Storm Financial Group

Harleyquin said:

Certainly agree with you Mash re EC and co, and the co includes their mates in the banking industry. I'm also in SICAG and don't know anyone who has a good word to say about the c's whatever way you spell it.

GG if there is anyone in SICAG still supporting c and co you can bet the percentage is extremely small. I know some Sicagers personally who won't post on this forum but have told me in no uncertain terms what they think of storms ex CEO and their comments are the same as Mash's.

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Thanks for clarifying that Harleyquin.

There has been a perception on ASF, which I have shared, that a majority of SICAG, or the Committee of SICAG supported Manny, and this may have lost the Storm litigants some support in their actions against the banks, by some posters, not necessarily me.

It is good that at last this has been made clear.

gg

Thanks Bunyip. Merry Christmas to you and all on the other side of the fence to us Stormies. Personally we're doing exactly as you've said we should, with family and lots of them.

To all the Stormies out there Merry Christmas and hope 2012 brings some closure to this ordeal.

To our legal team thank you, have a Merry Christmas and a successful outcome in court in 2012 .

I also wish all those on this thread a very Merry Christmas and a great New Year !

I suppose I will be around for a little longer to see the resolution of this saga. I really didn't think I'd be around this long and I thought I'd stay for a few posts and covertly lurk in the background but it has truly been a very interesting and enlightening journey. I reckon I'll be around just a bit longer before retiring this identity.

Those who follow me on twitter know I've been a frequent visitor along the length and breadth of George St over the last few years. I do get to see some very diverse displays of human behaviour, nothing really seems to surprise me any more.

Today as I was waiting in the courtyard for my trusty 1st Assistant Camera to pick me up for the long haul out of the city, I looked up and over my left shoulder I caught a glimpse of a trusty lady I frequently pass. It made me pause and think that she truly has a lot of work ahead of her next year. I then took the below snap of this quite majestic lady that I wish to share, I do hear she puts her sword to good use in cutting fact from fiction.

bunyip said:

To everyone on this thread, I want to say ‘MERRY CHRISTMAS’. And that includes those who I’ve locked horns with from time to time.

To those of you who are suffering financial hardship, have health issues, or are worried about the future, I hope you can put all that aside over the next week as you join with family or friends to celebrate the joy of the festive season.

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Well put bunyip. I echo these sentiments.

A new year brings with it new hope, so here's hoping for a prosperous 2012 for all.

Merry Christmas to all on the Aussiestockforums Storm Financial Group Thread.

It is to the credit of all ASF members that they have put so much time and effort in to assisting Storm investors such as my mate by diligent enquiry and advice.

And it is good to have so many ex Storm investors share their experiences and knowledge with each other and those of us fortunate enough not to have been involved.

We learn from each other and that is what a good thread on a good forum should be all about, in spite of the occasional tiff.

Let us head in to 2012 with good fortune and more advice, spirited or otherwise, to each other.

I would hope that once all the litigation is sorted that the many good Storm investors who post will stay as posters on ASF.

gg

Merry Christmas everyone - time might not heal all wounds, but it does sometimes bring perspective. Treasure your family and friends as they are worth more in the end than any monetary investment. To all of those who are still struggling I do hope your situations improve soon.

Merry Christmas, and here's hoping that 2012 is a better year for all of us.

Thank you to those who've offered advice and support.

MS

I've just read a couple of pages at the start of this thread and PENNYWISE is the first to support storm. Wonder if PW is still so supportive three years down the track?

As Frank said SICAG is a diverse group of individuals. Primarily it's a support group, and in the beginning it was our only support, and from my point of view an exceptionally good one.

The majority of us out here in Sicagland have no time for those in whom we placed our trust. EC had the audacity to send out an email telling us that there was nothing wrong with his advice?!? Personally that was the first time that we were told by Townsville Head Office that he had anything to do with our financial plan?! I was furious.

We were never introduced to him or told that he, a complete stranger, was giving us financial advice. We saw, spoke to and filled out paperwork with our own storm financial adviser, and personally I expected my financial information to stay with our advisor. We never gave him permission to share something so important with anyone else.

The banks initially said something like this "it's all storms fault, it was their advice, we had nothing to do with it". Yet it was the banks who allowed storm to mortgage the homes of thousands of retirees, who provided billions in margin loans, accepted inflated figures from storm, obviously checked none of these figures ( a requirement we're now told) and knew that there was no way these people on a pension could service these loans.

