Second stimulus package discussion

MrBurns · 16 February 2009

juw177 said:
America, UK, Japan, every failed economic policy so far has been expanded upon. Billions become trillions. Why would Rudd do different? The December stimulus had no effect? Raise the stakes!

It looks to me that not just Australia but the entire planet will go into liquidation at the hands of the 21st Century "experts"

prawn_86 · 16 February 2009

MrBurns said:
It looks to me that not just Australia but the entire planet will go into liquidation at the hands of the 21st Century "experts"

I have discussed this with my old man in length, and i came to the conclusion that everyone will be so far in 'debt' that the IMF etc will just write off everyones debt, or knock a sh1teload of zeros off, and effectively begin again without too much trouble etc (obviously a stock market meltdown, but no apocalyptic scenario)

Beej · 16 February 2009

MrBurns said:
It looks to me that not just Australia but the entire planet will go into liquidation at the hands of the 21st Century "experts"

You are MASSIVELY overstating the potential problem - probably been listening to Turnbull's emotive comments too much! "think of the kiddies and the grand kiddies".... - what a load of BS. I thought he was doing an OK job until this line started coming out the other day.

$50B of public debt = ~$2.5k/person in Australia.... *yawn*..... Hardly going to send us all bankrupt, into liquidation etc etc. It will all be paid back after a few years of decent economic growth and then we will be back into surplus.

Plus due to past surpluses the Commonwealth has nearly $100B sitting around in "savings" anyway.....

And that's without even arguing whether (or not) that money over-all will have a net positive impact on our national wealth if it happens to be successful in providing some true economic stimulus.

Cheers,

Beej

MrBurns · 16 February 2009

Beej said:
You are MASSIVELY overstating the potential problem - probably been listening to Turnbull's emotive comments too much! "think of the kiddies and the grand kiddies".... - what a load of BS. I thought he was doing an OK job until this line started coming out the other day.

$50B of public debt = ~$2k/person in Australia.... *yawn*..... Hardly going to send us all bankrupt, into liquidation etc etc. It will all be paid back after a few years of decent economic growth and then we will be back into surplus.

Plus due to past surpluses the Commonwealth as nearly $100B sitting around in "savings" anyway.....

And that's without even arguing whether (or not) that money over-all will might have a net positive impact on our national wealth if it happens to be successful in providing some true economic stimulus.

Cheers,

Beej

I dont take $50B lightly and neither should anyone else.

I think you've got your head in the sand beej,

It will all be paid back after a few years of decent economic growth and then we will be back into surplus

Well lets not even think about it it's no problem just a drop in the bucket !

Passing debt to future generations on the whim of a grandstanding poseur makes me a little angry and I dont think Turnbull is understating it one bit.

Where do you think the growth will come from that you treat so lightly as a given ? Japan has already sunk a Trillion in and they're still going backwards, do you think KRudd will stop here when this lasts about a couple of months ? No he'll keep doing it to ingratiate himself to the bludgers that wait by the letter box then take it to the Tab or Harvey Norman, easy way to buy votes from the uneducated masses.

Beej · 16 February 2009

MrBurns said:
I dont take $50B lightly and neither should anyone else.

I think you've got your head in the sand beej,

Well lets not even think about it it's no problem just a drop in the bucket !

Passing debt to future generations on the whim of a grandstanding poseur makes me a little angry and I dont think Turnbull is understating it one bit.

Where do you think the growth will come from that you treat so lightly as a given ? Japan has already sunk a Trillion in and they're still going backwards, do you think KRudd will stop here when this lasts about a couple of months ? No he'll keep doing it to ingratiate himself to the bludgers that wait by the letter box then take it to the Tab or Harvey Norman, easy way to buy votes from the uneducated masses.

Tell you what - if you are so certain about all this, grab a seat on the RBA board, and get a job consulting to the IMF - then I'll take your emotive and clearly politically biased views seriously. Economic growth is going to return - we are not Japan, their problems are quite unique and mostly of their own making.

The Australian government has run on debt for most of the past 100 years - We have had a good run over the past 10 years with surplus after surplus due to both some decent management of the budget by the previous government, and some good luck re the amount of economic growth and the mining boom providing windfall tax revenues. Going into deficit to the tune of a very small proportion of our GDP (less than 2%) in order to help cushion the impact of a slowing global economy on our local economy is a prudent and sensible move.

I don't particularly agree with the cash payments, but I don't see it as the end of the world either. Personally I'd like to see ALL the money spent on serious infrastructure (not just capital works) - like interstate highways, railways, ports, world class university facilities etc etc. The problem is these projects take a long time to get going, whereas halls for schools and fixing local roads etc can be started straight away, and this is the intention right now. Plus you can't always get everything you want!

Cheers,

Beej

MrBurns · 16 February 2009

Beej said:
I don't particularly agree with the cash payments, but I don't see it as the end of the world either. Personally I'd like to see ALL the money spent on serious infrastructure (not just capital works) - like interstate highways, railways, ports, world class university facilities etc etc. But you can't always get everything you want!

Cheers,

Beej

A friend of mines husband is on the RBA board but that doesnt help me.

I agree on how the money should be spent, there's a few jobs going in Victoria to get infrastructure back in place and build some community buildings for a start, throwing billions in cash to the masses is just plain bull****.
Economic valndalism.

