Storm Financial Group

Harleyquin said:

.....Judd and co, go away and do some real research instead of coming back with your usual uninformed garbage.

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I did do some real research and I have you to thank for that Harleyquin. Much appreciated. Your use of the term Piggy Bank got me curious and led me to the APRA site. Lot's of fascinating stuff there. Thanks again and all the best.

Harleyquin said:

Julia at long last we agree on something.

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Do we? What's that?

shibby said:

Sorry to disappoint you Julie I am not unhappy, I am not damaged, I am wiser

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I'm glad to hear it.

Why dont you and Julia and Bunyip and Judd talk about who you really are?

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Then we would probably be accused of being egocentric.

It genuinely puzzles me why you, HQ et al are even members of this forum.
Forums are where people come to exchange information, usually with the aim of learning from those who have greater expertise in a particular area. If you looked at some of the other threads you would see that people are very quick to disagree and criticise strategies or comments from others with which they disagree. That's what makes forums so useful, i.e. they provide alternative ways of thinking about a topic or problem.

You don't appear to have any interest in learning anything and are seemingly just looking for support, i.e. responses which agree with the contention that you had no reason to not blindly accept advice offered without considering how much risk that placed on your home and/or other assets.

Doesn't SICAG exist as a support group? Wouldn't you be more comfortable there where I imagine your co-members have as their priority comfort and kindness, rather than objective comments?

shibby said:

1, My questions to you are have you read any of the submissions to the Ripoll Parliamentary Inquiry?

2, Are you just a wizz kid trader who sits on the computer and knows nothing about life and what really happened?

3, Educate your self about this disaster and then make a comment -

4, you are saying nothing new you are just making the same statement that we have heard time and time and time again and it is so boring.

5, I bet you haven't even read the earlier posts on this forum you have simply jumped in to bash us becuase you think we are down and out.

6, I am not unhappy, I am not damaged, I am wiser and I am determined to see this through to the end -

7, it has been a long 3 years but guess what we are still here still fighting because we are in the right.

8, We might have been gullible even naive but we are generations of fighters and will not give in till the end. Win or lose we will see it through because that's who we are.

9. Why dont you and Julia and Bunyip and Judd talk about who you really are?

10, By your posts you look like just bullies who get off on other peoples misfortune because you feel like c**p.

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1, No, I don't really see the need for a Parliamentary Inquiry, Seems like a waste of time and money.

2, No, Not a whizz kid or a trader. I know a bit about things, I run a successful business and operate a successful investment operation.

3, I have done a bit of reading on the storm subject over the past few years.

4, Well if you keep hearing maybe there is some truth in it, Maybe listen to it.

5, I read read alot of this thread over the years, it is a giant thread, so I can't so I heave read everything though,

6, Good for you thats the spirit.

7, What exactly do you want to see happen, Do you believe your financel position should be completely restored, I personally believe you should be made to pay back every you lost in the gamble.

8, ummm,... OK. Sounds to me like you would do better to put your passionate effort to better use.

9, I am quite open with what I do on various thread,

10, No, I just take personal responibilty very seriously and I hate "Poor me syndrome". And when people fly in the face of all the established investment principles and it blows up on them I have very little sympathy.

I believe in letting people fail if they make bad decisions, I have lost money in the past, But I never blamed anyone else, It is always 100% my fault. I take resposiblity for all of my failures and successes.


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Then we would probably be accused of being egocentric.

What! your not?

It genuinely puzzles me why you, HQ et al are even members of this forum.

Why are you?

Forums are where people come to exchange information, usually with the aim of learning from those who have greater expertise in a particular area.

What a hoot – you really believe that you have some thing to contribute apart from the theme of “we are to admit that we were stupid in not seeing the enormous risks involved”.

If you looked at some of the other threads you would see that people are very quick to disagree and criticise strategies or comments from others with which they disagree. That's what makes forums so useful, i.e. they provide alternative ways of thinking about a topic or problem.

I would love this to be a forum where ideas are exchanged I tried that years ago and I am so thankful to people like Solly and Carey Ramm who gave such good common sense advice when I needed it so badly there was a sense then of a joint effort for us to survive. Then it changed into a quest of what actually happened and again the Aussie Stock Forum site was invaluable. if I was to lose my house and all my money I needed to know why and I was determined to find out. Over the years there was such a great input of ideas and information and little by little it came together of course having a parliamentary inquiry and then the Worrells Inquiry also helped.

You don't appear to have any interest in learning anything and are seemingly just looking for support, i.e. responses which agree with the contention that you had no reason to not blindly accept advice offered without considering how much risk that placed on your home and/or other assets.

