Storm Financial Group

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/people/home-at-risk-over-18m-20091016-h14b.html

At least she didn't go through Manny and Julie's Storm Financial.

Getting wiped out in the GFC is more common than many folk on this thread think.

gg

Solly said:

"Failed Storm owners 'naive'"

The co-founders of failed advisory firm Storm Financial, Emmanuel and Julie Cassimatis, were considered a risk by the financial adviser's accountants because they were naive, entrepreneurial and did not listen to advice.


"Storm owners took $2m 'dividend' as company sank"

"Employees of the failed financial adviser have been giving damaging testimony in court."

Read more by Michelle Singer in The Australian Financial Review of October 17 2009.

Click to expand...

"Failed Storm owners 'naive'" - page 3 and "Storm owners took $2m 'dividend' as company sank" - pages 26 & 27

The following file contains these 2 (two) AFR articles (Weekend Edition 17-18 October, 2009).

View attachment AFR - 17-18 OCT 2009.pdf

bunyip said:

Really?
To be fair to Garpal, he's also acknowledged the good work that SICAG has done in bringing the CBA to the negotiating table.

Any discussion on GG's attitude towards SICAG should at least be balanced by mentioning that he's spoken for them as well as against them.

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The fact that he and others have spoken for and against them is not in dispute, and everyone is entitled to have an opinion and to state it. What is in question is the accuracy of some, not all, but some of the so called facts used to justify the criticism. Then when the facts or statements are questioned there appears to be an unwillingness to address these concerns. Instead the questioner is attacked rather than the question....All this does is reduce the credibility of the other contributions by the same authors…and this is a shame as they obviously have a valuable contribution to make..

Garpal Gumnut said:

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/people/home-at-risk-over-18m-20091016-h14b.html

At least she didn't go through Manny and Julie's Storm Financial.

Getting wiped out in the GFC is more common than many folk on this thread think.

gg

Click to expand...

Yes gg,

Look what happened at Harvard...

Harvard University last year lost nearly $2 billion in the cash account it uses to pay for daily operations, by investing the money with its endowment fund instead of keeping it in safer, bank-like accounts.

Click to expand...

http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2009/10/harvards_losses.html

bunyip said:

Really?
While I'm on the subject of derision and lashing out.......I suggest you stop deriding and lashing out at yourself for the mistakes you made. There's nothing to be gained by referring to yourself as a 'pleb' or 'a very stupid man'. Your best shot at getting over this is to accept that you made an error of judgement, just like most people make errors of judgement at different times in their lives.
Realise that although you mistakes took away your money, they didn't take away your potential.

Click to expand...

Good commentary bunyip. Anyone willing to blame themselves and accept responsibility for their mistakes should also be willing to forgive themselves. Nobody is free of faults - and the smallest slip of judgement can result in the biggest of consequences.

In spite of all of the criticism, SICAG continues to endorse the Storm fees model on their website and contains ZERO commentary attacking Storm, the company that put ALL of its members in the dire situation they are currently in. Critism of SICAG is entirely justified imo - the organisation is run by Storm sympathisers - if it is not then I challenge them to put JUST ONE derogatory comment about Storm on their web site, explaining Storms involvement in the shocking situation that their members have ended up in.

To those outside of the situation it is very obvious that something is rotten with SICAG. The website if full of pithy quotes and evangalistic like commentary - very similar to the cr*p peddled by Storm.

cuttlefish said:

In spite of all of the criticism, SICAG continues to endorse the Storm fees model on their website and contains ZERO commentary attacking Storm, the company that put ALL of its members in the dire situation they are currently in. Critism of SICAG is entirely justified imo - the organisation is run by Storm sympathisers - if it is not then I challenge them to put JUST ONE derogatory comment about Storm on their web site, explaining Storms involvement in the shocking situation that their members have ended up in.

To those outside of the situation it is very obvious that something is rotten with SICAG. The website if full of pithy quotes and evangalistic like commentary - very similar to the cr*p peddled by Storm.

Click to expand...

I gather those who are outside of the situation , and their opinions matter little as they are not members of SICAG. Those who support what it is doing, that is the members, have a voice and are reguarly in contact with whom ever they wish within the group. I guess those who are on the outside maybe need to worry less about the groups business unless of course they choose to join and have a voice, which of course they are free to do. I'm sure it is very obvious to those within SICAG, that is its members, that there IS something rotten around, and it is those who wish to worry more about what SICAG is doing then what STORM, CGI, CBA and others have done....

bunyip said:

Really?
I seem to recall that you made a rather forceful and aggressive effort to deride me in Post No. 3200 on Page 160, because I expressed my views about the foolishness of a small minority of Stormers who went to Storm despite having already accumulated substantial wealth that had set them up for life.

