Smart Meters

[Logique]

A search didn't turn up an existing thread - anybody on electricity smart metering, especially Victorians, where I've heard it may become compulsory. What is the experience? If you avoid the peak tariff period 2pm - 8pm may not be too bad? Did you have the option to remain on your existing tariff structure?

 

[orr]

Through Crikey from the Climate Spectator

http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/06/06/parkinson-are-australian-utilities-smart-enough/

One of those accelerated opportunities reconciling carbon throws up.

 

[Smurf1976]

At this rate ASF is going to turn into Smurf's Power Forum (SPF)... :

You are likely to be using more than an average consumer at peak times, and thus lose from Time Of Use metering, if:

You have electric cooking and heating.
You have continuous (not off-peak) electric hot water and run baths for children in the late afternoon etc.
The house is occupied during weekday afternoons and you have air-conditioning.

On the other hand, you might benefit if:

House is empty during the day.
Cooking and heating is non-electric .
You are a shift worker cooking dinner at 3am etc.

To be perfectly honest, most people with an electrical background would need a bit of time to work it out properly for their own residence. Don't forget all the things like fridges, things on standby, fish tanks with lights on a timer and so on.

I generally wouldn't advocate that anyone should go onto Time Of Use pricing unless they are either being forced or are certain they will benefit. It's not an easy thing for the average person to work out properly - don't forget things like school holidays affecting consumption.

 

[burglar]

... Smurf's Power Forum (SPF)... :
...

Sounds like a soap powder

NOW WITH BLUE BEADS of BLEACH

lol

 

[poverty]

Apparently they show up while you're at work, install the meter leaving a nice shiny sticker on your meter box explaining how much you'll be paying thru the ****. Add the carbon tax on top of that and you're screwed unless you're a bum and have 5 kids.

 

[Tink]

No we never really had an option. We pretty much had a letter in the mail that we were getting them and that was it.

My bills are about the same as most is gas in my home and I do most at night as I work during the day.

 

[Logique]

At this rate ASF is going to turn into Smurf's Power Forum (SPF)... :...

Keep up the good work mate. Your thoughts on time of use pricing were what I had feared.

It is being claimed in some quarters that going to solar panels may prompt the power utilities to bump you up the list for smart meter installation, allowing them to claw back some of the householder's gains.

However everyone I've asked around here with panels (NSW) said this hadn't been the case for them. Smart meters for now seem mainly a Victorian phenomenon, but realistically how long can it be. I'm going with gas for cooking/heating and hot water, this will help a bit.

 

[pixel]

I suppose the new digital two-way meter we got after installing Solar PV is "smart".
As regards time-of-use pricing, we were offered that option, but decided not to, for similar reasons as smurf gave. The feed-in tariff is never timed, and during most of the year, I'll use the main power-consuming gadgets - my computers and monitors - during the day. In a two-person household with Solar Hot Water and only one fridge, there's not much else to consider.

PS: Last billing period, our meter was smart enough to tell Western Power that they owed us and we only have a 2KW PV system.

 

[joea]

There is no doubt about the innovation in thinking with Labor, when it comes to increasing prices or taxes.

They have now worked out how to penalize you when you do not use power at the correct time.

i.e. bill you an additional cost on the same article. In this case electricity.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...chilly-reception/story-e6freuzi-1226228894728

So next, they will apply this (idea) to driving on the road to reduce traffic congestion.

I hope Nauru is opened, and about half a dozen rooms are renovated, for the three clowns running this government and we can throw in three independents as well.
joea

 

[MACCA350]

A few months ago after we received a letter in the mail regarding the instillation of the new smart meters in our area the installer turned up on our doorstep. He knocked on the door and started to explain what he was about to do.....I cut him off and said we didn't want it installed. He thanked me profusely for not making him explain the whole thing in detail before saying we didn't want it, crossed us off his list(or something like that) then left with a smile.

He said he has so many people that waste his time asking a bunch of questions before saying they never wanted it in the first place, he wished they'd be upfront in the first place. I think it may stem from the perception that it is mandatory and people don't have a choice.........maybe.

Cheers

 

[xyzedarteerf]

had ours installed about 8 months ago...Like many I had a lot of doubts, but contrary to popular beliefs our Electric usage has actually gone down. but then again the prices have gone up so you can't win anyway...