Personally I don’t want any support from you I cant speak for others of course I don’t think for a moment you would be capable of giving support in any form because you don’t listen (if this was a conversation) which of course it is not, you simply read with your brain shut off as everything is set around your own agenda and it’s the same ol same ol here we go again “to not blindly accept advice offered without considering how much risk that placed on your home and/or other assets.”

Doesn't SICAG exist as a support group? Wouldn't you be more comfortable there where I imagine your co-members have as their priority comfort and kindness, rather than objective comments?

I don’t belong to SICAG.

Tysonboss1 said:

1, No, I don't really see the need for a Parliamentary Inquiry, Seems like a waste of time and money.

2, No, Not a whizz kid or a trader. I know a bit about things, I run a successful business and operate a successful investment operation.

3, I have done a bit of reading on the storm subject over the past few years.

4, Well if you keep hearing maybe there is some truth in it, Maybe listen to it.

5, I read read alot of this thread over the years, it is a giant thread, so I can't so I heave read everything though,

6, Good for you thats the spirit.

7, What exactly do you want to see happen, Do you believe your financel position should be completely restored, I personally believe you should be made to pay back every you lost in the gamble.

8, ummm,... OK. Sounds to me like you would do better to put your passionate effort to better use.

9, I am quite open with what I do on various thread,

10, No, I just take personal responibilty very seriously and I hate "Poor me syndrome". And when people fly in the face of all the established investment principles and it blows up on them I have very little sympathy.

I believe in letting people fail if they make bad decisions, I have lost money in the past, But I never blamed anyone else, It is always 100% my fault. I take resposiblity for all of my failures and successes.


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You lost any credibility on point 1. and when down hill rapidly from then on

B, J & TB you have all demonstrated by your posts that you have no interest in how Storm Financial operated, how the banking fraternity worked in conjunction with them, why clients accepted this advice or how it's affected them.

TB again you've posted several extremely uneducated posts. Tell me, what is the roll of a financial advisor? You obviously have no idea.

I used to think financial advisors were highly educated people who were 'trained' to offer legitimate financial advice. So I made a huge mistake in believing that and them. Today I know different and it's people like you and your attitude that reinforce this belief.

Are you happy with these people masquerading as financial advisors, do you think what they are doing is criminal or don't you care either way.

I believe it is important that all financial planners know their stuff and clients know they can trust their advice. Your comments are a copout.

Solly youre right CAS has definitely pervaded this thread. I made a belated new years resolution that if that's what it takes bring it on.

J It continues to puzzle me why you bother with the SF thread as you've shown no interest in the problems that created this mess. You are only interested in discussing financial issues that are quite unrelated to this thread as your recent post regarding bank shares over the past five years, during which time we experienced the GFC.

ASF has numerous threads which may suit you far better than this one. Personally I feel very comfortable on this thread discussing anything related directly to storm. I wouldn't discuss storm on another thread in any detail.

I see nothing wrong with offering emotional support to others and I see nothing wrong with asking for support wherever and whenever I need it. That however is not why I'm here. Recently when FA mentioned the r*** word in a hypothetical you were the first person to take him the wrong way and to seek emotional support. Again I'm happy to offer you what emotional support I can but don't criticize others for doing the same.

Harleyquin said:

You are only interested in discussing financial issues that are quite unrelated to this thread as your recent post regarding bank shares over the past five years, during which time we experienced the GFC.

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Let's get this clear: you made the comment that people were telling you that their bank shares were doing terrifically well. You said you didn't know what to believe.
As a consequence, I took the time to tell you how you could ascertain for yourself whether bank shares were in fact doing well.
I did at the time receive some messages telling me I was wasting my time in trying to help you because you clearly had no interest in being other than a victim.

It's up to you whether you take advantage of someone trying to be helpful.
I'm still glad I gave you the option.

ASF has numerous threads which may suit you far better than this one. Personally I feel very comfortable on this thread discussing anything related directly to storm. I wouldn't discuss storm on another thread in any detail.

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??? I don't suppose you would. The participants in a thread that had nothing to do with Storm wouldn't have a clue about what you were talking about.

Recently when FA mentioned the r*** word in a hypothetical you were the first person to take him the wrong way and to seek emotional support.

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What absolute rubbish. I objected strongly to his analogy and said why. That is not "seeking emotional support". I've since regretted being so disgusted that I gave any personal history which has no place on this thread.

Again I'm happy to offer you what emotional support I can but don't criticize others for doing the same.

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HQ, I don't need emotional support from anyone, thanks. If I did, I wouldn't be looking for it on a stock forum.

