Should driving while tired be a criminal offence?

This is an issue that should be enforced more than many 'Speeding' tickets. Contrary to the self serving propaganda pushed by governments and Police departments for 'Revenue Raising', the state of mind of the driver is more related to accidents than speed per se.

The Brisbane Times article says in 2009/2010 it accounted for 23.3 per cent of the Christmas road toll.

Other key points from the article include:

• Driving while fatigued should become a criminal offence, with police given powers to take keys off tired drivers, a Queensland coroner says.
  
  
• One of Queensland Police's 'fatal four', fatigue is increasingly being identified as a contributing factor to fatalities on the state's roads.
  
  
• In 2009/2010 it accounted for 23.3 per cent of the Christmas road toll.
  
  
• Senior fatigue researcher at QUT's Centre for Accident Research and Road Safety – Queensland (CARRS-Q), Dr Simon Smith said ways of monitoring and warning drivers for fatigue were increasingly being investigated.
  
  
• “Fatigue is the area we have the most room to move in terms of research. It is the last big frontline and an effort in this direction will give the biggest return," Dr Smith said.
  
  
• He foreshadowed a day when police would have the ability to test drivers for fatigue with a roadside device, similar to an RBT.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ace-the-consequences-20110225-1b8fj.html#poll

I'm not sure about it being a criminal offence, but while other equally (or less) dangerous driving offences are a criminal offence, I could live with it, but initially prefer a compulsary rest period for reasonably detected fatigued drivers.

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

Whiskers said:

This is an issue that should be enforced more than many 'Speeding' tickets. Contrary to the self serving propaganda pushed by governments and Police departments for 'Revenue Raising', the state of mind of the driver is more related to accidents than speed per se.

The Brisbane Times article says in 2009/2010 it accounted for 23.3 per cent of the Christmas road toll.

Other key points from the article include:

• Driving while fatigued should become a criminal offence, with police given powers to take keys off tired drivers, a Queensland coroner says.
  
  
• One of Queensland Police's 'fatal four', fatigue is increasingly being identified as a contributing factor to fatalities on the state's roads.
  
  
• In 2009/2010 it accounted for 23.3 per cent of the Christmas road toll.
  
  
• Senior fatigue researcher at QUT's Centre for Accident Research and Road Safety – Queensland (CARRS-Q), Dr Simon Smith said ways of monitoring and warning drivers for fatigue were increasingly being investigated.
  
  
• “Fatigue is the area we have the most room to move in terms of research. It is the last big frontline and an effort in this direction will give the biggest return," Dr Smith said.
  
  
• He foreshadowed a day when police would have the ability to test drivers for fatigue with a roadside device, similar to an RBT.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ace-the-consequences-20110225-1b8fj.html#poll

I'm not sure about it being a criminal offence, but while other equally (or less) dangerous driving offences are a criminal offence, I could live with it, but initially prefer a compulsary rest period for reasonably detected fatigued drivers.

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How fatigued is to fatigued?

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

moXJO said:

How fatigued is to fatigued?

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That's the big question.

But for comparison say the same level of alertness, reaction time and ability etc of the .05 blood alcohol level... assuming a comparable test is accurate.

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

I think the majority of drivers could then then be classed as criminals. It would certainly relieve traffic congestion. It wouldn't help me of course. I would be one of the criminals.

High Blood Sugar And Tiredness
The fundamental defect in all patients with high blood sugar or diabetes is the diminished ability of insulin to encourage cells of the body to absorb glucose (sugar) molecules from the blood. Whether this reduced insulin activity is due to an insufficient amount of insulin produced, as in Type 1 diabetes, or from the inability of cells to react to the normal amount of insulin, the outcome is the same.

It results in blood glucose levels that are too high. High glucose in the blood is medically known as hyperglycemia.

People with type 1 diabetes do not produce enough insulin to transfer glucose out of the bloodstream into the cells. Those with type 2 are predisposed to a condition known as insulin resistance. This is a condition when the body is unable to detect or properly utilize insulin.

