you think anyone who had nothing to do with Storm Financial personally would ever even have heard of the organisation: a financial advisory service in a regional town in Queensland.
It was quite obviously only when the house of cards collapsed that the media picked it up and we learned what had happened.

Do you think we sit around wondering what to do with our time and think: "I know: I'll Google"

"Financial advisers promoting highly risky double gearing strategies for retirees"

Click to expand...

and expect Storm's name to come up?

Further, what if - on having the 'strategy' presented to you, you had come onto this forum and outlined it, asking for views of members?
What do you think the responses would have been to the question:

"I'm retired or about to retire and am considering engaging in a strategy where I will take out an equity loan for most of the value of my home, buy shares with these funds, and then additionally gear into the market by taking out a margin loan on those shares. Is this a safe, risk free strategy?"

There would have been some people here who would have shrugged and moved on to the next thread, basically in disbelief that anyone could consider such a plan.

But there would absolutely have been several people who would have taken the time to explain the huge danger in such a strategy and attempted to deter you from such massive risk.

The question is, HQ: Would you have listened?
I doubt it.

We're all very good at repeating ourselves on this thread Julia and you're one of the worst culprits.

You don't know me Julia so don't make hypothetical assumptions. You have no idea what I would or would not have done. Also if you'd been reading previous posts on this thread, you would know by now that the storm financial plan was not presented to us as you've stated.

I'm well aware that there are many of you who for whatever reason had never heard of storm until it collapsed. I wonder why you now choose to take such an active interest in this thread and why you take every opportunity to try to belittle us for accepting financial advice with storm. Who do you work for and what is your agenda Julia???

Harleyquin said:

We're all very good at repeating ourselves on this thread Julia and you're one of the worst culprits.

Click to expand...

Just responding to your comments.

Also if you'd been reading previous posts on this thread, you would know by now that the storm financial plan was not presented to us as you've stated.

Click to expand...

I fully appreciate that it was not presented to you as outlined above. They clearly had a terrific line in spin.
That's why it would have been good for you to have put up the spin version on a forum such as this and someone would have interpreted for you what you were unable to discern yourself.
That is not a criticism. It's just a simple fact.

I'm well aware that there are many of you who for whatever reason had never heard of storm until it collapsed. I wonder why you now choose to take such an active interest in this thread

Click to expand...

Because it is a sad but interesting situation with many participants all attempting to prevail. You may as well ask why the media continues to write about it.
There is nothing sinister or peculiar in members of a stock forum being interested in a financial collapse where many people have been so affected.

. Who do you work for and what is your agenda Julia???

Click to expand...

Oh dear. I don't work for anyone and have no 'agenda' other than as described above, i.e. a general interest in the outcome and whether that outcome dictates any changes in the industry in the future.

If you are due compensation, then I'll be happy to see you receive it.

I was not aware that ASF existed until after storm collapsed. I would have appreciated some advice back then. I've admitted several times that my biggest mistake was believing and trusting. You see a credited financial planner backed by Australia's largest banks and you feel that you're on safe ground. Well today we all know differently or this thread would not exist.

Any compensation will be a plus obviously but more than that I want to know exactly what these banks were up to with storm financial. If the problems were as blatantly obvious as you would have us believe Julia then all I can say is. The banks have a lot to answer for. This is no longer 'just about compensation" or " going after the banks because they have deep pockets". This is about wanting the truth and personally I want to see them in court. We haven't heard the truth yet.

And don't forget whole families have been destroyed by this and suicides are still continuing. You bet there are some in the banking fraternity that have a lot to answer for.

Tonight's episode of Four Corners, titled "Happy Banking", sounds like it could be quite interesting. Do any of our "connected" thread participants know whether Storm Financial will be getting a mention?

Harleyquin said:

Maybe ASIC need some of the financial 'pros' on this forum as they can all see through storms model ...wonder if they could see through it pre collapse as well as they seem to be able to since the collapse occurred.

It never ceases to amaze me that all the experts have only come to the fore since storm went down the tube.

Seems we were the 'pros' pre collapse ie 'in favor of a proposition'

Now we have lots of 'pros' ie adverb for opinion... And lots of them.

Stay positive Frank and believe that everything happens for a reason. Maybe good things fall apart so that better things can be put back together.

Click to expand...

Hi HQ,

ASIC is a shambles as it is without foisting the enlightened ones on it!

You’ll never convince some on this forum so it’s pointless trying. My father-in-law use to have a “swipe list” which contained the names of those people whom he had cut out of his life. There are some on this forum (the ‘Queen of Hearts’, the ‘Mad Hatter’, the ‘Easter Bunny’ and so on) who will give you a lot of grief if you let them! They will never change our opinions and we will never change theirs so why try? Best therefore to stick them on a swipe list and pretend they aren't there! They will soon tire of them own company!