Not that I hold any grudge against you for that.....you were emotional and upset and probably would have lashed out at someone else if you hadn't lashed out at me.

While I'm on the subject of derision and lashing out.......I suggest you stop deriding and lashing out at yourself for the mistakes you made. There's nothing to be gained by referring to yourself as a 'pleb' or 'a very stupid man'. Your best shot at getting over this is to accept that you made an error of judgement, just like most people make errors of judgement at different times in their lives.
Realise that although you mistakes took away your money, they didn't take away your potential.
Milk that potential for all it's worth. Be thankful that you still have twenty or so years of work left in you before retirement. Play your cards right, and you can do very well in that 20 years. You may yet get that comfortable retirement you've dreamed of.

As for GG, I think you need to put his SICAG-related remarks in perspective.
Sure he's been critical of them for their endorsement of the Storm fees model, for the fact that they avoid laying any blame on Storm, and for the conflict of interest in having a committee with a number of ex Storm advisers, and a relative of an ex Storm adviser. Those are completely fair and reasonable criticisms in my opinion.
To be fair to Garpal, he's also acknowledged the good work that SICAG has done in bringing the CBA to the negotiating table.

Any discussion on GG's attitude towards SICAG should at least be balanced by mentioning that he's spoken for them as well as against them.

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Bunyip,

I apologise, to you, and anyone else who I may have upset on this forum.

I am in a very raw position. You are right, I am lashing out. Apologies again to anyone that I may have offended, including yourself.

I just don't see any way that I can take my family out of this mess that I have put us in. This is not anyone's fault but my own.

MS

Mindstorm lashing out is something that we all feel like doing and we have a right to feel that way. We feel guilty that we didnt see this fiasco for what it was, a very clever scam sold by very clever salesmen who were schooled by the master himself, and it was all 'supposedly' done legally with the backing of the powers that be.

Life isn't fair but it's still good. Stay strong and focused and good luck.

Mindstorm said:

Bunyip,

I apologise, to you, and anyone else who I may have upset on this forum.

I am in a very raw position. You are right, I am lashing out. Apologies again to anyone that I may have offended, including yourself.

I just don't see any way that I can take my family out of this mess that I have put us in. This is not anyone's fault but my own.

MS

Click to expand...

Mindstorm, Bunyip also pointed out that you have the potential to return to a more comfortable position. If you can try to work towards that, a little light may appear for you.

I can't begin to understand how horrible all this must be for you, but truly, guilt is probably the most useless of all emotions, and you will only be worrying your family by allowing it to take you over.

And to say it's entirely your fault is probably a bit harsh. The Cassimatises and their whole slick operation appear to have deluded many otherwise sensible people whose chief fault was to trust too much.

You don't know the outcome of all the enquiries and the S & G legal action, so things may turn out to be less dire than you presently think.

All the best
Julia

Mindstorm said:

I just don't see any way that I can take my family out of this mess that I have put us in. This is not anyone's fault but my own.

MS

Click to expand...

That is going too far the other way, it is not entirely your fault we all made a mistake there are thousands of us who trusted Storm. To trust isn’t a bad thing, I will just be a little more discerning next time.
To be honest I assumed people who were in a certain position like a financial advisor were trustworthy and would look after my interests.
We trusted the untrustworthy, was that a mistake? Yes.
Will we do it again? No
But there are lot more players in this scenario than just the financial advisor and you.
Did it occur to you when you started this path that you would be sold out at 97% with your margin lender or in some cases over 100%?

Stand up and take a good look around you and check out what is happening each day.
There is always a change, just about every day there is one more little snippet of news, one more bank has come on board, another startling revelation who will ever forget Dawn Collette’s’ They're an ethical couple and they're an honest couple.''
It’s not over yet; wait till the end before you take all the blame.
Who knows what is still to be revealed.
I am poor as a church mouse at the moment no money and a $462,000 mortgage
But each day I remember its not over YET. The time factor is a killer as I am with ANZ and Macquarie and the heat is only just starting to be applied to Macquarie.
Please, please come to your senses and see the truth as it really is.
When you are having a really bad day go for that extra walk with the dogs, each day get up and move, plan a chore that must be done that day don’t allow yourself time to think go to bed exhausted each night so you can’t dwell too long.
See the local GP get some tablets, I am not a tablet person as I have all sorts of allergies, on the other hand my youngest son has had a bad time of late trying to run a business, he saw the local GP and has had great success with a tablet.
The tablets have stopped the anxiety and he is functioning much better and thinking clearer.
There are ways around this, your mind at times can be your worse enemy, how about putting it to good rather than despair you obviously had saved enough before to make Storm interested in you, just get that brain thinking again.
None of our lives will be the same again but who is to say that it won’t be just a different sort of “good life”.
I read your posts and I love your particular sense of humour, please keep posting you have a lot to say.
We are all so different and isn’t that a plus?

