Saturday's Popcorn Discussion

[Sean K]

opcorn:

This weeks topic is brought to you by Julia.


"Do we have an obligation to justify our existence in this life?"

i.e. should we feel morally the need to contribute to our communities in whatever way we are most able?


There's a few ways at looking at this I suppose.

Are we talking about the meaning of life, and justifying our existance?
Do we need to make an altruistic contribution to our community to be a responsible citizen? Or, is there any such thing as pure altruism and it's all about ME?
If I have lots of money, or an unique and valuable skill, do I have to give more back to the commutiy than anyone else?

Thoughts?


Thanks Julia!

 

[saiter]

I think therefore I am?

 

[wayneL]

I think therefore I am?

I think, therefore I am depressed.

 

[Sean K]

I think, therefore I am depressed.

Is that Lau Tzu?

 

[Julia]

I think, therefore I am depressed.

Maybe you're depressed because of your current sybaritic lifestyle?!
Conflict with your basic ascetic nature?
(just kidding of course)

 

[Julia]

I think what I was musing about when suggesting this topic came from the discussion on the other thread about religion being the basis for people attempting to help others.

Having a conviction that religion is not necessarily involved at all, the question arises as to why we do engage in these apparently altruistic endeavours. I said 'apparently' because I really don't believe that pure altruism really exists. Don't we all do whatever we do for the 'pay-off'?

So, if I do various things which may make a useful contribution to the community I don't believe for a millisecond that I am only doing it for this reason. I might experience a range of 'pay-offs' or rewards for whatever I do and I guess if these weren't sufficient to balance the effort and/or discomfort of the voluntary role, then I would simply stop doing it.

I'd be interested to know if anyone feels otherwise, and if so, can you cite some examples of pure altruism?

And then there are all the people to whom the notion of doing anything for nothing just wouldn't occur to them. No time, and no interest.

It would be good to get some input from these people too.

 

[chops_a_must]

Well, incidentally you justify your existence to your self and others by striving to achieve, and proving your worth.

It's not really the same as justifying your own existence in an academic sense though I guess. But I'm not sure if the topic starter was meaning it in that sense.

I see no reason why you can't make a contribution to society and community while doing something you love at the same time. It doesn't have to be something major either - so to not contribute to community in any way takes some effort, or even a deliberate negating attitude towards it.

Most people will and do in the ordinary course of there lives, perhaps without even realising.

 

[tech/a]

Julia.

I must admit that the older I get the more selfish---unto my self I become.
I can only CONTROL my own actions. I can guide and in some cases influence others. But ultimately their and my own actions are our own making.

I now have the rule in life to only offer help in guidance and at times assistance when asked directly (Other than forums!). I dont have the time or inclination to be a "do gooder".
I avoid those who wont help themselves like the plague---my brother being one of these people. Twice I was asked and twice I gave him the blue print to follow and still today he holds the shovel and digs deeper! There are many out there who exist on their own self pity. It IS their way of life.

To me my contribution to the society as a whole is to live my own life in a manner which is self sufficient. Sure I too ask for help and dont take it for granted that it is given freely.
The biggest reward for those giving help is to see a positive outcome for those who seek it--In my own opinion that is!---It is for me.

I can and do look after my own lot--in doing so I'm not a drain on others, and my time can be best spent on self improvement which selfishly is all I'm interested in. I have (I believe) one shot at life---I can waste it or choose to LIVE it.
When my time comes if I have time to reflect I want to be able to say I gave it all in every aspect of life.
Man I'm loving it!

 

[Fleeta]

I think that you can justify your existence by enriching the lives of those people that you know. I was once told in a networking seminar that the key is that when you finish a coversation with somebody that they are happier than when you started the conversation. Not always easy in my line of work, but something I try to appy.

In terms of doing something for nothing, there is always someone less fortunate that you and always someone more fortunate than you. Quite often it is a fruitless exercise to try to change that. You can protect the sheep from the wolves, but you can't protect the sheep from themselves!

 

[Speewha]

Hello,

A lot of people have the attitude I can look after myself, I am completely self sufficient. These people also say I do not need to make any contribution to society.
Will these people hold this to be true when
Their house is burning down and the CFA turns up
Their roof has blown off in a storm in the middle of the night and the SES turns up

Will they say go away I look can after myself.

The instinct to render assistance to others is what has helped the upright sneaky ape to survive and become the dominant species on planet Earth. How far do you think we as a species would of come without joint efforts and sharing of the spoils with the tribe. There would be a lot of Woolly Mammoths running around and not many of us.

No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. John Dunne 1572 to 1631



Regards

 

[Julia]

I was once told in a networking seminar that the key is that when you finish a coversation with somebody that they are happier than when you started the conversation.

This is an interesting approach. I'll start thinking about my conversations and reflect on them with that in mind.

In terms of doing something for nothing, there is always someone less fortunate that you and always someone more fortunate than you. Quite often it is a fruitless exercise to try to change that. You can protect the sheep from the wolves, but you can't protect the sheep from themselves!

I guess that's true but couldn't you equally apply the principle in the first paragraph above to actions with people also?