The whole storm scenario smacks of major corruption on the part of all those involved in storm and their partners in crime, the Australian banking industry. I have yet to hear an adequate explanation from any of the banks involved or the stormy ones.

Personally I still get so angry that we their clients have been held responsible for this mess, for so long, when they the instigators and financial backers of this scam, had the financial know how to make sure that it never happened in the first place. The banks and storms only defense to date for causing this human disaster is to blame their clients...disgusting is too 'soft' a word IMHO.

Garpal Gumnut said:

Thanks for clarifying that Harleyquin.

There has been a perception on ASF, which I have shared, that a majority of SICAG, or the Committee of SICAG supported Manny, and this may have lost the Storm litigants some support in their actions against the banks, by some posters, not necessarily me.

It is good that at last this has been made clear.

gg

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Hi GG,

I don't think I've missed one meeting, or court hearing, since all of this began.

I've met and spoken to numerous people in the last three years. I've never spoken to anyone who supported EC/JC, but I have spoken to those who are very disappointed that they - EC/JC - just disappeared into the woodwork and have never contacted them even though they had been clients from the very early days.

There are many popular misconceptions about Stormies, and just as many about SICAG.

I personally am a great supporter of SICAG, and the committee - and I make no apology for this.

I don't think anyone would have paid any attention to what happened to the Stormies if SICAG hadn't come into being.

(Even Frank will have to admit that the members of his forum are largely people he first had contact with via the SICAG forum.)

I'm hopeful that everyone will agree - surely - that without SICAG the majority of the Stormies would have been lost. Having SICAG, and the SICAG forum, has allowed many people to meet and share their experiences.

Personally, I just want to see justice done. I want this to go to court, and I'm sure that it will because I don't think the banks will settle without a fight.

I want the documents I have, and the documents others have shown me, to become public knowledge.

I don't care who completed those documents, I want the public and the bank(s) shareholders to see just how easy it was for the banks to lend money to those they shouldn't have.

Obviously, like everyone else involved I want to win in court. But, even if we lose we'll hopefully have shown some of the population, and some of the bank(s) shareholders and clients, the contempt that the banks had for them too - in lending what was in effect their clients and shareholders money, not the banks'.

The question on a lot of Stormies lips is "Who bought all the Stormies units in Challenger and Colonial First State when we were all sold down?"

I'm hoping that will come into play at some point.

This will be the third Christmas since we were all sold down the river. There have been many casualties, very many sad stories.

The Piggy Bank documentary is heartbreaking in some parts.

The documentary is just the tip of the iceberg, and doesn't fully cover the physical, emotional or psychological damage that has been done to many people, a great number of them elderly.

People who had worked all their lives, who've never expected anything other than that they'd continue to be financially independent in retirement as they were their whole lives until late 2008.

Much has been mentioned about the 'Storm Holidays'. I've met less than ten people, so less than five couples, who went on these holidays. Not everyone took their 'benefits' out of their investments. The majority that I've met opted to put it back in to ensure a comfortable retirement.

I guess the question I'd like most to ask of those on ASF who are following this thread is:

How would you feel if you had found out three years ago, or since, that your elderly parents had invested in Storm - without your knowledge - in an effort to make sure that they were not a burden to you - their children - in their retirement?

If I've offended anyone with this post, I apologise unreservedly. Works Christmas Party - it's a long time since I had one of those to go to!

I hope you all have a wonderful Christmas, and make the most of the time you have with your families.

If you get the chance - ask your parents - and elderly relatives - what financial arrangements they may have made for their retirement without asking your advice first.

There are a lot of smart people on this site, and I wish that I had found it before Storm found me.

MS

Harleyquin said:

I've just read a couple of pages at the start of this thread and PENNYWISE is the first to support storm. Wonder if PW is still so supportive three years down the track?

As Frank said SICAG is a diverse group of individuals. Primarily it's a support group, and in the beginning it was our only support, and from my point of view an exceptionally good one.

The majority of us out here in Sicagland have no time for those in whom we placed our trust. EC had the audacity to send out an email telling us that there was nothing wrong with his advice?!? Personally that was the first time that we were told by Townsville Head Office that he had anything to do with our financial plan?! I was furious.

We were never introduced to him or told that he, a complete stranger, was giving us financial advice. We saw, spoke to and filled out paperwork with our own storm financial adviser, and personally I expected my financial information to stay with our advisor. We never gave him permission to share something so important with anyone else.