Julia said:

.......I can't begin to understand how horrible all this must be for you......

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Agree with you on this, Julia. Many of us have lost money or had things go sour but hopefully we're not in the situation where we have lost or are likely to lose every darn thing we ever worked for. That said, I still cannot get my head around why, after pouring in money to pay off one's home, you would remortgage to place those funds, with even more borrowed money, in the sharemarket. It is just not within my psyche to do that. However, as has also been said previously, if those around you are doing the same thing and you're made to look like a dork if you don't go with the collective wisdom, it is a really powerful pressure to concede.

Julia said:

And to say it's entirely your fault is probably a bit harsh. The Cassimatises and their whole slick operation appear to have deluded many otherwise sensible people whose chief fault was to trust too much.

Click to expand...

From what I have read it was one heck of a slick operation, headed by a man of the people, the Messiah of wealth creation. It is amazing how personality and persuasiveness and ego can exert influence. And it worked for 17 years.

cuttlefish said:

In spite of all of the criticism, SICAG continues to endorse the Storm fees model on their website and contains ZERO commentary attacking Storm, the company that put ALL of its members in the dire situation they are currently in. Critism of SICAG is entirely justified imo - the organisation is run by Storm sympathisers - if it is not then I challenge them to put JUST ONE derogatory comment about Storm on their web site, explaining Storms involvement in the shocking situation that their members have ended up in.

To those outside of the situation it is very obvious that something is rotten with SICAG. The website if full of pithy quotes and evangalistic like commentary - very similar to the cr*p peddled by Storm.

Click to expand...

To all the Storm victims, that is the nuts of why many asf members distrust SICAG.

For better or worse, SICAG's public face is on the internet, for all to see and comment.

If they can't tolerate comment about their SICAG Model and the STORM Model, then they either need to harden up, or form an intranet.

On an intranet, the public do not have to look at their evangelistic ( thanks cuttlefish ) exhortations and denial of the role of Storm and the Cassimatises in this sorry blitzrieg of good people's, hardworking Australian's, savings.

Its all evangelistic bull**** that got the Storm victims into this in the first place, and Manny would leave Jimmy Swaggart for dead in a pulpit.

gg

specialed said:

I gather those who are outside of the situation , and their opinions matter little as they are not members of SICAG. Those who support what it is doing, that is the members, have a voice and are reguarly in contact with whom ever they wish within the group. I guess those who are on the outside maybe need to worry less about the groups business unless of course they choose to join and have a voice, which of course they are free to do. I'm sure it is very obvious to those within SICAG, that is its members, that there IS something rotten around, and it is those who wish to worry more about what SICAG is doing then what STORM, CGI, CBA and others have done....

Click to expand...

And I'm sure exactly the same type of argument would have been used if anyone was critical of the Storm group prior to its collapse. How dare anyone question them ... if you're not part of the 'club' just stay out ... anyone can become a Storm client and share in the wealth etc. etc. etc.

The same pattern is happening with SICAG. Nobody from SICAG has yet been able to explain why they are completely silent on Storms role in the matter and continue to endorse the Storm model. Why is SICAG scared to be critical of Storm - there is only one logical explanation.

Storm was run like some sort of evangelistic religious group and SICAG seems to have a lot of similarities. Protecting its members from the 'threat' of outsiders, not explaining or answering valid questions but instead using isolation tactics.

I have no vested interest one way or the other - I've never had anything to do with Storm or SICAG so I'm just providing feedback to those that are involved as to what it looks like to an independant, unbiased observer.

It sounds like clients of Storm could have benefited from the same independant observations prior to its collapse - maybe some may have seen it for what it was and gotten out before it inevitably unravelled.

Garpal Gumnut said:

To all the Storm victims, that is the nuts of why many asf members distrust SICAG.

For better or worse, SICAG's public face is on the internet, for all to see and comment.

If they can't tolerate comment about their SICAG Model and the STORM Model, then they either need to harden up, or form an intranet.

On an intranet, the public do not have to look at their evangelistic ( thanks cuttlefish ) exhortations and denial of the role of Storm and the Cassimatises in this sorry blitzrieg of good people's, hardworking Australian's, savings.

Its all evangelistic bull**** that got the Storm victims into this in the first place, and Manny would leave Jimmy Swaggart for dead in a pulpit.

gg

Click to expand...

gg,

I caught up with a non-SICAG Stormer yesterday, he's at a pretty low ebb at the moment. I believe he's got all his faith in the resolution process that's in place to give him back something so the family will have some meager quality of life in the future.

He's very worried about where he is going to end up and blaming himself for allowing the family to be in this situation. He did mention to me that he always felt Storm looked after him well and can't really believe he's ended up in this state.

