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Should the GST be increased/widened?


Bingo.
 
Yes, and this Tax you suggest would not help them

If you have been reading from the start, tax on inputs is offset by a lowered tax on profits.

People who can innovate and reduce their costs are rewarded by paying less tax for their efforts. Isn't that what competition and incentive are all about ?

If you can eliminate profits tax altogether then you can get rid of a massively complex and inefficient accounting and compliance bureaucracy that smart lawyers can drive a truck through. I don't really see how you can say that the GST is "overly complicated" when it's one of the most efficient taxes to collect, and very hard to avoid.
 

why not just keep the system we have, a simple tax that is 10% of the final sale price, and a 30% tax on business profits. Seems fair and very simple.

If you can eliminate profits tax altogether

Profits are what should be taxed.

I don't really see how you can say that the GST is "overly complicated" when it's one of the most efficient taxes to collect

You suggested system of offsetting imports with tariffs. overtaxing the public but offsetting that with other tax breaks etc is complex
 
why not just keep the system we have, a simple tax that is 10% of the final sale price, and a 30% tax on business profits. Seems fair and very simple.

You call the corporate tax compliance system SIMPLE ? Really ? How many accountants and tax inspectors are needed to audit and inspect the accounts of businesses ? It's massively complex and expensive.

And you call the system FAIR when companies can profit shift and minimise their tax ?

The current system is neither simple or fair.

Profits are what should be taxed.

Why ?

You suggested system of offsetting imports with tariffs. overtaxing the public but offsetting that with other tax breaks etc is complex

No more complex than what we have now, and I don't think it would overtax the public if the GST rate was lowered.
 
Businesses who make a loss should think whether they should be in business.

Business can have bad years.

Wouldn't business spending on upgrades, repairs and other business expenses also stop with no deductions?


Also assembling a product from multiple materials under this tax system would wear a lot of the tax and business would simply offshore.


Is this a similar idea to old 'One Nations' 2% tax?
 
Business can have bad years.

I'm sure arrangements could be made

Wouldn't business spending on upgrades, repairs and other business expenses also stop with no deductions?

Business has to think about whether the upgrades etc will be good for them in the long run. If these things add to the bottom line profit (on which they pay less tax) then they will do them. Capital expenditure could be treated differently to revenue expenditure for taxation purposes.

Also assembling a product from multiple materials under this tax system would wear a lot of the tax and business would simply offshore.

The compensation is to pay less tax on the bottom line.

Is this a similar idea to old 'One Nations' 2% tax?

I don't know, what was that ?
 

Business already has a strong incentive to minimise costs. But if your production is taxed, and an overseas competitor's isn't, then you've got no real chance of survival in the long term. You'll always be at a disadvantage to the untaxed rival.

I don't see how adding a tax somehow leads to lower business costs. And in industries where the cost cannot be passed on at all (anything trade exposed), that's a problem.
 
If capital flows into more lightly taxed industries because they are more efficient what's wrong with that ?

Being more lightly taxed has no bearing on efficiency, unless you are proposing that the rate of tax be set for each individual business based on some objective measure of efficiency. That would be incredibly difficult to administer.
 
What local steel ?

Whyalla (One Steel) and Port Kembla (Bluescope) come immediately to mind as blast furnace facilities producing steel from iron ore and coal.

TEMCO in Tasmania makes ferro alloys, used in steel production, and exports most production to numerous overseas buyers.

There's also a number of places that melt down either raw steel or scrap in electric or gas furnaces in order to produce various end products.
 

I'm glad they still exist, but the future looks grim

 
GST goes to the states. How will that help the federal books.

No GST on fresh food.
 
Why not follow the Swiss and bring in broadly based wealth taxes.

The tax base for the wealth tax is net wealth, i.e. gross wealth reduced by the sum of the taxpayer's documented debt as well as personal allowances and social deductions that vary from canton to canton.

The table below shows the wealth tax due in the capital town of each canton. By way of an example, the annual tax for a net wealth of CHF 500,000 in the canton of Zürich is around 0.12 percent. The maximum individual wealth taxes levied in all cantons vary between 0.14 (Canton of Nidwalden) and nearly 1 percent (Canton of Geneva).



There's plenty of options out there to make our tax system far far more efficient. I'd like to see the Feds just cut back on grants to the states over say a decade, with savings directed to balancing the budget and eventually lowering income taxes when possible.

The states would then finally be forced into their own tax reform, whether it's via pushing for GST amendments or introducing broadly based land taxes. Resolve the fiscal imbalances where by the states are able to raise the revenue requird to meet their social obligations. Kill off the blame game between states and feds.

We have to kill off stamp duties and payroll tax, while drastically lowering corporate and income taxes. Reduce the revenue by half from those sources and replace with taxes that are less costly to implement and harder to avoid or minimise. That's why I like land taxes so much. It's practically impossible to avoid and only needs to be on land zoned commercial or residential.

