Storm Financial Group

cuttlefish · 24 October 2009

Harleyquinn said:
I would totally disagree that the Rockhampton couple mentioned in previous posts were greedy. They were obviously very good business people and employed an accountant to look after their business affairs. As I understand it from reading the media, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it was their accountant who told them to invest in storm financial. That's what business people do they are so busy running their business that they employ expert finance people to take care of the financial side of the business. Once they retired they continued with this financial strategy. I fail to see how they can be called greedy simply because they invested with a financial planner. This is a free country and whether you have one hundred dollars or one hundred trillion to invest it doesn't matter, what matters is if you go to an accountant or a financial planner they should be accountable for their actions.

... etc ...

I agree Harleyquin. I don't really see that they are more at fault because they had a lot of money invested. I do think they were naive to put all of their eggs in one basket and to blindly accept the advice given without considering the risks involved but that applies to all Stormers not just the rich ones. It also sounds like Storm was extremely good at fobbing off peoples concerns and making them feel stupid or ignorant for even questioning things. It would be devestating to go from a position of reasonable wealth to pennyless. If other Storm clients are victims then these people are victims too imo.

Monario · 24 October 2009

In reference to some of the past posts:

I persoanlly dont think any storm investors were greedy, and honestly believe they were trully just trying to better themselves financially, I dont think there is one person here on ASF that is not trying to do that, does anyone object to that statement?

OK so this rockhampton couple had 8mill, some here are labelling them greedy for trying to gain more..Are you all telling me if you had 8Mill in the bank you would sit back stretch your legs, fold your arms behind your head, and say.. Hmmm thats enough.. Yawn, I think I will stop now... What a load of BS

I am sure 99% Of ASF users are on the hunt for more, sure 95% of those are probably doing it entirely on there own,and I commend them for it. But for those that are not that savvy, or just have enough to pay someone to do it for them should not be labelled greedy..

Everyone on this planet that pays for a service has a right to recieve professional genuine and to the letter of the law advice.. Weather these people were greedy or not, they paid for a service that was backed by all the governing bodies and in return copped a pineapple up the coiter!!

This my friends is not right, and I will say again, if these people get away with it, if no repatriation or compensation is paid, well, I will be opening my own finacial advising firm and doing a Manny, cause if they do get away with then all this society we have built is saying to those responsible is, good on you for earning a crap load of money by having no morals.

GumbyLearner · 24 October 2009

Monario said:
In reference to some of the past posts:

I persoanlly dont think any storm investors were greedy, and honestly believe they were trully just trying to better themselves financially, I dont think there is one person here on ASF that is not trying to do that, does anyone object to that statement?

OK so this rockhampton couple had 8mill, some here are labelling them greedy for trying to gain more..Are you all telling me if you had 8Mill in the bank you would sit back stretch your legs, fold your arms behind your head, and say.. Hmmm thats enough.. Yawn, I think I will stop now... What a load of BS

I am sure 99% Of ASF users are on the hunt for more, sure 95% of those are probably doing it entirely on there own,and I commend them for it. But for those that are not that savvy, or just have enough to pay someone to do it for them should not be labelled greedy..

Everyone on this planet that pays for a service has a right to recieve professional genuine and to the letter of the law advice.. Weather these people were greedy or not, they paid for a service that was backed by all the governing bodies and in return copped a pineapple up the coiter!!

This my friends is not right, and I will say again, if these people get away with it, if no repatriation or compensation is paid, well, I will be opening my own finacial advising firm and doing a Manny, cause if they do get away with then all this society we have built is saying to those responsible is, good on you for earning a crap load of money by having no morals.

Well said.

I would take extreme offence if the PM and Treasurer didn't get involved here. You know both Queenslanders didn't take any steps to investigate this. The Australian financial legislative framework is strong in comparison to other parts of the world. In this country the lenders conduct is restricted by the Corporations Act.

Soft Dough · 24 October 2009

Monario said:
OK so this rockhampton couple had 8mill, some here are labelling them greedy for trying to gain more..Are you all telling me if you had 8Mill in the bank you would sit back stretch your legs, fold your arms behind your head, and say.. Hmmm thats enough.. Yawn, I think I will stop now... What a load of BS .

Ok,

Did they have $8million or was their gross portfolio $8 million.

I think that it is the latter.

Monario said:
This my friends is not right, and I will say again, if these people get away with it, if no repatriation or compensation is paid, well, I will be opening my own finacial advising firm and doing a Manny, cause if they do get away with then all this society we have built is saying to those responsible is, good on you for earning a crap load of money by having no morals.

You could always become a real estate agent, most of them are dodgy too.

Monario · 24 October 2009

GumbyLearner said:
Well said.

I would take extreme offence if the PM and Treasurer didn't get involved here. You know both Queenslanders didn't take any steps to investigate this. The Australian financial legislative framework is strong in comparison to other parts of the world. In this country the lenders conduct is restricted by the Corporations Act.