This made me wonder why the saga has ended up where it has now. I believe that the appalling lack of leadership from the Banking and Storm side right at the beginning of this event has been a prime causal factor in ending up where the saga is now.

It's better for those who have erred to step forward, divulge what they know, cop it on the chin and face the consequences now, those Stormers who placed their faith in these people are now living with the consequences of believing the utopia that they were upsold.

May be I'm just expecting just a little too much.

SICAG website is using my favorite Thomas Jefferson quote:

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

Click to expand...

SICAG has gone all socialistic.

Privatise the gains and socialise the losses.

I do feel sorry for some of the investors that got caught up in the Storm model, BUT I do not feel sorry for the investors that knowingly went along for the ride and that believe it was all the banks fault.

Macquack said:

Privatise the gains and socialise the losses

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Yes, as practiced by the Board of City Pacific - they split the show up real nicely. However, they described the process as 'consolidation' and 'deconsolidation':-

(1) when times were good, then City consolidated the FMF in order that the surpluses from the FMF were directed to City's coffers (City's idea of privitisation) - but,

(2) when times went bad, then City deconsolidated in order to leave the losses to the investors (City's idea of socialism).

Yes, the entity controlling the switch between 'private' / 'public' will certainly determine who will win and who will lose.

I'd guess that this sort of self-interest is a common thread running though many investments managed by shrewd managers eager to put the blame (and consequences) elsewhere when the enterprises they control go pear-shaped.

Solly said:

gg,

I caught up with a non-SICAG Stormer yesterday, he's at a pretty low ebb at the moment. I believe he's got all his faith in the resolution process that's in place to give him back something so the family will have some meager quality of life in the future.

He's very worried about where he is going to end up and blaming himself for allowing the family to be in this situation. He did mention to me that he always felt Storm looked after him well and can't really believe he's ended up in this state.

This made me wonder why the saga has ended up where it has now. I believe that the appalling lack of leadership from the Banking and Storm side right at the beginning of this event has been a prime causal factor in ending up where the saga is now.

It's better for those who have erred to step forward, divulge what they know, cop it on the chin and face the consequences now, those Stormers who placed their faith in these people are now living with the consequences of believing the utopia that they were upsold.

May be I'm just expecting just a little too much.

Click to expand...

I'd agree totally. I have a mate who is a non SICAG follower, in actual fact he's so knackered he has lost all heart in everything.

Certainly it would be kinder if the guilty stepped forward and bared all.

But they won't. Because they are greedy little bastards with greedy little minds, and have no real contact with ordinary people.

And I totally agree about Storm and the Banks.

gg

Don't forget what's coming up.

Parliamentary Joint Committee on Corporations and
Financial Services

Inquiry into financial products and services
Date Wednesday, 28 October 2009
Start 5.00 pm – 9.30pm
Venue Committee Room 2S3
Address Parliament House, Canberra 2600

5.00 pm – 6.00 pm
Macquarie Bank Limited
Mr Richard Sheppard, Managing
Director and CEO
Mr Peter van der Westhuyzen,
Executive Director

6.00 pm – 6.30 pm Dinner break

6.30 pm – 8.30 pm
Commonwealth Bank
Mr Ralph Norris, Chief Executive Officer
Mr David Cohen, Group General Counsel
Mr Ian Narev, Group Executive,
Business & Private Banking
Mr Matthew Comyn, Executive
General Manager, Equities & Margin Lending
Dr Brendan French, General Manager Customer Relations

8.30 pm – 9.30 pm Witness(es) to be confirmed

9.30 pm Adjournment

Garpal Gumnut said:

I'd agree totally. I have a mate who is a non SICAG follower, in actual fact he's so knackered he has lost all heart in everything.

Certainly it would be kinder if the guilty stepped forward and bared all.

But they won't. Because they are greedy little bastards with greedy little minds, and have no real contact with ordinary people.

And I totally agree about Storm and the Banks.

gg

Click to expand...

gg,

If it doesn't look like things are making progress with the inquiry, examinations, etc why don't we invite EC & JC down to Gloria Jeans at Cannon Hill Plaza for a friendly chat, a couple of cappuccinos and some filo pastries.

We could then get the real inside story of what actually happened and we could then post the transcripts on ASF for all to see. I could pick you up from the Airport in my Toyota Crown, pick up EC & JC and head off to the Plaza. I'm sure we could get to the bottom of what happened by the end of the second filo. It shouldn't take long and this could all be done on a day trip and no need for the inconvenience of an overnighter.

If you think this is a good idea I could drop an invite in their letter box in London Rd.

This could be a real scoop, may be we could ask fellow forum members & Stormers if there are any questions we should pose....