"No light at end of Storm tunnel

Money remains very tight and Mark Weir has little joy in his life.

"There's great despair out there. People are just hanging on with their last threads of hope" he says."

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Full article by Anthony Marx on page 66 of the print edition of today's Courier Mail.

Harleyquin said:

B, J & TB you have all demonstrated by your posts that you have no interest in how Storm Financial operated, how the banking fraternity worked in conjunction with them, why clients accepted this advice or how it's affected them.

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Have to disagree here HQ.

Each of these posters and others have shown a great interest in how Storm operated, in fact, I believe that through the submissions to the PJC, posts on this forum and other media, most people not involved have a good indication of how Storm operated. And I think it is fair to say that no one here would think that they acted in a way you would hope professional financial advisers would act.

As for the banking fraternity and how they worked with Storm, at this stage, all we have are accusations which will be defended vigorously by the banks in court. I know you and people like Frank and idontgetit have already tried and prosecuted the banks, but most others would probably prefer to let the courts do their job, before we hang them out to dry. If they have broken the law, then they will rightly pay the price. I doubt anyone would disagree with that.

We also have a fair idea of how the whole saga has affected Storm clients through stories by posters and the media. However, unless someone has lived through the mess, they can’t fully understand what people have gone through....a bit like rape, you can imagine what it may be like, but how would you truly know unless you have been through it yourself? Frank apparently does.

And I think it is fair to say that posters have asked repeatedly why people took on the advice, but unfortunately, the victim mentality of many Storm victims on this forum has prevented us from getting to the real reasons for most.

If I may, I would like to quote Frank, who as you have mentioned several times, tends to articulate things so well. At the end of the day, these bolded words are at the heart of why you and others were ripped off by these people….

Frank Ainslie said:

In life nothing is written until we write it! The CHOICE and the POWER certainly does remain with each of us.

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Life is all about choices, we make them every day…small ones or life changing ones. We can go one way or the other. Many people, when they are faced with a life changing choice, such as investing their life savings with a third party, will give that choice the consideration its significance warrants; they will ensure they understand the strategy inside out and evaluate the risks versus the potential returns. And only then, would these people make a CHOICE. Unfortunately, it is obvious that so many Storm investors did not give this CHOICE such consideration.

When you sat in front of the Storm adviser for the first time, and every time after that, YOU had the CHOICE and the POWER:

• The choice whether to blindly follow their advice or bone up on the strategy to which you were committing your life savings to
• The choice whether to borrow against your house
• The choice whether to gear up via a margin loan
• The choice whether to keep gearing up when storm asked you to
• The choice to just leave everything in their hands, or to actually understand what you invested in
• The choice to remain invested as the market tumbled, or again to blindly accept Storm’s recommendations
• The choice to take responsibility for the choices you made above, amongst others, or to blame everyone else for your woes other than yourself.
Yep, you had choices alright….many of them. And YOU made them of your own free will, no one else.

SJG1974 said:

Have to disagree here HQ.
And I think it is fair to say that posters have asked repeatedly why people took on the advice, but unfortunately, the victim mentality of many Storm victims on this forum has prevented us from getting to the real reasons for most.

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What are the characteristics of victim mentality? How have they prevented you getting to the real reasons?

SJG1974 said:

Yep, you had choices alright….many of them. And YOU made them of your own free will, no one else.

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The problem with this statement is that it makes a HUGE (and constantly proven to be false in multiple fora) assumption. It assumes that Storm clients:
1a) were given all of the information they needed to make an informed choice/decision AND
1b) that it was possible for them to receive all of the information they needed in a timely manner.

There is also an argument to suggest that it also assumes that the banks and Storm were acting as per the legal contracts they offered and signed.

Cheers
Maccka

maccka said:

What are the characteristics of victim mentality? How have they prevented you getting to the real reasons?

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I am not sure if there is a specific definition of victim mentality Maccka, and I don't know whether you really want to know or are just stiring the pot...anyway I got this definition of victim mentality from another website...I think it explains the attitudes some Storm victims have shown on this forum:

"Victims do not look inward to determine if they bear any responsibility for what happens to them in life. They are so rivited on looking for someone to blame for their problems and misfortune that they fail to understand that everyone has problems at one time or another in life and each of us must accept personal responsibility for dealing with life’s challenges"


I think the denial of responsibility shown by several posters reflects a victim mentality. As a result, my opinion is that some posters have been less than truthful in detailing their real reasons behind going with Storm, perhaps because admitting you were greedy, for example, is too difficult to face up to.

maccka said:

The problem with this statement is that it makes a HUGE (and constantly proven to be false in multiple fora) assumption. It assumes that Storm clients:
1a) were given all of the information they needed to make an informed choice/decision AND
1b) that it was possible for them to receive all of the information they needed in a timely manner.

