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Storm Financial Group

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Hi Stormedup,
Firstly I would like to say sorry to hear about your personal situation, I imagine that your probably not only out of pocket for wages, but also part of the investor collapse.. However, I feel no pitty in the fact that storm have folded, after the way they conducted their business they had it coming, the only sad thing is people like myself now have to look at alternate means to recoup losses.

been an ex employee, could you perhaps shed some light on a few issues.

1) Why were storm, and the advisors so reluctant to sell under investors instruction? I myself, and have heard from many people that when the instcruction was given to sell that it was refused. Why? If I had suffered a 10-20% loss and felt it time to get out why were we held in against our wishes? I was held in up to around 102%.


2) How and where did the last 2 dividends that were drwan by emanuel come from? maybe this is the obvious, but are you telling me, he took dividends/commisions on margin loans and empty portfolios from failed investors? I mean where did the 24mill in the last 6months come from..

In anycase, if the truth is the cassimatis's have stashed close to 30mill away in the last 6months, I hope they end up rotting in hell, or a jail cell for what they have done to both, loyal and new investors. and there staff.

Maybe there going to come and sli wads of cash into all the people who have lost hugs somes letter boxes!
 
There is some highly emotive language starting to slip into the media. Here is just one that is not helping anybody.
STORM VICTIMS. With the exception of the staff who have not been paid, there are no Storm victims. The investors who have come out of this badly were not victims of Storm but victims of their own ignorance and willingness to walk into this without checking both sides of the road first.
It’s horrible what has happened here but these people are not “Storm Victims.”
Cassimatis was a great salesman and clearly some people were more susceptible to his sales tactics than others, which is the only possible explanation I can find to explain why some people did get out when they wanted to but others didn’t. But that doesn’t make them victims of storm rather victims of their indecisiveness and willingness to be talked out of a particular course of action.
The word victim is inappropriate. By applying it in this situation the responsibility for these people’s current situation is removed from their shoulders and allows them to blame someone else. And that’s not going to help them even get past first base as they try to restructure their lives.

The press use emotive words because it makes for good reading. Pulls the readers heartstrings and ensures they will buy tomorrows paper to find out just how Little Red Riding Hood will fare against the Big Bad Wolf.

Please everyone caught up in this understand you were not a victim of Storm. Storm was not the big bad wolf that snuck into your grannies house and hopped into her bed. You are not Little Red Riding Hood. She at least was suspicious.
Storm was a slick operation and for whatever reasons, you fell for it. The people who have been damaged by this were damaged because they crossed their fingers and hoped. And now the class action...more hope?

Here’s something else to consider. Slater & Gordon are bottom feeders....ambulance chasers. Just because they have taken on this case does not mean that they expect to win. They work on people’s hope. Their business model works on the principle that if they win just a percentage of their cases then they will come out on top financially. They are not working for nothing because they care.
IF this case is successful (and I've already expressed my reservations) then they will take their fees out of whatever they can get for you. I don’t know how much that is but I saw a divorce property settlement recently where the lawyers ended up with more than 50% of the total assets the couple were fighting over.
If it goes into appeal and I’m almost certain the banks will appeal any adverse findings, the lawyers’ fees will in all likelihood go higher. Banks can take this on and on and on...all the way up to the Supreme Court and the lawyers will probably pile fees upon fees upon fees. There may not be anything left for you anyway.

Here’s my hippy saying for the day.

An elder Cherokee Native was teaching his grandchildren about life.
He said to them, “A fight is going on inside me … it is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One wolf represents fear, anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.
The other stands for joy, peace, love, truth, friendship, empathy, generosity, faith, and compassion. The same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person, too.”
They thought about it for a minute,
then one child asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”
The old Cheree replied . . .”The one you feed.”
 

I hope you don't mind Soly but I edited this a bit.
 

Do you think you can win against these guys?

Don't fight battle that you can not win.

It's a drain on your health, family and could be a costly battle that ended no where.

Treat this financial hiccups as an overwhelmed army of financial world hitting you, and if it was Sun Tzu from the Art of War he would not fight it

When overwhelmed, you don't fight; you surrender, compromise, or flee. Surrender is complete defeat, compromise is half defeat, flight is not defeat.