Unfortunately GL I think it is seriously wishful thinking for the pair of them to look at it to much. Even though I do feel this sort of activity is just what the top dogs need to be watching for, and jumping on straight away.. the capitalist system may well be the best system of gonvernment we have yet developed, but it is not a system based on principles where lies and deceit can be used to manipulate the wealthy, or in this case even the poor out of there hard earned.

And just a note on greed, when a national or multinational company makes money at the ill fortune of it customers and has no remorse in doing so THAT my friends is not only geedy but morally wrong and makes my body shudder.

When an individual is labeled greedy for trying to make there financial future stable through honest means, I think there is some rethinking on behalf of those labelling them needs to be done...

Wanna talk about greedy? what about all the CEO's still taking rediculous salaries and bonuses while the clients portfolios dwindle...

Greed (also called avarice) in psychology is an inordinate desire to acquire or possess more than one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth.

If you work on the above definition of greed, were all greedy. :

GumbyLearner · 24 October 2009

If Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan don't do anything about this, it's akin to what the Cain/Kirner government did in Victoria due to Pyramid. In Victoria, Jeff Kennett came to power and he decided to cut public services. If these Qld leaders of Australia ignore this fraudulent activity, I'm sure the Nats under
Springborg will have no alternative other than to privatise Qld state interests. I know most Storm investors here probably couldn't give a rats about that, but just remember Governments are Governments!

Monario · 24 October 2009

GumbyLearner said:
If these Qld leaders of Australia ignore this fraudulent activity, I'm sure the Nats under
Springborg will have no alternative other than to privatise Qld state interests. !

Correct me if I am wrong, but are we not doing this already? Brisbane port sold, and all the others recently pensioned off that dont come to mind this minute.

GumbyLearner · 24 October 2009

Monario said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but are we not doing this already? Brisbane port sold, and all the others recently pensioned off that dont come to mind this minute.

No not at all. But why should the public have to pick up the tab?
And why forseeably more in the future if this kind of **** is not sorted out now!

All I can say is **** corruption.

Monario · 24 October 2009

GumbyLearner said:
No not at all. But why should the public have to pick up the tab?
And why forseeably more in the future if this kind of **** is not sorted out now!

All I can say is **** corruption.

Hell yes...

On the privatisation thing, I have never understood why any government would think it is good practice to sell of public assets, asstes that generate an income for both the people working for them, and the government! WTF?

Pretty soon the only way the Australian Government will have to earn an income will be soley tax on the people.. Great policy!!!

Harleyquin · 24 October 2009

If we don't get any compensation for this fradulent activity we are going to cost the Australian public squillions, so inevitably we are all going to pay one way or the other. How much is it going to cost them to put Manny and Julie away or will they go to Marjorca...

Solly · 24 October 2009

I am of the opinion that it is not relevant how much money people lost, whether they lost $10M or $50k it doesn't matter, the fact is they all lost following this strategy. I believe if the Locks had millions to invest they should have reasonably expected to receive the projected returns in the same manner as a person investing a much lesser amount. We are not privy and neither should we be of what the Locks intended to do with the projected distributions from their Storm structure. I know it's none of my business or concern. If they made millions in business good on them, they most likely paid heaps of taxes, provided employment and provided other benefits in this capitalist system.

I believe we are all greedy to some extent it's probably innate and a product of evolution to ensure survival of us and the continuation of our genes.

It must have been very hard for Mrs Lock to face the questioning at the examination and to relive what has happen over the last 12 months. I believe it hit a raw nerve when she also recalled what has happened to her son, that must also added a new level of pain. Nobody likes to see that.

Monario · 24 October 2009

Harleyquin said:
If we don't get any compensation for this fradulent activity we are going to cost the Australian public squillions, so inevitably we are all going to pay one way or the other. How much is it going to cost them to put Manny and Julie away or will they go to Marjorca...

Exactly, the amount of taxpayer money already spent on this fiasco would be staggering to most... Lets hope those responsible are brought to justcie and made to pay!!

Monario · 24 October 2009

Solly said:
I believe it hit a raw nerve when she also recalled what has happened to her son, that must also added a new level of pain. Nobody likes to see that.

Can you please ellaborate, or post a link, I have read a few articles, no mention of her son.

Harleyquin · 24 October 2009

Our son had the same experience with storm as the Locke's have had with theirs and on top of us losing almost everything so has he. It's not easy. This hasn't just affected individuals it's affected whole families. Mum and Dad, all the kids, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and friends. Whole families have been totally wiped out. There is much suffering and the stories you haven't heard yet are disgusting.

Not everyone has put in a parliamentary submission unfortunately. There are many elderly who have never used a computer, have no idea where to go for support and have been stripped of everything. Twelve months down the track they are still floundering. Maybe someone will tell the whole story one day, at present you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. There are many elderly who won't say anything because they don't want their families to know or they feel totally lost or both. This has been reported to be the largest corporate crash in Australian history. If this is the case I feel no pride in being part of this historical event and I never want to see anyone else suffer as we have suffered this year. That is why it is so important for this type of activity to stop right here and now, it's criminal and it needs to be treated as such.