 

[Julia]

I see no reason why you can't make a contribution to society and community while doing something you love at the same time.

This is what I was thinking when suggesting altruism almost always has the alternate face of personal pleasure or satisfaction, even if just to bolster self esteem.

 

[nioka]

The me me me attitude to life seems to lessen with the years. We are only here for an instant in time. It is acceptable in my eyes for someone to do most things early in life to establish their own wellbeing as a priority but not at the expense of others where it can be avoided. Once that stage has been reached it is time to look at the bigger picture.

Some people need help, some you can't help and others can be worse off if you do help them. You can't help everyone but everyone can help someone.

I doubt if the "street people" are there by choice. I doubt if those people that die without being found for weeks chose to end their days like that. I doubt that those needing meals on wheels expected to get to that stage.

There are benefits to the giver as well as the receiver. Most people I know that work in voluntary organisations get benefits from the social side which make the job satisfying. I remember as a teenager my life revolved around the local surf club. It was the social hub for those my age. The fact that we saved a life or two was a very small part of the business.

So folks, loosen up a little. Enjoy the ride and you'll enjoy it more if you can help someone else enjoy a little of it with you.

Thinking now about the greatest achievment of my life I would say "pulling a girl out of a swimming hole at Ballarat when she was drowning". It was no big deal, she evidently couldn't swim, I could. There was no one else around that could. At least I can say that is one useful thing I have done. Gave me a lot of satisfaction.

 

[2020hindsight]

Then there's the idea of "selfish altruism" - as preached by Walter Dickman..

This is a repeat of a previous post.
But Walter Dickman is one great motivator.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/for...man#post156561

I’m reminded of a talk by of a positive thinker I heard once, and my guess is that a few of you may have heard him - Walter Dickman. Must've been 20 years ago - but I still remember what he said.
He said heaps, all about positive thinking etc.
Two things I remember are :-

“If you see a small branch or a rock in the road that is causing traffic difficulties, and it’s relatively easy for you to stop and fix it, do you do so Y/N - he says yes.
But the interesting thing is WHY you should do it. He says, Not for the other drivers, Not for points in Heaven whatever, but Simply for your own self image. He effectively turns it into a selfish act, that you jealously guard you own image of yourself as sacrosanct. I found that intersesting lol. Maybe you had to be there.

The second thing I remember was an endless loop he proposed - we all have massive “reserves” of latent abilities which generally go to the grave with us unused - his proposal then , Release your Latent Abilities (RLA), Get “Job Well Done” feedback, Release more LA, etc loops etc.

Here's his website (you have to disclose an email address to enter, but I believe I can vouch for his integrity
http://www.positivepath.net/walterdickman.asp
http://www.nationalspeakers.asn.au/NSW_news.html National Speakers of Australia


Here's one for the romantics out there ...
just think of yourself as an onion lol... http://www.positivepath.net/ideasCJ9.asp

Emotional Layers - The Onion Principle
By Chris Joscelyne
Some people are like a raw egg. They have a hard outer exterior, but once their shell is cracked or broken by a stranger, a workmate, a friend, a family member, or by a romantic partner, they start to fall apart.

Some people are like a jelly. They are soft, squishy and easily devoured. They have no emotional barriers and they are easily manipulated and used by others.

Some people are like an onion. Onions thrive emotionally because they have emotional layers and they know who can be allowed access to each layer … when, and under what circumstances.

Onions understand their layers and how much of their emotional selves they can reveal and share with others, without the risk of deep emotional hurt. This protects them, while allowing them to reveal and share their emotional layers in safety as they choose.

The Onion Principle

Layer 1 is the outer layer with smooth protective skin. Outside this layer is the world at large including the people we meet, do business with, work with, and with whom we have social contact.

Layer 2 is the first inner layer. This is for friends, pals and others we know and like.

Layer 3 is the next inner layer. This is for close family members, and close friends we know and trust.

Layer 4 is for romantic, trusting friendship (boyfriend/girlfriend)

Layer 5 is for embarking on a loving long-term relationship

Layer 6 is for the children if the onion is a parent

Layer 7 is for a total partnership of love and commitment

Layer 8 is the innermost layer (the place where your "inner child" lives). It is your most personal, private inner emotional space.

It is important to understand that an onion does not practice universal mistrust of others. That’s unhealthy. An onion is simply a discerning person who knows that emotional layers are precious, and should only be revealed and shared when empathy, trust and understanding have reached a point where it’s safe to go to the next layer with another person. etc

 

[Sean K]

I don't believe there is any such thing as altruism, which most people don't like. Humans like to think they are different and can do things for their own sake, not as benefit to themselves. Even jumping in front of bus to save your child is ultimately only in aid of your own well being.

 

[2020hindsight]

I don't believe there is any such thing as altruism, which most people don't like. Humans like to think they are different and can do things for their own sake, not as benefit to themselves. Even jumping in front of bus to save your child is ultimately only in aid of your own well being.

Kennas - I would reply that it's nonsense to say that altruism is (and always was?) dead.

Try this 0ne for instance:-

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/03/s...nade_blast_survives_thanks_to_backpack-2.html

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23458590-1702,00.html