BTW I'm a swinging voter and call it as it is regardless of the party.

and at some stage you do get emotive because the decisions being made on our behalf are just wrong sometimes and it's frustrating.

Calliope · 16 February 2009

MrBurns said:
Passing debt to future generations on the whim of a grandstanding poseur makes me a little angry and I dont think Turnbull is understating it one bit.

Where do you think the growth will come from that you treat so lightly as a given ? Japan has already sunk a Trillion in and they're still going backwards, do you think KRudd will stop here when this lasts about a couple of months ? No he'll keep doing it to ingratiate himself to the bludgers that wait by the letter box then take it to the Tab or Harvey Norman, easy way to buy votes from the uneducated masses.

I have it on good authority that Mr Rudd is diverting some of the infrastructure money towards building bigger and better printing presses at the mint. Another initiative will be the provision of a wheel barrow to every family. This barrow was originally only going to working families, but it was realised they will probably be in a minority.

Glen48 · 16 February 2009

To the best of my knowledge Howard sold Telstra to pay for the Public servants supper which Krudd has now doled out also Japan would have to be the best country in manufacturing yet they are still in trouble so is the answer rocks and crops and get out of debt that way???

drsmith · 16 February 2009

One way the government will be able to delay public servants collecting on their supper will be to increase the minimum retirement age at which they can claim.

This has been done once allready in the early 1990's for public servants born after about 1960.

Prospector · 16 February 2009

drsmith said:
One way the government will be able to delay public servants collecting on their supper will be to increase the minimum retirement age at which they can claim.

Maybe we should make them sing

juw177 · 16 February 2009

Beej said:
$50B of public debt = ~$2.5k/person in Australia.... *yawn*..... Hardly going to send us all bankrupt, into liquidation etc etc. It will all be paid back after a few years of decent economic growth and then we will be back into surplus.

Plus due to past surpluses the Commonwealth has nearly $100B sitting around in "savings" anyway.....

And that's without even arguing whether (or not) that money over-all will have a net positive impact on our national wealth if it happens to be successful in providing some true economic stimulus.

Cheers,

Beej

Beej, I don't think you have any understanding of debt to GDP ratio, compound interest... or mathematics for that matter.

Debt to GDP ratio has risen exponentially in the previous years, and continues to do so as the government stimulates the economy and guarentees bank debt etc.

Debt is based on the expectation that our GDP will be able to service it. Interest on the debt compounds.

Unless someone is out there to lend an unlimited amount of money at zero interest rate, this will correct itself at some point.

Calliope · 16 February 2009

Prospector said:
Maybe we should make them sing

Especially the politicians. And I think their suppers should be reduced considerably, considering it is sedentary work.

MrBurns · 16 February 2009

Calliope said:
Especially the politicians. And I think their suppers should be reduced considerably, considering it is sedentary work.

Perhaps we should go communist, who could be leader ?..........besides Rudd of course

drsmith · 16 February 2009

Prospector said:
Maybe we should make them sing

One thing they will be singing is the virtues of increasing excise on cigarettes.

Glen48 · 16 February 2009

Smoking that's discussing !!!!

Julia · 16 February 2009

Beej said:
.

Plus due to past surpluses the Commonwealth has nearly $100B sitting around in "savings" anyway.....

Can you explain this, Beej? Where is this $100B and where has it come from?
First I've heard of it.

noirua · 16 February 2009

I wonder if this second stimulus package is nearly enough. Talk in the UK of a third package there totalling the equivalent of AU$220 billion. Germany are now sinking at the fastest rate in Europe and may do an about turn and follow the the stimulus route to support their ailing industry in the East.
Many now have their eyes on the encroaching Alt-a disaster in America, and the waves that will build up on the shores of those who bought the mortgage packages.

Aussie Banks have not really addressed their massive write down problems, though there are some signs of selling stocks and they may be trying to dress their balance sheets whilst they can.

Glen48 · 16 February 2009

Why can't the Poms get it right..maybe if Krudd gave lessons we could survive the depression:
UK govt loan guarantee scheme not working it appears that the [UK] govt's Gbp 1 bn guarantee scheme for small businesses is failing to trigger a surge in lending by banks, according to analysis by The Times. Indeed, the newspaper reports that only Gbp12 mn has been lent to companies with business organisations attacking the 'trickle' of funding from the banks. The findings follow last week's survey by the Federation of Small Businesses (FSB) that only 8% of businesses were benefitting from the govt guarantee scheme. The FSB revelations are also in complete contrast to claims made by PM Brown in the Commons last week when he said that 60k businesses had 'already benefited' from state initiatives to help cope with the credit crunch - the large figure apparently only refers to a scheme to help businesses defer tax payment, according to the Forum of Private Business.
From GFT

hotbmw · 17 February 2009

Stimulus package question

Hey guys

The package that was passed last week, did it still include a 30% rebate to small business owners who spent money on business related equipment?
I own a small online website and i want to buy a camcorder to video record my products and add a small review clip on the site. Do you think im safe as this being part of the 30% rebate applicable to me?

Thank you in advance
Rob

MrBurns · 17 February 2009

On the ABC last night Lateline -

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2493046.htm

No transcript up yes but he says that tax cuts are the way to go, throwing cash away has been proven to be not as effective.

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