Thanks Clovie,
Another reinforcement for me of one thing that has always been at the back of my mind and this thread has confirmed in a way in that why one person takes a particular path and another doesn't is apparently an individualistic thing.
Though it still perplexes me why, when doubts by some individuals were increasing markedly, they still followed the advisers suggesting to increase debt instead of just saying No. Even read of one case in the submissions to the Parliamentary Inquiry where one couple hid from their adviser the fact that they had spare cash but seemingly could not face the adviser to instruct him/her to get them out of the market. Amazing stuff.
And now they are destitute, it is all someone else's fault..
And now they are destitute, it is all someone else's fault. I am sure there will be conmen in Townsville running their hands together in anticipation of Storm investors being awarded compensation over this whole mess...
I did have the ability to pay out my margin call, however I never got one. If only the banks gave me one phone call things would be so different. Wonder why the media is so quiet, maybe they are helping their own with secret deals!!! The whole thing is abhorrent. The heads of the banks know their wrong doings and think they can hide. It won't happen. They are gone and so many will be found out!!!!
Perhaps simply consider that until something further happens with Storm, there's really nothing for the media to be interested in, given they have a hugely broader spectrum of interest than just one financial services debacle.Wonder why the media is so quiet, maybe they are helping their own with secret deals!!!
(snip)
As I recently stated to GG, nothing about our cases is straightforward. There are a plethora of different issues and they are many facetted. Therefore, no one has the answers at this stage. Certainly, not me or anyone else on this website. I therefore hasten to add that what I state here is based on my own knowledge of the Law and should not be considered Gospel because I am not, after all, a lawyer. A fellow victim was quick to point this out in a recent email he sent to me in which he quoted a Jewish proverb:
"He who glorifies himself in his knowledge of the law is like a dead beast at the side of the road. Sure it attracts the attention of those passing by - but they all hold their hand to their nose for it stinks!" I gather from this that he didn't agree with my assessment of all this?
Certainly something stinks about this whole business and the smell is not wholly emanating from my carcass at the side of the road.
If nothing else, the forthcoming trial promises to be fascinating when the lawyers strut their stuff.
Bunyip,
You have quoted conditions from a typical CBA margin loan and state that because these conditions are clearly outlined, “the onus is on the borrower to monitor his portfolio and determine when the loan is subject to a margin call”.
So why do you think ASIC and we are litigating against these Banks if it’s all that simple? The fact of the matter is that it isn’t and it’s therefore quite wrong in the case of Storm and the Banks for anyone to look at everything in insolation. The issues involved are far more complex than that! If everything were that straightforward and aboveboard, then the Banks wouldn’t be facing the charges that have currently been brought against them.
Frank, as part of the CML info came from a post I made I thought I would comment.
1. Under the terms and conditions the client (victim) also had a responsibility to CML and themselves to keep an eye on things.
2. As previously discussed I personally think the imprudent lending claim will cover around 10% of storm clients. In most cases due to the fact that the banks, certainly the margin lenders, were working within legal framework at them time, will be found that the lending was in fact quite prudent and reasonable on information provided on the application forms.
3. Goodridge had the ability to cover his margin loan. 90% of storm clients were completely tapped out.
4. Not that I have any direct exposure to any banking stocks but as a depositor I would hope that the bank put in place adequate protection before onlending my money to others. Whether this be for a home, investment, vehicle, whatever. As such I am glad they were able to recover monies from parties they had lent to. I think borrowers in most cases think the bank should be grateful for the business, it is the other way around, being lent money (other peoples savings) is a priviledge that should be taken much more seriously than currently occurs in Australian society.
There is only one original painting. How can it be rented out to dozens of people at once?If the banks could do the same thing with paintings, you could leave your fine art with them for safekeeping and they could rent that same original painting out to dozens of people at once.
There is only one original painting. How can it be rented out to dozens of people at once?
<snip>
“How Banks Work
The original idea of banking is you would give your money to the bank for safekeeping. They would lend some of it out, and give you a cut of the interest they received. In return the bank took the risk of the loan defaulting, and handling all the details of making the loans and collecting the payments. The bank attempts to lend money mainly to people who don’t need it since they have the best chance of paying it back, hence the invention of the credit card and minimum monthly payment.
The banks today don’t quite create money out of thin air to lend, but close.
Consider this simplified version. Imagine an isolated town with only one bank. Somebody comes into the bank and deposits $1000.
<snip>
I mean lending the same money over and over at the same time to different people.
If the banks could do the same thing with paintings, you could leave your fine art with them for safekeeping and they could rent that same original painting out to dozens of people at once. It would be considered a form of temporary counterfeiting.
The whole game depends on the fact that when people borrow money, they usually keep it in a bank, not necessarily the same bank, even though they are not strictly required to, so that it becomes subject to re-lending.
The right of the banks to lend out the same money over and over is equivalent to the right the print temporary money. Just like printing real money, this ability causes inflation. The more money there is, the less each dollar is worth. Many people, myself included, think there is no reason banks should be granted what effectively amounts to a get-out-of-jail-free-for-counterfeiting card. The ability to be the goose that lays the golden eggs should be reserved for the government. Otherwise it forfeits much of its control over the money supply and inflation."
Even if only part of this is true, it doesn’t encourage me to share your sympathy for banks. We, their customers, are the ones that require sympathy if you ask me!
Rather than explain and argue on this I recommend that everyone try to find a TV series called the ascent of money done by Niall Ferguson.
Frank - When the bank lent you money for your first home, your first business loan, did you feel responsible to keep an eye on things? I suspect the answer is yes as you would have wanted to keep the house and business running and to establish a good credit rating. Why did so many ignore this responsibility just because it was for investment / speculation on the stockmarket? Because Storm said "she'll be right, we got this"? Pity
Again, Goodridge had money to meet the margin call if he had received it. He has a grievance. If Storm clients had got their margin call they had no money to meet the call in the majority of cases. All that would have happened would have been an earlier sell out. I have already put my position forward many times saying clients that were sold out should be considered to have been sold out at the correct time, not 3-8 weeks late.
If the bulk of clients can't claim imprudent lending, then why are we going through this process? It seems to be what the case is based on.
You confuse my banks lending paragraph. It is not the bank's money. It is MY money they are lending. As such I want to ensure MY money is protected from morons who want to borrow it to gamble on things they don't understand.
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