Smart Meters

Eager said:

Any power station must be allowed to close its doors. I don't think there is a chronic shortage either - Victoria hasn't had brownouts for years despite rapid population growth. Several gas-fired plants have come on stream in the past decade or so

Click to expand...

Meanwhile demand has increased by far more than the total of the gas-fired plants plus Basslink (which is actually 594 MW north-bound by the way, and 478 MW south-bound) to the point that reserve margins are barely adequate even if everything goes to plan.

Even if every single power station within the physical borders of Vic, including Mortlake, is running at full capacity, the state still can't meet peak demand without supply from interstate. That's a fact. Worth considering also that it wouldn't be wise to count on everything actually running flat out all at once - you've got one plant that has always had ongoing operational problems causing capacity loss for a start which can't necessarily achieve full output even with all units online.

I can assure you that on a day of high demand, Vic is very much dependent on supply from NSW and Tas. In theory there is also the option of supply from SA - but the availability of surplus from there really depends on whether or not the wind is blowing. SA is, of course, also home to the most unreliable power station in the country (though thankfully it's not that large).

I won't name individual plants for reasons of keeping myself safe from lawyers, but I'll just say this about real power stations in Vic.

Plant 1 - Virtually bankrupt. I have no info on what is happening at an operational level (other than their blatant attempts to ramp up prices by withdrawing supply during the peaks) but I'd speculate that maintenance probably isn't a priority...

Plant 2 - It's no secret that the owners want to close the plant within a decade and that maintenance is being neglected.

Plant 3 - Has recently reached the end of its original design life but thus far nothing is planned. Those with a bit of sense will realise that if something has a specified design life then there's probably a good reason why...

Now, I'll just add that none of those plants are Hazelwood. And of course there's the one in SA that basically never reaches full output and is about as reliable as a candle in a storm.

Victorians will probably find this out the hard way at some point with a series of breakdowns throwing the state into chaos. There's no certainty, but it's a plausible scenario that's for sure and an outcome that wouldn't really surprise anyone who has an idea of what's going on. It's no secret that some in the industry have placed themselves to profit from such an occurrence - it's certainly a scenario that is at least considered plausible.

Sometime after that, they'll start wondering where to get gas from as the development of baseload gas-fired plants will suck Bass Strait gas dry in the not too distant future and forces reliance on CSM from Qld / NSW, priced at export parity with the development of the LNG plants in Qld. Then it gets interesting...

Much as it bothers me to say it, I really do think we're going to have to have a crisis in order to get the energy issue sorted out properly. Prices are becoming and issue, and the official line is that more huge rises are to come in the near future, but whilst the lights actually stay on the odds are that nothing will really be done.

Make no mistake, behind the scenes they're working on it. The item at the link talks of Greens fury at being outed by John Rolfe of the Telegraph. Note the use of the term 'National', and that apparently it's unusual to want to cook before 8pm.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...graph/comments/greens_attack_a_hollo_argument
“Charging consumers more for electricity during the evening peak, and less at other times, is among a raft of ‘policy options’ contained in a discussion paper made public yesterday.’’

That paper was called “National Energy Savings Initiative’’. Our [The Telegraph] story focused on time-of-use pricing—done by installing smart meters...

...On page six of the issues paper under “Policy options for delivering energy efficiency improvements’’ it cites “moves in the national energy market towards time-of-use pricing’’.
Again on page 74 under “Energy consumers response to peak demand reduction incentives’’ it says “an appropriately designed energy savings initiative may offer an avenue to address low peak response uptake’’ before noting one barrier was “Lack of appropriate metering: Time-of-use metering (interval or smart meters ...)’’.

"He [GREENS media adviser Tim Hollo] then described as “unusual people’’ those who wanted to cook before the peak’s end at 8pm."

Click to expand...

Logique said:

Make no mistake, behind the scenes they're working on it. The item at the link talks of Greens fury at being outed by John Rolfe of the Telegraph. Note the use of the term 'National', and that apparently it's unusual to want to cook before 8pm.

Click to expand...

Back in the good old days, an electricity utility existed to serve its customers and not the other way around. It was only in a times of crisis that the public were asked to take any particular course of action, and such events were something that happened once or twice in a generation.

From a technical perspective, smart meters are simply not necessary in order to maintain a reliable and economical system unless gas and hydro are about to disappear as a means of generation. In practice, the use of both has never been higher and they're not going away any time soon.

As for what you should do about it, a few pointers. Obviously the first thing to do is to improve efficiency and reduce consumption, but after that:

1. Space heating - use reverse cycle A/C, mains gas or wood if you're in a climate that needs significant heating. The other options, electric heaters, LPG, pellets and liquid fuels, will do the job but will cost a fortune if you're using a lot of heat - they're OK for somewhere like Brisbane though where usage will normally be low.