As long as you are not defeated, you have another chance to win.

In another word don't surrender, keep on investing..dont fight that army of darkness, flight and rebuild your financial affairs and some days you will win again.
 
Just when you thought it couldn't get any weirder...

"..Storm Financial allegedly pumped oxygen in to rooms holding 300 or more clients to ramp up levels of enthusiasm during seminars...

....also purportedly used listening devices to monitor conversations in private rooms used for one-on-one consultations with prospective investors....

....A director of Momentum Planning, had been approached by Storm to form a joint-venture partnership to give the then-fast growing Townsville-based company a foothold in WA.
Mr Paul said the two firms never merged because he found Storm's business practices and client ethics very troubling, likening it to a cult...."


Complete story by Anthony Marx is here;
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24940447-664,00.html
 

No probs daisy, It's a privilege to be quoted.
 
Storm may have been insolvent before dividend payment

"STORM FINANCIAL may have already been insolvent when its founders, Emmanuel and Julie Cassimatis, paid themselves a "dividend" of $2 million in December, according to the failed wealth adviser's administrators.

In a statement yesterday, administrators Raj Khatri and Ivor Worrell said Storm Financial's liabilities exceeded its assets by $4.3 million at December 31.

At yesterday's creditors' meeting the administrators said Storm had liabilities of almost $80 million but would not comment on how much might be recovered from the sale its assets"

Vanessa O'Shaughnessy and Georgia Waters story is here;

http://business.smh.com.au/business/storm-may-have-been-insolvent-before-dividend-payment-20090120-7lmt.html
 
Storm Financial investors warn banks of upcoming stoush

"The Storm Investors Consumer Action Group will fight to recover lost assets.

Former clients of the failed investment advisory firm Storm Financial are vowing to take on the banking industry over the company's collapse.

Hundreds of investors met at Redcliffe in south-east Queensland last night and formed their own action group.

About 300 of the firm's former clients packed into a restaurant to hear what action they could take.

Many face the prospect of losing their homes and they voiced their anger at the banks.

The action group say banks recklessly loaned money to Storm customers and then gave them little time to rearrange their affairs when the company collapsed.

Lawyers told the crowd most of them had received terrible advice from Storm Financial and banks that loaned them money have a case to answer.

Banking expert John McLennan says the newly created Storm Investors Consumer Action Group will fight to recover lost assets."


Story by Jonathon Hall is here

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/21/2470605.htm
 
Storm clients will be proven in the courts to be victims of a well planned, very smooth and aggressive scam.
Like most past scams:
There will be a cadre of activists in the group to take the lead and fight for their rights.
Creditors will wait in line for a small percentage of their money.
Employees will also wait in line for a percentage of their entitlements.
For the victims the initial legal proceedings will be shaky as options are laid out but will consolidate in the long run.
People will depress, marriages will fail and children will be seriously affected.
The crooks will keep their act up until they hear the cell doors lock behind them; then they will find God.
Bottom feeders will circle and probe.
Lawyers will make a killing.
The finger pointing will continue ad nausium.
It is a matter of history and human nature.
So Storm victims first get your act together and then go for the jugular.
:sheep:
 

It does amaze me that they would even try this sort of blatant stuff. The unfortunate thing is a lot of directors seem to get away with these sorts of things - but some don't and even end up in jail. (e.g. Adler, Rivkin, Bond).

Given the number of people affected the Cassamatis would be pretty stupid imo to have deliberately taken money out of the firm at a time when they were aware that it was insolvent - and December is pretty late in the day - but it sounds like they did quite a few things that were pretty stupid - they were probably hoping they would still be able to juggle their way out of it back at that point in time - in which case the close scrutiny of the books would not have come into play as it does when the administrators are called in.

(note - all speculation on my behalf, not wanting it imply anythiing occurred that didn't)
 
Well I'll never forget the comment by our advisor and I quote " We wouldn't let you loose all your money , if that happened i would go to jail,and i don't want to go to jail" here's hoping this is the first thing they told us that turns out to be the truth.
 