There is also an argument to suggest that it also assumes that the banks and Storm were acting as per the legal contracts they offered and signed.

Cheers
Maccka

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It doesn't make any assumptions at all.

Actually, if anything, the statement assumes is that every client who walked into Storm's doors made the choice to either go with them or walk away freely- noone forced them into doing something they didn't want to do. 75% walked away, 25% stayed and were financially ruined. 100% had the choice and made the decision themselves.

Whether they were fully informed or not is irrelevant in this context- noone else made the decision for these people, and therefore, as I and others have said ad nauseum, people should take responsibility for that.

SJ you too have decided you know exactly what happened between the storm client and advisor, when in fact your post makes it very very clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. Making uneducated assumptions is not the same as facts.

J true I had one person tell me how well their bank shares were doing and I mentioned it in a post, it doesnt mean for one moment that I'm interested in taking it further. Lers put it simply 1 if you're happy with your shares hang onto them or 2 if you're not get rid of them. You and others are right I'm not interested.

Like you J I've also had quite a number of stormies contact me regarding Bunyips and your comments. Your post regarding looking at bank shares over five years upset many. Personally I wish many of those I've spoken to would post then perhaps you, B and co would realize just how out of touch you are when it comes to understanding those affected by disaster.

As for having a victim mentality, I've been there and I'm over it, when this collapse occurred we were all mostly devastated and stunned, we have had to progress through all the steps of the grieving process, and the victim stage has been well and truly replaced by something much stronger. I'm well aware of what happened now we just have to wait and see what happens in court.

There are few forums for storm survivors to put their case forward, or to read for information/news and if you disagree with us that's your prerogative, it doesn't mean though that you understand or you're right. If you only want to discuss investment chose a more appropriate thread and stop the inappropriate stormy bashing.

Every stormy is in a different 'place' and many have been so badly burnt they will never get over it and remain very fragile. Most are elderly, have been conned and don't understand. Others are young and have moved on. The rest are somewhere in between.

All the news items are posted on this thread thanks to Solly. SICAG is a group for stormies but there are many family members not in storm who have seen their loved ones destroyed by this, and this forum is the one place they can come to for information. A public forum such as this is a great idea. It's just a shame that it is constantly peppered with childish and uninformed innuendo.

Harleyquin said:

SJ you too have decided you know exactly what happened between the storm client and advisor, when in fact your post makes it very very clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. Making uneducated assumptions is not the same as facts.

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Can you enlighten me HQ on some of my uneducated assumptons? The only way I will learn is if you point out my mistakes and tell me the facts.

Am I wrong in assuming that you made the choice to go with Storm and all of its advice? If I am wrong, then would you care to let me know who made those decisions on your behalf? If they coerced you, how did they do so?

If you were forced to do something against your will, then I would think charges could be laid.

SJ those figures 75% walked and 25% didn't are just a bit too convenient to quote. We were one of the ones to walk away after their information seminars. We went to storm quite sometime afterwards asking for a suitable financial plan for our needs. The information given at the seminars weren't even discussed by us or storm. Quite frankly it was so long after the information evenings that I can't even remember what was discussed at them. How do we 'fit into' these wonderful figures of yours.

I am sick of protagonists assuming that we all went along to some wonderful info session and was told 'do this this and this and we'll make you rich' and with that we all marched into their office and grabbed this highly risky 'plan' with both hands. How do you know what choices we were given? You haven't a clue that much is obvious by your post. There's a lot you don't know or understand. Just as there's a lot that we don't understand.

Harleyquin said:

SJ those figures 75% walked and 25% didn't are just a bit too convenient to quote. We were one of the ones to walk away after their information seminars. We went to storm quite sometime afterwards asking for a suitable financial plan for our needs. The information given at the seminars weren't even discussed by us or storm. Quite frankly it was so long after the information evenings that I can't even remember what was discussed at them. How do we 'fit into' these wonderful figures of yours.

I am sick of protagonists assuming that we all went along to some wonderful info session and was told 'do this this and this and we'll make you rich' and with that we all marched into their office and grabbed this highly risky 'plan' with both hands. How do you know what choices we were given? You haven't a clue that much is obvious by your post. There's a lot you don't know or understand. Just as there's a lot that we don't understand.

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The figures were quoted by a Storm representative in court from memory. granted, you wouldn't necesarily believe everything they say. However, it supports the point that not everyone was taken in by what Storm sold, in fact, more said no than yes. Why I wonder???