Fortunately, there are others among us that may not agree with everything we say, but are willing to consider the issues on merit, weigh the facts, and present considered comment. Focus on those people and ignore the ones that just want to "big note" themselves.

Harleyquin said:

And don't forget whole families have been destroyed by this and suicides are still continuing.

Click to expand...

The very human not so happy face of this and other financial disasters.


Maccka

Harleyquin said:

I was not aware that ASF existed until after storm collapsed. I would have appreciated some advice back then. I've admitted several times that my biggest mistake was believing and trusting. You see a credited financial planner backed by Australia's largest banks and you feel that you're on safe ground. Well today we all know differently or this thread would not exist.

Click to expand...

Totally accepted, HQ. You don't know what you don't know, as Mr Rumsfeld so correctly observed.

The reason I asked you a few posts back if you'd be a bit more specific about what you say you've learned through all this was the hope that it would be to check out all information from any source. You may choose not to believe this, but most of us so adamantly opposed to Storm's ultra risky strategy can still understand how some of you were sucked in by their apparently very clever spin.

Just please don't keep saying that any of us so criticising Storm should have spoken out before it all fell apart. Most of us here were completely unaware of Storm and its manoeuvres. Believe me, if you'd put up on here what they were suggesting, you'd have received outspoken warnings about proceeding.

If the problems were as blatantly obvious as you would have us believe Julia then all I can say is. The banks have a lot to answer for.

Click to expand...

HQ, could you please try not to twist what I or others have said. We have only said that the strategy of double gearing into the stock market is fraught with danger, especially for retirees.

I don't know what the banks did or did not do. No one has ever made clear e.g. who provided the misinformation on the loan documentation.I don't want to rake all that up again and am just trying to stop the "you should have told us how risky it all was before it went bad" theme. We couldn't because we knew nothing about it.

When I say " if the problem were as blatantly obvious..." I wasn't referring specifically to you or in fact anyone in particular. Who I'm referring to are those within the banking industry who were very much aware of the high risk strategy and not only funded it but in one instance provided storm with their own BSB number. What were these people thinking when they financed such a heavily criticized operation? They knew they were putting people's financial lives at risk. If you know that then so did they. Of that you can be 100% sure.

The second issue you raise re who provided the misinformation. None of us know for sure, we can only guess at this stage. Either way it had to be storm or the bank or both. If it was storm then, storm had to provide the bank with documentation to substantiate any information they provided and the banking code of practice is for banks to double check all claims. Let's hope the truth about this comes out in court.

I have found out first hand just how dangerous double gearing is Julia. I don't think we need to be reminded of that fact. Also there were a lot of other factors which have also been discussed. What we were told would happen in a stock market crash didn't happen. We were told what safeguards were in place for one. We had no contact with any of the banks when storm applied for loans on our behalf and no correspondence warning us of risk. These were all sent to storm. At least this is how I see it. If I'm wrong then we'll see what happens when evidence is presented.

Hi Frank guess I'm saying 'could the enlightened ones have done a worse job..'

Thanks for info on the Swipe List love it and I apply this in some ways. May just have to formalize it and apply it in every case. I'll see how I go.

Youve got some great Wonderland characters there Frank ...Alice will be pleased. Happy Easter to you and Helen xxx

maccka said:

The very human not so happy face of this and other financial disasters.

Maccka

Click to expand...

Well, there will be a lot more 'human disasters' if people don't start taking some responsibility toward acquiring financial literacy.

Hopefully that would at least allow them to understand risk and not engage in schemes they don't understand.

I'd have thought such constructive pursuit of education would be a bit more productive than year after year of the sort of accusations and recriminations that have now been repeated dozens of times on this thread.

Harleyquin said:

You bet there are some in the banking fraternity that have a lot to answer for.

Click to expand...

Again, you (and others) seem to place your entire focus on the banks, rather than Storm. It was Storm who sold you on the massively risky scheme.

Julia said:

Well, there will be a lot more 'human disasters' if people don't start taking some responsibility toward acquiring financial literacy.

Hopefully that would at least allow them to understand risk and not engage in schemes they don't understand.

I'd have thought such constructive pursuit of education would be a bit more productive than year after year of the sort of accusations and recriminations that have now been repeated dozens of times on this thread.

Click to expand...

As I've said before, Julia, financial literacy needs to be taught from the age of 10 in schools. Giving each child a Savings Account with incentives for savers, and educating them on the options for later in life would be a start.

It won't help the Storm victims, but their grandchildren and great grandchildren may benefit.

Believe me, another Storm will occur.

gg

Garpal Gumnut said:

As I've said before, Julia, financial literacy needs to be taught from the age of 10 in schools. Giving each child a Savings Account with incentives for savers, and educating them on the options for later in life would be a start.

It won't help the Storm victims, but their grandchildren and great grandchildren may benefit.