2. Cooling - go for an evaporative system if you're somewhere with low humidity. Adelaide and Perth certainly they are the go, and you'll usually get away with it in Melbourne. Don't bother with one in Sydney or areas north however - it's too humid for them to work properly.

3. Hot water - you want either solar with mains gas or off-peak electric boost, or a heat pump connected to off-peak. Don't mess about heating water at peak rates unless you've got money to burn and don't use LPG for the same reason. If you don't have an "official" off-peak rate then a timer installed at the switchboard (any electrician will be able to install this) and set to the cheapest times on the smart meter will produce the same effect. There's simply no good reason in most homes to be heating water at peak rates - treat as a fool any salesman who tries to convince you otherwise (at best, they're selling a dud product...).

4. Cooking - gas cooktop is a no brainer. Use LPG if you don't have mains gas. For the oven, either mains gas or electricity is the way to go.

5. Dryers, dishwashers, swimming pool pumps etc - that's where you can put the smart meter to some benefit. I can't see any reason why you couldn't shift at least a large portion of the usage to the cheapest times.

For anything else, it's a case of either pay the going rate or suffer significant inconvenience to shift consumption to a cheaper time. As for cooking before 8pm - well the Winter peak demand in most states is about 6:15pm and it's no secret that cooking is a significant contributor to this.

Generally good and valid points, smurf;

except, where Perth is concerned:

Smurf1976 said:

2. Cooling - go for an evaporative system if you're somewhere with low humidity. Adelaide and Perth certainly they are the go, and you'll usually get away with it in Melbourne. Don't bother with one in Sydney or areas north however - it's too humid for them to work properly.

Click to expand...

the humidity has been increasing around here, so the evaporative coolers are no longer such a good idea. What does help though: Insulation. Insulation. Insulation!
Keep doors and windows closed during the heat of the day, and open during the night. It's also worth trying to find the temperature, up to which you still feel comfortable, and how much better you feel with a gentle breeze from a ceiling fan.

As regards Solar hot water: We had an electric booster installed, but stipulated it to be switched on manually when needed. In almost 3 years, including 3 winters, we haven't boosted more than maybe five hours. If we still had children living at home, or found we needed significantly more hot water than the 300L our system can provide, I'd rather add a second unit or try and get a larger one.

Thus, the only electricity we use is for cooking, lighting, and running TV and PCs. The latter are switched off at the wall when not in use; changing the kitchen to gas was not an option because of installation costs. However, I do use the outdoor BBQ a lot, which is gas bottle-fed.
In our climate, we don't really need a clothes dryer; rarely, even in winter, are weeks when we can't find a day that's dry enough to schedule the laundry; and our weather forecasters are usually quite reliable. Those few exceptions don't then amount to much.

pixel said:

Generally good and valid points, smurf;

except, where Perth is concerned:

the humidity has been increasing around here, so the evaporative coolers are no longer such a good idea. What does help though: Insulation. Insulation. Insulation!
Keep doors and windows closed during the heat of the day, and open during the night. It's also worth trying to find the temperature, up to which you still feel comfortable, and how much better you feel with a gentle breeze from a ceiling fan.

Click to expand...

Am in Perth atm on holiday, where we return most Christmas times. Perth is still dry compared to many places. We now live in Vic & it's helpful there, and it's more humid than Perth. So I wouldn't say they aren't a good idea.

Insulation and double glazing should be mandatory for new houses - no exceptions. But the Govt's are too gutless to legislate this.

pixel said:

Generally good and valid points, smurf;

except, where Perth is concerned:

the humidity has been increasing around here, so the evaporative coolers are no longer such a good idea. What does help though: Insulation. Insulation. Insulation!
Keep doors and windows closed during the heat of the day, and open during the night. It's also worth trying to find the temperature, up to which you still feel comfortable, and how much better you feel with a gentle breeze from a ceiling fan.

As regards Solar hot water: We had an electric booster installed, but stipulated it to be switched on manually when needed. In almost 3 years, including 3 winters, we haven't boosted more than maybe five hours. If we still had children living at home, or found we needed significantly more hot water than the 300L our system can provide, I'd rather add a second unit or try and get a larger one.

Thus, the only electricity we use is for cooking, lighting, and running TV and PCs. The latter are switched off at the wall when not in use; changing the kitchen to gas was not an option because of installation costs. However, I do use the outdoor BBQ a lot, which is gas bottle-fed.
In our climate, we don't really need a clothes dryer; rarely, even in winter, are weeks when we can't find a day that's dry enough to schedule the laundry; and our weather forecasters are usually quite reliable. Those few exceptions don't then amount to much.