As for choices, you are right, I don't know of all the choices you had. But, like all people who saw Storm, you did have one choice...do I take their advice or don't I? As the figures I have used suggest, many more said no than yes.

And at every stage along the line, I assume you could have said either yes or no to any recommendations made by Storm. If you didn't have the choice, and were forced to do things you didn't want to, then I would think, as suggested previously, such action by Storm would be against the law and should be taken higher.

SJ exactly what we were told and exactly what questions we asked is something that I would only feel comfortable discussing if I had a taped record of our meeting with our storm advisor. There is a lot I've forgotten however we made sure we asked what we thought were the right questions and we were obviously given the 'right' answers.

I thought they were genuine and had no idea that we had to do all this research and all these other things we are now being told by other posters on this forum, that we should have done. GG said two plus years ago in a post to me "they fed you crap and you swallowed it", I felt sick and angry when he said that. Today I know it's true, that's exactly what happened.

I have never "only" blamed the banks involved with storm.

If c**p is what storm were spruiking, then the financial experts at the banks didn't swallow it they supported it to the tune of billions of $$$ - the question I feel justified in asking is "WHY".

Harleyquin said:

TB again you've posted several extremely uneducated posts. Tell me, what is the roll of a financial advisor? You obviously have no idea.

I used to think financial advisors were highly educated people who were 'trained' to offer legitimate financial advice. So I made a huge mistake in believing that and them. Today I know different and it's people like you and your attitude that reinforce this belief.

Are you happy with these people masquerading as financial advisors, do you think what they are doing is criminal or don't you care either way.

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I just want to say one thing from the out set, I don't use financial advisors, I have never met with a financel advisor and I don't plan on ever using a financel advisor.

But, I would suggest to people that when selecting a financel advisor if at any stage they feel like they are being sold or the advisor acts more like a sales man they should get up and leave.

An advisor should have the heart of a teacher, and you should feel like you are being taught. You should not feel like you are receiving a sales pitch. You should leave any meeting with the feeling that you have a better understanding of your operation and have leeds for you to go investigate further, possibly with other parties such as your acccountant, solicitor or trusted friend or council.

As a business man I can say that there have been occassions where I have gone to others for advice ( accounting, legal, technical, logistical etc etc), But I have never gone to somebody and asked them how to make money, or asked them to make money for me.

The below video is a a reading from benjiman graham, who died in 1972 he wrote the work many years prior in 1949, Please watch at least the first 3 mins, I think you will learn somthing, Perhaps if you read this book prior to your storm meetings you would be better off now.

Harleyquin said:

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If c**p is what storm were spruiking, then the financial experts at the banks didn't swallow it they supported it to the tune of billions of $$$ - the question I feel justified in asking is "WHY".

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Banks are in the business of lending money, They are not sooth sayers, They can't tell the future directions of markets, If you go to a bank and dazzel the guys that hold the purse with charts and data and reasoning as to how you can make money they will lend you money for a fee.

Offcourse they are going to try and set it up so that their losses are minimised should your plans fail, But it is not up to them to decide which industries get funded and which don't, they simply dole out the credit as best they can, and earn a margin on it,

If the bank were and expert in the industry they were lending to then they wouldn't need you as an intermediary, they would just make direct investments in it and keep the whole profit rather than just an interest margin.

If you want to put your house up as collateral to borrow $100K to go and blow on alcohol and strippers, as long as the bank feels they can't lose because they can take your house they will lend the dollars, They wouldn't see a difference between that and gambling on the market, or the ponys for that matter,

Some actions have already been taken against some of storms advisors. If most of us have our way they will all have some action taken against them unless they can prove that they've done nothing wrong.

In hindsight I can now see what you are saying, back then I didn't know they weren't on the level. If I'd known all this back then I would have done exactly as you say and continued to walk. Unfortunately for us I wanted them to help us formulate a suitable plan for us, back then I thought that was the responsible thing to do. As it turns out, if we had been irresponsible and not sought financial advice we would be a whole lot better off and not sitting here having to defend ourselves three years down the track, for trying to do the right thing.

Consequently I'm now happy to be irresponsible when it comes to investments and just enjoy life one day at a time. To me it's just not worth the hassle.

If anyone is reading this and considering seeking financial advice, be warned, this could be you in a couple of years time...

TB the banks involved dealt directly with Storm. Storm clients had nothing to do with any of the banks, we didn't see anyone or talk to anyone from the bank. Whatever happened, happened between them.

Most of what you've said would possibly apply had we dealt with them directly, though I'm not too sure there. Banks do have lending criteria...normally...but not in the case of storm and their clients apparently. No doubt the courts will sort this out.