Solly · 24 October 2009

Monario said:
Can you please ellaborate, or post a link, I have read a few articles, no mention of her son.

Monario, the reference will be in the transcript.

Monario · 24 October 2009

Solly said:
Monario, the reference will be in the transcript.

I am a bit slow tonight Solly, Traqnscript? Court Transcript? where can I find it?

maccka · 24 October 2009

Harleyquin said:
Our son had the same experience with storm as the Locke's have had with theirs and on top of us losing almost everything so has he. It's not easy. This hasn't just affected individuals it's affected whole families. Mum and Dad, all the kids, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and friends. Whole families have been totally wiped out. There is much suffering and the stories you haven't heard yet are disgusting.

Not everyone has put in a parliamentary submission unfortunately. There are many elderly who have never used a computer, have no idea where to go for support and have been stripped of everything. Twelve months down the track they are still floundering. Maybe someone will tell the whole story one day, at present you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. There are many elderly who won't say anything because they don't want their families to know or they feel totally lost or both. This has been reported to be the largest corporate crash in Australian history. If this is the case I feel no pride in being part of this historical event and I never want to see anyone else suffer as we have suffered this year. That is why it is so important for this type of activity to stop right here and now, it's criminal and it needs to be treated as such.

Well said Harleyquin. I was present in the parliamentary inquiry in Cairns when the parliamentary committee started to realise the "network nature" of this event for families and communities. I know that most of them had not considered it before that day. I also know (because I spoke to a number of them in Brisbane a couple of days later) that it had brought a new level of understanding to their own minds of the costs of this event.

I really believe that the concept that whole families have been affected is a key factor that has been missed by the general public. When several generations have been affected there is no reserve (financial or emotional) left within the family to allow them to cope with it. I could give the examples of at least 4 families I know that have three generations (or more) involved. I can also think of a couple of rural/regional towns that have large percentages of their populations affected.

Stuart Washington (A journalist who has written for the Age and others) has grasped this concept and he has written articles about it.

As you have said in other posts, the effect on the Australian public is not just financial. People who previously donated money to charities can no longer afford to. People who previously volunteered to work for community organisations can no longer afford to as they have to go back to work. Of course there will also be the additional effects in the future as people who have been extremely stressed over a very prolonged period succumb to illnesses caused by that stress.

The cost of this is huge. I suspect it will be impossible to truly calculate the cost.

cheers
Maccka

Solly · 24 October 2009

Monario said:
I am a bit slow tonight Solly, Traqnscript? Court Transcript? where can I find it?

Monario, it's not published yet.

maccka · 24 October 2009

cuttlefish said:
I agree Harleyquin. I don't really see that they are more at fault because they had a lot of money invested. I do think they were naive to put all of their eggs in one basket and to blindly accept the advice given without considering the risks involved but that applies to all Stormers not just the rich ones. It also sounds like Storm was extremely good at fobbing off peoples concerns and making them feel stupid or ignorant for even questioning things. It would be devestating to go from a position of reasonable wealth to pennyless. If other Storm clients are victims then these people are victims too imo.

Cuttlefish, I could be wrong here but I think that many Storm clients believed that they weren't putting all of their eggs into one basket.

The message I got from any of the seminars I went to talked about the fact that by buying into the Storm funds we would be buying into a diversified portfolio that was made up of the whole range of companies that existed in the ASX 200 (or it may have been the 300 - I didn't get into it so I am not sure). This meant that people were exposed to a range of industrials, mining, financial, property companies etc. So if mining stocks went down, the fund dealt with it by adjusting the fund composition.

A number of the Storm clients were invested in several managed funds and this would give even more of a feeling of not having eggs all in one basket.

cheers
Maccka

Soft Dough · 24 October 2009

maccka said:
Cuttlefish, I could be wrong here but I think that many Storm clients believed that they weren't putting all of their eggs into one basket.

The message I got from any of the seminars I went to talked about the fact that by buying into the Storm funds we would be buying into a diversified portfolio that was made up of the whole range of companies that existed in the ASX 200 (or it may have been the 300 - I didn't get into it so I am not sure). This meant that people were exposed to a range of industrials, mining, financial, property companies etc. So if mining stocks went down, the fund dealt with it by adjusting the fund composition.

A number of the Storm clients were invested in several managed funds and this would give even more of a feeling of not having eggs all in one basket.

cheers
Maccka

True,

I also think most reasonably competent investors would not have forseen CBA pulling the plug on Storm branded index investments.

Perhaps people would have been better off with Vanguard, where the people who were not in margin calls would have not been forced to sell down, or were given the oppotunity to top up. Another area where EC may have sold out preferential investors at the expense of the herd.

I would love to know if the employees of Storm sold out or were able to sell out before the fund was closed.

Once again, indexed funds are great for amateurs ( although a portfolio of shares with percentage allocation to sectors would no doubt outperform ) it was ONLY the GEARING which caused the problems.

Storm Financial Group

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