Believe me, another Storm will occur.

gg

Click to expand...

In an ideal world, yes such teaching would occur in schools. However, as long as it doesn't, and as long as so many teachers are amongst the most financially illiterate adults I've ever met, it's up to individuals to learn what they need to.

People go and do courses on basket weaving, public speaking, writing their life histories and heaven knows what else, but they apparently don't find it necessary to get some understanding of something that's absolutely fundamental to a secure existence.

Just beats me.

Julia said:

People go and do courses on basket weaving, public speaking, writing their life histories and heaven knows what else, but they apparently don't find it necessary to get some understanding of something that's absolutely fundamental to a secure existence.

Just beats me.

Click to expand...

Great call Julia. And further, you have people who claim they don't have the time to worry about their finances. I have met people who have said this very thing, yet they spend 2 hours every night after work in front of the tv. You make time for something as important as your own finances...so many people seem to have their priorities completely screwed up.

There really is no excuse now for people to not even have a basic understanding of shares...almost every working Australian has exposure to them via super, the markets are quoted in the press every single day, and with the wealth of information freely available, people need to know and understand where their future is invested. Ignore or disrespect your finances at your own peril.

Quite apart from availing ourselves of the abundance of finance and investment education that’s freely available, I’ve found that just simply listening, watching and observing, and above all remembering, has been invaluable education.

For example, the 1987 market crash was an excellent lesson in what the stock market is capable of dishing out to us. It was on every news broadcast as it happened, including the stories of investors jumping out of windows of high rise office or apartment blocks when they found out they’d been wiped out overnight by margin calls. Yet so many people, when presented with the Storm strategy, failed to properly consider what effect another 1987-style crash would have on a 1 million or 2 million dollar market portfolio that was largely funded by margin loans.

Every single day, whether we want to or not, we read or hear news of the stock market – headlines such as ‘20 BILLION DOLLARS WIPED OFF AUSTRALIAN MARKET AS INVESTORS ARE SPOOKED BY EUROPEAN DEBT CRISIS’. This sort of headline is telling us loud and clear that the market is subject to sudden plunges. Yet we still we have people making stupid comments suggesting that ordinary people can’t be expected to know that the stock market has a history of downs as well as ups.

Another example was the Asian financial crisis in 1997, which of course affected Australia – another excellent lesson in finance and investment, but only for those who observed and remembered and took an interest.

ASIC is another example - many Stormers felt confident in the Storm strategy because it was ASIC-endorsed. Yet ASIC had been in the news for years beforehand for their dismal performance in spotting and closing down dodgy investment schemes. Given their well-documented history of poor performance, ASIC was hardly an orgainsation to inspire confidence in investors. Simply reading or listening to the news and absorbing and retaining the information, would have made people aware of ASIC’s shortcomings.

In short, we can learn a heck of a lot about investment just by watching and listening and keeping abreast of world events, daily market reports, and such like.
Whether we’re interested in doing so or not, we should make ourselves do it for our own benefit.
I’m not much interested in computers, and I didn’t learn them at school, but for my own benefit I did a short computer course so I’d know how to use them.
Women might not be much interested in martial arts, yet many have done self defense courses so they can handle themselves if necessary in a dangerous situation.
I’m not much interested in motor mechanics, but I did a short course so I’d at least have sufficient knowledge to do basic repairs and maintenance on my vehicles.
My kids are not interested in becoming racing car drivers, yet they all did defensive driving courses so they know how to handle dangerous driving situations, or avoid getting into dangerous situations in the first place.

If Storm investors had taken more of an interest in getting themselves investment-literate by using the many free resources available, and by observing and learning from world events, they may well have avoided getting sucked into a highly risky investment scheme that was passed off as safe and conservative.

In this day and age, there's just no reasonable excuse for getting near retirement age without having learnt the basics of finance and personal investment.

Julia you've taken so much of what I and others have said and twisted it around to your own advantage. I have never said that my focus is solely on the banks. Again I ask who do you work for and what is your agenda as it's become very obvious that you have one.

You and your like minded on this forum are prepared to ignore the shortcomings of the financial planner and bank with your ludicrous claims that we have to take responsibility for this. That's ridiculous. We paid for their financial expertise.

I'm actually watching 'Four Corners' and there's a very interesting story on Bank West and CBA and the criticisms of the banks is on a par with our experiences. It's called 'unhappy Banking". To quote something from this program "we can't have a David and Goliath situation where the boys from the big end of town ride roughshod over the little bloke". That's exactly what they've done and are continuing to do.

Interesting too that the CBA bought Bank West at exactly the same time they closed storm down. These bankers have no interest in the little bloke he is purely a cash cow to them. They have a lack of ethics and morals and that needs investigating thoroughly. Why are you willing to excuse the banks for their obvious shortcomings Julia??? Do you work for one of them???