A common symptom of diabetes is fatigue. Fatigue is the result of the lack of energy because the cells are lacking in glucose, the source of energy. Fatigue is also caused because of several other complications arising from diabetes. Some of them are:

Hypoglycemia, or low blood glucose, where the body is starved of glucose because of lack of supply.
Hyperglycemia, or high blood sugar, where the body is starved of glucose though the supply is adequate, but it is unable to absorb the glucose into the cells.
Obesity, which reduces physical functioning.
Dehydration, a common symptom of diabetes, where the lack of fluid impairs the bodily functions.
High blood pressure, commonly associated with high blood sugar.
Diabetic neuropathy, where the nerves are damaged resulting in low blood pressure.

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http://www.scumdoctor.com/disease-p...rglycemia/High-Blood-Sugar-And-Tiredness.html

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

Try working a 12hr night shift and see if you drive home tired. Maybe we should live at work then that would overcome the problem.

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

I crashed my car a few weeks ago because I dozed off at the wheel.

It pissed me off because I bought the car brand new, looked after it so well and hit the guy in front of me, only 1 min away from my house! Hopefully get my car back next week.

I was a good lesson, if I dozed off on the freeway would of been alot worst


I driven after drinking (once) and most likely over the limit (wasn't off my head) and I can tell you, that driving tired is ALOT worst!

Now I carry an energy drink in my bag incase I feel a little tired. Those drinks give me a massive hit of energy since I don't drink any other caffeine

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

It would be extremely hard to enforce I'd imagine, and any convictions would be far too easy to appeal on the basis of procedural accuracy.

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

I reckon driving with cranky young kids in the car is as dangerous (if not more) as the mobile phone.

Ban them as well?...

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

It seems Orwellian.
How can anyone judge the level of fatigue in a person?

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

Listening to the radio, eating drive-thru Maccas, talking to other passengers, adjusting the radio... are all pretty dangerous.

Not sure we should have all these policed, however.

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

I agree with the sentiment but practically it has numerous issues.

1. Testable defnitation
2. Reliable testing
3. Many people live a distance from workplaces - often with poor alternatives to private transport
4. Contributing factors like someone working night shift during a heatwave, say in Tasmania where the work place won't have much temperature control and no air conditioning at home.
5. Could be extremely distruptive to many industries.

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

how about giving out medicinal amphetimines to drowsy drivers....

could have like "driver reviver" pull over bays that cater for this once it has been proven that the driver is indeed tired but needs to get somewhere before they can rest up.

At least it would help with the court backlogs.

Vote 1 for Nun

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

I always try to drive when I'm tired, as I like to be refreshed when I reach my destination.

There is an assumption that being tired equates to a lack of attention, whereas mostly one drives in a state of inattention with a little gland called the amygdala, ready to fire when danger arises.

My doctor agreed today when I asked him.

I would be more likely to ban all drivers of Pious' and Camry's if I had my way, and also make those little fat bastards who are picked up by mothers in 4 wheel drives , walk home after school in a convoy led by a teacher, dropping them off the convoy as they reach home.

Festinate lente.

There are enough silly laws as it is.

gg

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

nunthewiser said:

how about giving out medicinal amphetimines to drowsy drivers....

could have like "driver reviver" pull over bays that cater for this once it has been proven that the driver is indeed tired but needs to get somewhere before they can rest up.

At least it would help with the court backlogs.

Vote 1 for Nun

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Got my vote, where is the nearest "pull over bay"?

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

nunthewiser said:

how about giving out medicinal amphetimines to drowsy drivers....

could have like "driver reviver" pull over bays that cater for this once it has been proven that the driver is indeed tired but needs to get somewhere before they can rest up.

At least it would help with the court backlogs.

Vote 1 for Nun

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weeeee, I'll vote for ya Nun.

Can they be PBS subsidised too? And do we also get PBS subsidised downers for when you arrive at your destination?

P.S. I heard somewhere that US fighter pilots are given uppers to keep them wired...

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

sptrawler said:

Try working a 12hr night shift and see if you drive home tired. Maybe we should live at work then that would overcome the problem.