The banks initially said something like this "it's all storms fault, it was their advice, we had nothing to do with it". Yet it was the banks who allowed storm to mortgage the homes of thousands of retirees, who provided billions in margin loans, accepted inflated figures from storm, obviously checked none of these figures ( a requirement we're now told) and knew that there was no way these people on a pension could service these loans.

The whole storm scenario smacks of major corruption on the part of all those involved in storm and their partners in crime, the Australian banking industry. I have yet to hear an adequate explanation from any of the banks involved or the stormy ones.

Personally I still get so angry that we their clients have been held responsible for this mess, for so long, when they the instigators and financial backers of this scam, had the financial know how to make sure that it never happened in the first place. The banks and storms only defense to date for causing this human disaster is to blame their clients...disgusting is too 'soft' a word IMHO.

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+1

MS

Mindstorm said:

I don't care who completed those documents,

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Don't you really? Surely it's a very fundamental point in terms of where the blame falls?

If you get the chance - ask your parents - and elderly relatives - what financial arrangements they may have made for their retirement without asking your advice first.

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Two provisos here:

1. In some families such a question could be seen to be intrusive and purely an enquiry as to whether you as the potential inheritor have been well provided for.

2. I'm not sure that too many family members are sufficiently well equipped to offer advice regarding financial matters.

I do understand, however, what has prompted your suggestion. Just think it's a tricky area.

I'm glad to know you were able to enjoy the work Christmas party, Mindstorm.
Getting on with life is probably difficult for some, but the only way to emotional resolution imo.

I wish you and other ex Storm clients the best for 2012, and thank you sincerely for sharing some of your experiences and feelings with us.

Julia said:

Don't you really? Surely it's a very fundamental point in terms of where the blame falls?


Two provisos here:

1. In some families such a question could be seen to be intrusive and purely an enquiry as to whether you as the potential inheritor have been well provided for.

2. I'm not sure that too many family members are sufficiently well equipped to offer advice regarding financial matters.

I do understand, however, what has prompted your suggestion. Just think it's a tricky area.

I'm glad to know you were able to enjoy the work Christmas party, Mindstorm.
Getting on with life is probably difficult for some, but the only way to emotional resolution imo.

I wish you and other ex Storm clients the best for 2012, and thank you sincerely for sharing some of your experiences and feelings with us.

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Julia,

apologies, I spent a long time typing up a response to you, and lost it in cyberspace.

I'll make every effort to respond over the next few days.

Meanwhile, I wish you and your family the best Christmas.

MS

Harleyquin said:

As Frank said SICAG is a diverse group of individuals. Primarily it's a support group, and in the beginning it was our only support, and from my point of view an exceptionally good one.

The majority of us out here in Sicagland have no time for those in whom we placed our trust.

...

Personally I still get so angry that we their clients have been held responsible for this mess, for so long, when they the instigators and financial backers of this scam, had the financial know how to make sure that it never happened in the first place. The banks and storms only defense to date for causing this human disaster is to blame their clients...disgusting is too 'soft' a word IMHO.

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+1

HQ's synopsis of where SICAGgers sit with EC/JC is a fair one. The group is a very large group of people. There are members who are part of the SICAG forum, members who get emails, others that only have contact through telephone and despite ALL of the different methods members and the committee use to keep in contact with and support one another the focus is on getting through everyday, supporting our new 'family' through the ups and downs and staying united to 'fight the good fight'.

There will be some who still believe EC/JC did nothing wrong and are victims. There will be some who think they are the devil incarnate. Most will sit somewhere between the two extremes - probably mostly towards the devil end.

My personal belief (that I have to hold onto or it will all swallow me up at times) is that those that did wrong will get theirs in the end! I want a front row seat to watch the carnage (and hopefully check writing) and then I want to have a huge party to get on with my life and get my family back into the groove of theirs again.

The golden lining from all of this disgusting mess is becoming such good friends with SICAGgers and some from this forum. I may never have met them otherwise. It's an honour to have worked alongside SICAGgers and to come to know them personally and as great friends.

:xmaswave Merry Christmas to all :xmastree and to all a good night! :wreath

cheers
Maccka

Julia said:

Don't you really? Surely it's a very fundamental point in terms of where the blame falls?


Two provisos here:

1. In some families such a question could be seen to be intrusive and purely an enquiry as to whether you as the potential inheritor have been well provided for.

2. I'm not sure that too many family members are sufficiently well equipped to offer advice regarding financial matters.

I do understand, however, what has prompted your suggestion. Just think it's a tricky area.

I'm glad to know you were able to enjoy the work Christmas party, Mindstorm.
Getting on with life is probably difficult for some, but the only way to emotional resolution imo.