Cracking down on trusts used to income share should also be a priority. that could net $1B a year in extra revenue.

Then we can start having a conversation along the lines proposed by Liberal Democrats Senator, David Leyonhjelm:


The “I’ve paid taxes all of my life” argument also doesn’t hold much weight, for reasons outlined above by Senator Leyonhjelm. As illustrated brilliantly by the Grattan Institute:

http://grattan.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/820-wealth-of-generations3.pdf

In the past, each generation took out more from the budget over its lifetime than it put in. This “generational bargain” was sustainable when incomes rose quickly – the norm for 70 years. However, government transfers from younger to older cohorts are now so large that future budgets may not be able to afford them as the population ages. Consequently, the generational bargain is at risk…

The Grattan Institute also showed that older households have captured most of the growth in Australia’s wealth over the past decade, with households aged between 65 and 74 some $200,000 wealthier today than households of that age 8 years ago. Meanwhile, the wealth of households aged 25 to 34 has gone backwards.



It is blatantly unfair to expect workers – whose share of the population will fall as the population ages and the proportion of retirees rises – to keep shouldering more and more of the tax burden and Budget cuts, at the same time as tax concessions on superannuation and housing, as well as access to the Aged Pension, go largely untouched.
 

It's also blatantly unfair to expect taxpayers to pay for other people's children via the family tax benefits which were introduced in a mining boom and are no longer affordable.

The government could simply say that these benefits would no longer be available for children born after say 30/6/2017, saving the budget billions from then on. Nothing is taken away from people that they are already getting, and those planning children will have to ensure that they are in a financial position to do so.

That should be part of the "personal responsibility" mantra that the Libs keep harping on about.


Or get rid of the States altogether. Federal takeover of public hospitals like Rudd proposed. Then turn States into administrative regions only without legislative powers.
 
So far as industry is concerned, something that is generally missed in discussion (everywhere) is that globalisation is not a new concept. It has been tried before, failed, and was followed by protectionism which lead to the establishment of most big industries, for example steel, car manufacturing, paper, chemicals, refineries and so on, in Australia in the first place.

We are now seeing what amounts to a currency war at the global level. That is the first stage of the failure of globalisation and an eventual return to protectionism. It will happen, the only question being the timing but the signs are there now that the pendulum has gone about as far as it's going to go in the free trade direction.

Once we get to that point, it matters little whether tax is applied at the point of production or at the point of sale, since with limited trade and protectionism it makes little difference in practice. But we're at the other extreme at the moment, and applying tax at the production end under present circumstances would bring a lot of pain economically so long as globalisation is still a going thing.

So far as the steel industry is concerned, I should have added to my previous post that there is also an iron pellet plant at Port Latta (Tas) which produces a bit over 2 million tonnes a year. The iron ore is sent from the mine (about 85km away) to the plant by pipeline - a world first when it was built but plenty of pipelines (globally) carry ores, coal etc these days.
 

Globalisation may be going on, but is there any sign of Europe lowering its tariff structure or the US reducing industry and agricultural subsidies ?
 
Syd mentioned the Grattan Institute above. The following is full article from today's "Australian": a bit long but worth a read.
 
Globalisation may be going on, but is there any sign of Europe lowering its tariff structure or the US reducing industry and agricultural subsidies ?

Thinking of every significant employer within the state which is engaged in actually producing something tangible (as distinct from simply warehousing, retailing etc), every single one of them ultimately competes against overseas producers of the same or similar goods and services.

Norske Skog, Nyrstar, Vodafone, Cascade, Boags, Incat, Impact, TEMCO, Bell Bay Aluminium, Grange, every mine and every farm. Even things like pie factories and the power industry to a large extent. They are all ultimately competing against overseas producers. The only ones who aren't are retailers of things not easily bought overseas, services such as car repairs, plumbers etc, the various activities of government and so on. But those who are actually making something physical, or serving a wider market outside the local area, are absolutely subject to competition.

Whilst I foresee the demise of globalisation at some future time, right now it's the only game in town so we need to play along. Taxation policy needs to bear this in mind - Australia is a high cost place to do business to start with, taxing production isn't going to help our situation. At some future time it might make sense, but not now
 

In that case perhaps we should take into account the level of subsidies that our overseas competitors receive when determining such things as tariffs and import quotas. Tax imports and use the money to subsidise our own producers.

Australia does not have the resources that Japan, China, Europe and the US use to subsidise their products and trying to compete on a level playing field is impossible because there isn't one. So we keep flogging ourselves trying to be "globally competitive" when our trading partners are taking us for a ride despite the much vaunted "free" trade agreements. What is the end game of all this ? Perhaps Europe and the US will eventually go broke subsidising their industries. I doubt it as they will then just print more money.

We are on a hiding to nothing whatever happens.
 
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