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Lol, +1, I recommend the japan-style "sleeping hole" in your office, so you can cut the time between sleeping and working (the so called 'fun time' or 'family time') to about 20 minutes per day . Of course, you are expected to keep your sleep to a minimum .

Regarding 'driving while tired becoming a criminal offense", this will become "not carrying an epi-pen with you whilst driving becoming a criminal offense". Being drunk whilst driving can be easily detected and is impossible to counteract. Being tired, is the opposite.

Re: Do you think driving while tired should become a criminal offence?

Garpal Gumnut said:

Festinate lente.

There are enough silly laws as it is.

gg

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It's Snake Pliskin said:

It seems Orwellian.

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My sentiments exactly.

I also agree with the notion that there are too many silly laws. There is already a law against driving without due care and attention. So what is driving while tired/fatigued!

But maybe to change some of the existing misinformed, silly and abused laws we need to promote something more equitable in a "Festinate lente" fashion ...along the lines of protesting the overly long "School Zone" speed restrictions and the adverse affect on traffic flow has caused some reconsideration of those times.

How can anyone judge the level of fatigue in a person?

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There are existing medical tests that can (at least help) determine various levels of fatigue, eg for Cronic Fatigue Syndrome, dehydration, even malnutrition. But these are largely specific to each of us individually and our relative history.

I'm curious to see what becomes the dominant factor or constellation of factors in determining fatigue. I'm not happy with the Drunk driving single criteria of .05 blood level of alcohol. I've seen plenty of cases where a person with .08 or more of alcohol with a 'rational' mindset and stable behavioural history (even under the influence, ie non agressive) is far more alert and focused on the job at hand than another person who is more agressive and less skilled without any alcohol in the system.

I suppose the test will involve some sort of reflex test. But even reflex various widely and is not necessairly indicative of safe stable driving... just a quick reflex that often causes accidents by over reacting, especially if not previously focused on the job.

For me (safe) driving abaility involves firstly the state of being conscious, condition/type of the vehicle, and skill. For me all factors need to be considered, but as we have seen with Drunk driving legislation an equitable singular criteria of blood alcohol level is the determining factor that the police consider, so it's possible that our governments may adopt another singular test for fatigue.

But, fatigue is also very relative to individuals, eg a marathon runner has a much stronger than natural capacity to work through long periods of fatigue and make sound decisions to get to where he/she needs to go, the finish line.

There is physical and mental fatigue. A small woman is much physically weaker than a large man, but likely can drive just as far or further than the man. A mentally stressed out working mother probably can't drive as safely as a happy-go-lucky, financially independant retiree.

Drowsiness is not fatigue, but the need to sleep may accompany fatigue. That being the case the misnamed Fatigue Test ought to be focused on drowsiness. But the same issue of individual tolerance arises. I for example have never fallen asleep while driving, on the contrary I have since been diagonised with conditions that require me to prepare for a period of sleep. While I suffer fron fatigue, I don't easily fall to sleep. On the other hand I know and have driven with people who claim to be perfectly healthy, but fall asleep at the wheel in a flash. I have had to grab the wheel and wake them a few times.

At the end of the day any new laws in this regard will probably be little more than new ways of Revenue Raising by police for the Gov. I suspect technology will eventually provide vehicle devices that will detect when a driver is not alert at the wheel.

There is technology that in the future, will allow a vehicle to navigate a highway by GPS and detect other vehicles, there speed etc. I recall there was a device invented years ago that some truckies used, like a mat that fitted oner the back and headrest of a seat and detected when the drivers head and body slumped forward like falling asleep and made some sort of noise to wake you up. Don't know what became of that. I'd be much happier if some improvement of this was mandated to vehicles to have a much higher chance of wakeing tired drivers before they crashed.

I've long observed that a large portion of the population seems to be tired at any given time. Workplaces, shopping centres, on the bus etc. Look around and usually there are plenty of tired people around.

I'd say that probably 80% of the population could do with a bit more sleep...

But realistically, how do we stop people doing things like driving whilst tired?

I've seen people who have worked 12 or even 16 hour shifts far more alert than some who have just started work. So it's not something that can be regulated through things like restricting working hours.