I wish you and other ex Storm clients the best for 2012, and thank you sincerely for sharing some of your experiences and feelings with us.

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Yet again Julia,

I've typed up a long responsence to you which has been lost in hyperspace.

I'll try again tomorrow...

MS

"Storm staff face job loss, penalties

A FORMER financial adviser for North Queensland-based Storm Financial has been banned from the industry for two years.

A further two will have their work closely supervised by the corporate regulator, after an examination of their role in the failed finance company's operations.

The Australian Securities & Investments Commission yesterday said it had accepted enforceable undertakings from former Storm salespeople Carey Fraser of Townsville and Trevor Benson of Brisbane, as well as former manager David McCullough of Townsville."

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More by Andrew Fraser @ theaustralian.com.au

(Frank, I'm sure you will highlight the error in this report)

And remember this from Ellen Fanning's 60 Minutes report...

ELLEN FANNING: Emmanuel Cassimatis might admit his failures now but six months or so back, he wouldn't hear a word of it when one of his top sales people, Carey Fraser, tried to warn him that clients were in too deep.

CAREY FRASER: And I just learnt not to question things too much.

ELLEN FANNING: Sounds like you learnt the hard way?

CAREY FRASER: Yep.

ELLEN FANNING: You're really uncomfortable talking about Emmanuel Cassimatis, aren't you?

CAREY FRASER: Yeah, I'd rather not comment.

ELLEN fANNING: Do you feel guilty about it?

CAREY FRASER: Yeah, I feel guilty. I feel ashamed and I just, I just... Honestly, I just don't have the words any more. I want things to be so much different.

Source: http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/stories/757649/the-perfect-storm

Agree wholeheartedly with MS and Maccka's excellent posts.

The untold stories of this disaster, and there are many still to be told, aren't pleasant, so many special lives have been destroyed forever. I pray for you all.

I still 'fire up' on angry days but fortunately, and I certainly hope this is true for other Stormies, those days are becoming less frequent, due largely to the support of our SICAG family and ASF family. We also have a wonderful supportive family who are very very special people and I love them all so much.

As MS said this is an excellent forum with some very clever people and I also wish I'd found it prior to Storm finding us and blowing us away with their cyclonic rubbish.

Solly said:

More by Andrew Fraser @ theaustralian.com.au

(Frank, I'm sure you will highlight the error in this report)

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Hi Solly,

This is all a bit of a joke! These people sell you down the river and then have the opportunity to work back in the industry again once their time is up. We can't sue them because we don't have the money! The PI insurance is useless anyway so what's the point? Bedlam beckons!

The only thing missing here is Mickey Mouse because he's away on a 3 week course to become a financial adviser for Wind Financial; a financial advisory firm specialising in the financial welfare of the baby boomers. Their motto is "Gone with the wind"

I'm getting a bad feeling about Mr. C in all of this. He could end up as the PM.

The question on a lot of Stormies lips is "Who bought all the Stormies units in Challenger and Colonial First State when we were all sold down?"

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This is an easy one to answer. When CFS and Challenger were told to sell everyone down by EC and crew to "go to cash temporarily" they would have sold to the market.

To explain further - an index fund is simply a fund that invests into the underlying stocks that make up the index in the same weightings. So if you are investing into a mining index fund and BHP makes up 10% of that index, the fund will buy and hold 10% of BHP.

When the instructions came through to sell, the index funds simply sell their individual holdings into the market.

So who bought them? Everybody and anybody that was buying when those who were panicking were selling. Remember for every seller there is a buyer on the other end.

Much has been mentioned about the 'Storm Holidays'. I've met less than ten people, so less than five couples, who went on these holidays. Not everyone took their 'benefits' out of their investments. The majority that I've met opted to put it back in to ensure a comfortable retirement.

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400 people average on the Med trip (roughly 10% of the client base) and 2 times that to South Africa (20%) so there were a few that joined in. I don't think many begrudge this as it was fully funded from their cashflow, but on the other side of the coin there is still the issue of Stormies in retirement (sorry Frank got to use you again) that probably would have been living on 60-70K pa that were given living allowances by storm of $90-100K. Those who had been with storm for longer than Frank had done quite well living on 20-30% more than another more conservative investor with the same "personal" not borrowed asset base.

I too hope everyone has a safe and happy break.

Signing off from the darkside

GG

I hear Big Max's daughter is moving into some well known digs on Melton.
Will you be able to swing by in the Arnage to confirm?

S