Sqwark, may I ask at what point these people became "victims" During the bull run perhaps...
 
I can't believe the gall of the advisers, particularly the principals who "GAMBLED" on their businesses in the big roll up to the mothership prior to the float - and now, the principles are crying foul and demanding payment for their businesses... I can tell you for a fact they did so on the proviso that the payout would happen when Storm floated and they all had stars in their eyes - They were quoting multiples in the 15-17's for their shareholdings, and had openly discussed that if the float didn't happen straight away, they'd bide their time until it did.

The greedy SOB's who sold out to the mothership punted on it and lost. They were spending the cash they didn't have and the greedier ones did everything they could to secure greater shareholdings in regard to the big payday. This whole capitulation comes down to pure, unadulterated greed and the principals deserve everything they get. In the last 18 months reports of client service levels deteriorating and nasty sales tactics have been rife with many clients being made to feel stupid, belittled and undermined to sign business - what the clients didn't know is that in the rollup of businesses, their advisers who were principals (read - head sales person) took a pay cut to go on salary as a Storm employee with a retainer + commission - and as one adviser openly told clients, "I haven't written any business in the last few months so I haven't got paid" - everyone knows the hungry wolf takes the risks.

Interestingly enough, there is rumour that the principals are now crying poor - and were so quick to back up Storm when they were raking it in, but now their true colours have shown and they can't run fast enough. Some advisers are trying desperately to re-start businesses and distance themselves verhmently from Storm. This kind of gutless attitude is testament to their greedy natures. I urge the action groups of Clients to stand strong against this, and demand full compensation ahead of those greedy principals who KNEW the risks associated with rolling their businesses into storm ahead of the float.

Don't let them get paid out before you, and for all you stalwarts and employees who still have an undying adoration for the apostles and the messiah who "became like family to you"... the writing was on the wall, and you could have moved to cash in Feb of last year which for 90% would have meant being able to get back in. These Guru's let YOU down. As clients, you wouldn't be in Negative Equity territory and as employees you wouldn't be looking for work right now.

It's time to get the priorities straight.
 

Yes some of them will go to jail, they will get up to three years and then out, what is bad, he will have salted away 3/5 Mil some place.
When its too good to be true, the one that gets screwed is YOU.
 
daisy said:
Sqwark, may I ask at what point these people became "victims" During the bull run perhaps...
Click to expand...
Daisy you may; but with respect for the full answer you would have to talk to individual past clients of Storm.

A victim is usually defined as:
  • an unfortunate person who suffers from some adverse circumstance
  • a person who is tricked or swindled
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

In the case of the unfortunate and unsophisticated Storm investors it is my opinion, based on past precedent and the revelations of the creditors meeting, that the cause of the adverse circumstances that the Storm victims are suffering, was that they were tricked or swindled. Further, I believe the judgement of their personal culpability should be left to the courts.

If you don't accept that then that's your right. Fortunately in Australia you are innocent until proven guilty. However, until a judge doesn't accept it, cause remains conjecture.

Once discovery, briefs, legal argument and evidence are presented in court the judge will have heard the full stories from both sides, weighed the legal points presented and rule.

Meanwhile as I have stressed on my posts these people should stabilise their lives first then pursue their legal remedies when and if they can. Some I agree may not be able, but there will be some that can. Hence my belief in a class action.

Take a f'rinstance: one partner does all the financials for the family, the other manages the houshold. Is the house manager to blame for the bad investments of the finance manager. Depends of the nature of the individual. Some will suffer the consequences of placing their trust in their sole mate others will seek to make a new life whilst others will split. My point is that there are victims who may not have had the wherewithall to understand the situation and there are poor finance managers who may not have been shown how to consider their exit strategies. Certainly Mr and Mrs Storm didn't.
:sheep:
 

And not one had an exit strategy to offer their clients. Excellent post.
SE.
:sheep:
 

I'd agree that they are victims of a very risky (due to the leverage involved) and poorly managed investment scheme, and victims of a severe fall in the stock market. But if they deny that they had any personal responsibility for the situation they are in they are kidding themselves.