 

[Julia]

. I think it may stem from the perception that it is mandatory and people don't have a choice.........maybe.
Cheers

Well, thanks for telling us that, Macca. I certainly had the impression that it was going to be mandatory.

 

[ColB]

Well, thanks for telling us that, Macca. I certainly had the impression that it was going to be mandatory.

It is mandatory in Victoria. Recently we did have the option to advise the installers that if we didn't want one they would not install it straight away. This option changed recently and like it or not you will eventually have one in Victoria.

Don't think for one minute that there is any likelihood you will be better off because of this technology. The next step will be that in peak periods we will have to pay a higher usage rate to presumably deter customers from putting on the airconditioners so the supplier can keep up with demand without experiencing brownouts etc.

Add to this the assertion by some customers that have experienced housefires allegedly caused by the smart meter installation and illnesses from alleged electrical fields/radiation emitted from the meters they're not sounding too smart to some.

 

[bellenuit]

It is mandatory in Victoria. Recently we did have the option to advise the installers that if we didn't want one they would not install it straight away. This option changed recently and like it or not you will eventually have one in Victoria.

Don't think for one minute that there is any likelihood you will be better off because of this technology. The next step will be that in peak periods we will have to pay a higher usage rate to presumably deter customers from putting on the airconditioners so the supplier can keep up with demand without experiencing brownouts etc.

Add to this the assertion by some customers that have experienced housefires allegedly caused by the smart meter installation and illnesses from alleged electrical fields/radiation emitted from the meters they're not sounding too smart to some.

I am not sure what the situation is over east, but in WA you have the option of installing a smart meter, but if you have solar that feeds into the grid, it is mandatory.

However, even if you have the smart meter installed and this applies if you have solar as well, you can choose to be billed either on the flat A1 tariff (same as for the old meters) or the smart power rate. The A1 tariff is approx 21 cents /kWh all day.

The smart power rate varies between weekends and working week, and for the latter also between summer (Oct - Mar) and Winter (Apr - Sep).

For smart power there are 4 billing periods in the day; 7am - 11 am (per 1), 11am - 5pm (per 2), 5pm - 9pm (per 3) and 9pm - 7am (per 4). These are the approximate rates for these periods relative to the A1 Tariff (21 cents)

Weekends - Per 1, 2 and 3 - slightly less than A1
Weekends - Per 4 - Half A1

Summer Weekdays - Per 1 and Per 3 - slightly less than A1
Summer Weekdays - Per 2 - Double A1
Summer Weekdays - Per 4 - Half A1

Winter Weekdays - Per 1 and Per 3 - Double A1
Winter Weekdays - Per 2 - slightly less than A1
Winter Weekdays - Per 4 - Half A1

These rates encourage you to shift power usage to Per 4 and to Weekends. Most people also are ahead in Summer, as they are not usually at home during Per 2 (11am - 5pm) when rates are double A1. Winter is the hardest as it is difficult to avoid using power in the high usage periods 1 and 3.

Although it is hard to separate the savings from Solar from those (if any) from just being on smart power, personally we think we are paying less just by being on smart power.

WA allows you to switch tariffs at any time, but each change costs $65

 

[Julia]

Many thanks for the above detail, bellenuit. It's quite complex to work out which way to go.
Most of my electricity goes on pool running, especially with heating in winter.
To make the most of the solar pool heating it has to run during the most expensive time in winter. Ditto the heat pump.
Summer would offer an advantage with being able to run filter through the night.

Undoubtedly they've well and truly worked out that they'll derive more income from us whichever choice we make.

 

[todster]

I am not sure what the situation is over east, but in WA you have the option of installing a smart meter, but if you have solar that feeds into the grid, it is mandatory.

However, even if you have the smart meter installed and this applies if you have solar as well, you can choose to be billed either on the flat A1 tariff (same as for the old meters) or the smart power rate. The A1 tariff is approx 21 cents /kWh all day.

The smart power rate varies between weekends and working week, and for the latter also between summer (Oct - Mar) and Winter (Apr - Sep).