Click to expand...

I agree with most of what you are saying pixel, but could add, if you only have electric i.e no natural gas available.
A portable inductive cooktop can be purchased for about $100, great for quick efficient heating. Actually there is a $59 on the internet( just make sure your pans are magnetic).
Also if you are into pressure cookers the electric ones for $59 are brilliant.
When updating your t.v, the newer l.e.d ones use only 25% of the power the old plasmas used.
If you have an electric water heater and can't afford a solar, choose the smallest size you need. For example if you live in a duplex on your own or even two people a 50litre storage takes no time to heat up. So switch it on 20minutes before your going to have a shower and switch it off before you go to work.
Ceiling fans in the bedroom above the bed( not in the middle of the room) is probably the best $100 spent.
Shade the west wall of the house.
I live in Perth and use an evaporative a/c, like pixel says they don't work as well as they used to. However the difference in running costs between refridgerative and evaporative is huge.

Smurf1976 said:

5. Dryers, dishwashers, swimming pool pumps etc - that's where you can put the smart meter to some benefit. I can't see any reason why you couldn't shift at least a large portion of the usage to the cheapest times.

Click to expand...

If you're running solar heating for the pool, you have to have the pool pump running when the sun is most effective, hence no real choice about time of day when needing to heat the water.

pixel said:

It's also worth trying to find the temperature, up to which you still feel comfortable, and how much better you feel with a gentle breeze from a ceiling fan.

Click to expand...

Agree. So much more pleasant than air conditioning.

Thus, the only electricity we use is for cooking, lighting, and running TV and PCs.

Click to expand...

You never use any heating even in winter?

sptrawler said:

I live in Perth and use an evaporative a/c, like pixel says they don't work as well as they used to. However the difference in running costs between refridgerative and evaporative is huge.

Click to expand...

An interesting observation and the increasing humidity in Perth is something I wasn't aware of. But if an evap works then it's still going to be massively cheaper to run than a refrigerated air conditioner.

The one thing that really does still surprise me though is that electricity has almost become a mainstream subject of conversation across the country. I never thought it would come to that, and with the expected 37% increase in prices by 2014 (which is just 2 years away...) I can't see the issue going away anytime soon. At this rate we'll end up with power as a national issue at the next election - I thought that only happened in Tas state elections LOL.

Julia said:

If you're running solar heating for the pool, you have to have the pool pump running when the sun is most effective, hence no real choice about time of day when needing to heat the water.

Click to expand...

True, but really I think this is an example of where design could be improved. The volume of water needing to be moved in order to heat it, is far less than that which needs filtering. A very much smaller pump could operate during the day for heating, with the main filtering task done at a different time when power is cheaper.

It makes things more complex that is true, but if there's money to be saved then I'd expect someone will market such a system before too much longer.

Julia said:

You never use any heating even in winter?

Click to expand...

oops! yes, we do: our aircon is reverse-cycle. And I have a small heater fan in the office.
We also afford the luxury of a waterbed that requires occasional heater support..

But I hope I can be forgiven for not thinking about heating at a time when the thermometer bounces between 28 and 41 centigrades

Anyway, insulation and some consideration as to when to open windows and when not go a long way to keep power consumption down.

Smurf1976 said:

An interesting observation and the increasing humidity in Perth is something I wasn't aware of. But if an evap works then it's still going to be massively cheaper to run than a refrigerated air conditioner.

The one thing that really does still surprise me though is that electricity has almost become a mainstream subject of conversation across the country. I never thought it would come to that, and with the expected 37% increase in prices by 2014 (which is just 2 years away...) I can't see the issue going away anytime soon. At this rate we'll end up with power as a national issue at the next election - I thought that only happened in Tas state elections LOL.

Click to expand...

Well today in Perth 40 degrees, the evap was not at its best due to a few clouds around.
However did keep the house at 25 degrees, will leave it on overnight as the expected minimum is 24. The ceiling fan will help and humidity tends to drop overnight.

sptrawler said:

Well today in Perth 40 degrees, the evap was not at its best due to a few clouds around.
However did keep the house at 25 degrees, will leave it on overnight as the expected minimum is 24. The ceiling fan will help and humidity tends to drop overnight.

Click to expand...

25 is a lot better than 40... They're not perfect, but it comes down to a question of whether or not you're prepared to use 10 times as much power to get it down to 22 rather than 25.

As for humidity and clouds, the amount of that we're getting here in Tas is ridiculous for this time of year. The top half of the mountain has been hidden by low cloud just about every day for the past month or so. Normally at this time of year you'd easily be able to see the top.

Swampies work the best when you don't really even need them on.
Tassie aircon lol