For example - anyone that takes out a loan has a responsibility to ensure that they can repay the interest and principal on that loan.

It sounds to me like a lot of people willingly took out loans that they did not have the capacity to repay or feel comfortable about repaying if the need arose. This sort of wreckless behaviour has consequences. Storm didn't force people to take out loans, and every loan document you get from a bank clearly states the amount of the loan and the amount of repayments that are required. So I can't believe that anybody was unaware they were borrowing large amounts of money and what the repayments were.

Storm did a terrible job of managing how the proceeds of those loans were invested, and were highly irresponsible in advising and encouraging people to take out large loans that they were unlikely to have the capacity to repay.

But they didn't sign the loan documents for the clients.
 
In case you missed Solly's post the Storm Investors Action Group has been formed and will meet soon in Townsville. I am trying to get some more detail.
Investigative journalist and Emmy award winner Jonathon Hall is ABC lead journo. I quote his article:
"New South Wales Nationals Senator John Williams also addressed the function, promising to push for a Senate inquiry into the role banks played in the demise of Storm Financial."

Any more info anyone: contacts, timings, future venues?
:sheep:
 

I take your point. However my guess is not one of these people were calling themselves victims while they were raking it in and dancing in the streets of Italy. Nobody was complaining about tricky sales tactics then.

I think I've made it clear that my sympathy does lie with those unsophisticated investors who were not able to understand the implications of what they were doing. But I think to abrogate personal responsibility is not going to help them.

On a more practical note, by the time that the banks have got their hands on whatever of storm's money they can legally access...and I'm sure they will get first go at it, I'd be surprised if there will be anything in storm's coffers to give back to clients who have been caught up in this.

The banks can't be held responsible for storm's slick sales tactics. So unless this line of action is directed against storm's insurance or indemnity or wahtever you call it, what good is it?

And if that is where this line of action is going to go then storms Clients are going to be taking on more than likely a large probably multi-national insurace company.

Good Luck. In my humble opinion insurance companies are even trickier than banks when it comes to covering their backsides and avoiding payouts.
 
Hi

I was alerted to this forum by some distressed storm clients who have been reading the commentary. I have registered here under my real name and I am a national economist of 20 years standing. Since the October crash i have seen hundreds of victims (and that is what they are) and provided guidance and directions to them. I have also been working with the 2 main law firms assisting clients - Slater and Gordon and Connolly Suthers. I urged both of these firms to meet with some of the initial clients I was helping, and to become involved and represent them. They agreed after reviewing the documents we had collected and after meeting the clients and hearing their stories. I know there has been a wide range of comments on this forum about lawyers (and how useful they will be) but the reality is that in most of the cases i have seen these storm clients do have grounds for legal recourse against several banks. When u provide credit for both home loans and margin loans there are very strict rules and procedures that must be adhered to by the banks.

So if u r a Storm client I would suggest u consider the following course of action:

1. Contact your home and margin loan providers and request copies of the actual loan application forms and associated consumer credit contract schedules - they must give them to u so be firm. It may take a few days for u to receive these documents.
2. Review the asset, liabilities and personal income details contained in the loan applications - look for irregularities such as: is your declared income correct or has it been overstated?
3. Make notes on what dealings you actually had with official bank staff during the loan process - did u provide copies of pay slips, etc? some of u may have never met with bank staff - again make notes of these details.
4. Compile all your storm documents and records into a coherent set in chronological order.
5. Contact either Slater and Gordon (07) 3220 2555 or Connolly Suthers (07) 4771 5664 and register with them, then make a time to go and meet with their lawyers and review the information collected in steps 1 to 4.

If u are a Macquarie Margin Lending client then u should have been contacted by them informing u that the purchaser of the business (Bendigo Bank) has excluded Storm clients from the purchase - this means u must refinance or your portfolio will be liquidated. There are set dates for when this will occur. Please see a financial planner experienced in margin lending to assess your options and don’t leave it to the last minute.

It is up to each individual to determine what they wish to do (either fight or walk away) and I wish them the best in what is clearly a difficult time regardless of which direction they choose.

Best regards

Carey Ramm
Principal Economist
AEC Group Ltd
 
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