For smart power there are 4 billing periods in the day; 7am - 11 am (per 1), 11am - 5pm (per 2), 5pm - 9pm (per 3) and 9pm - 7am (per 4). These are the approximate rates for these periods relative to the A1 Tariff (21 cents)

Weekends - Per 1, 2 and 3 - slightly less than A1
Weekends - Per 4 - Half A1

Summer Weekdays - Per 1 and Per 3 - slightly less than A1
Summer Weekdays - Per 2 - Double A1
Summer Weekdays - Per 4 - Half A1

Winter Weekdays - Per 1 and Per 3 - Double A1
Winter Weekdays - Per 2 - slightly less than A1
Winter Weekdays - Per 4 - Half A1

These rates encourage you to shift power usage to Per 4 and to Weekends. Most people also are ahead in Summer, as they are not usually at home during Per 2 (11am - 5pm) when rates are double A1. Winter is the hardest as it is difficult to avoid using power in the high usage periods 1 and 3.

Although it is hard to separate the savings from Solar from those (if any) from just being on smart power, personally we think we are paying less just by being on smart power.

WA allows you to switch tariffs at any time, but each change costs $65

Then throw 10% GST on top.

 

[Smurf1976]

IDon't think for one minute that there is any likelihood you will be better off because of this technology. The next step will be that in peak periods we will have to pay a higher usage rate to presumably deter customers from putting on the airconditioners so the supplier can keep up with demand without experiencing brownouts etc.

The underlying reason is that, quite simply, there has been chronic under investment in supply ever since the industry was privatised / de-regulated and the chickens are about to come home to roost.

Why first in Victoria? Because Vic was the first to privatise and has by far the worst supply situation. The state depends very heavily on some rather old power stations (which are being under maintained - ticking time bomb there which will go off in a big way someday...) and simply hasn't built much at all in recent times.

Victoria depends heavily on NSW and Tas to keep the lights on during peaks in demand as Vic simply doesn't have enough generating capacity to do so itself. SA is much the same. However, the day is fast approaching where even flat out production in NSW and Tas won't be able to prop up the situation in Vic and at that point the lights really will go out.

Worth noting that the former SECV was established in 1918 specifically due to the problem of NSW cutting off fuel supplies to Victoria on a routine basis. Short memories...

 

[sptrawler]

The underlying reason is that, quite simply, there has been chronic under investment in supply ever since the industry was privatised / de-regulated and the chickens are about to come home to roost.

Why first in Victoria? Because Vic was the first to privatise and has by far the worst supply situation. The state depends very heavily on some rather old power stations (which are being under maintained - ticking time bomb there which will go off in a big way someday...) and simply hasn't built much at all in recent times.

Victoria depends heavily on NSW and Tas to keep the lights on during peaks in demand as Vic simply doesn't have enough generating capacity to do so itself. SA is much the same. However, the day is fast approaching where even flat out production in NSW and Tas won't be able to prop up the situation in Vic and at that point the lights really will go out.

Worth noting that the former SECV was established in 1918 specifically due to the problem of NSW cutting off fuel supplies to Victoria on a routine basis. Short memories...

I can't see how the carbon tax is going to improve the viability of investment in generating plant.
If, as you say the shortage is chronic at the moment and the government want to shut Hazelwood, how will that work out?

 

[Eager]

I can't see how the carbon tax is going to improve the viability of investment in generating plant.
If, as you say the shortage is chronic at the moment and the government want to shut Hazelwood, how will that work out?

Any power station must be allowed to close its doors. I don't think there is a chronic shortage either - Victoria hasn't had brownouts for years despite rapid population growth. Several gas-fired plants have come on stream in the past decade or so (94MW at Bairnsdale, 320MW at Laverton Nth, 300MW adjacent to the coal fired Loy Yang power station) with another 550MW from the new plant at Mortlake imminent, and at risk of being howled down, there is a significant contribution from wind turbines - well over 400MW of installed capacity. Even domestic solar contributes over 1MW now! The 500MW 'Basslink' interconnector from Tassie is only a few years old too - that capacity simply wasn't there until fairly recently.

Everyone seems to assume that Hazelwood will close which would immediately remove 1600MW out of the grid. Not true. If it closes, and because it has 8 separate generating units, it would more than likely be a staggered closure over several years. It is equally plausible that only some of its units will shut down, allowing a dilapidated plant somewhere else in the country to take advantage of the contract for closure program.

The theory with the advent of the carbon tax is that electricity suppliers will have to come up with cleaner power stations if they want to remain viable.

 

[Eager]

Further: After re-reading what sptrawler wrote, which I quoted above, I feel the need to correct him. He is wrong when he says that the gov't want to shut Hazelwood, simply because they can't - because they don't own the friggin' thing!

No doubt want he meant to say was that the gov't want to SEE it shut. Pedantic I know, but at least accurate.