Informative. You know lots about it. I am open minded to him being guilty though.
Informative. You know lots about it. I am open minded to him being guilty though.I look at it like this. Say there's a teacher at your local primary school. You hear from your neighbour that he's touched up her son. The next week, you hear from your cousin that the same teacher molested her son. And the next day, you hear from a former student, who's now an adult, who tells you the same teacher molested him when he was a kid.
Your son tells you that he's been invited over to this teacher's house for 1-on-1, special tuition. Do you let him go?
I'd hope your answer would be no. Pedophiles have patterns of behaviour. Rarely do they offend only once. It's the corroborating testimonies from independent people that gives you all the evidence you need.
In the case of George Pell, there are numerous, similar sounding stories from multiple sources. The forced sex with the choirboys he's been convicted of in Melbourne. The indecent grabbing of genitals in the swimming pool at Ballarat. The interest he's shown in the change rooms to make sure boys dry their genitals while he watched. The incident incident in Torquay where he stood naked in a change room in from of young boys for a lengthy period of time, and had to be told by Les Tyack, "I know what you're doing George. Clear out or I'll report this to the police."
We as non jurors, are allowed to weigh up all the independent evidence, the eerily similar stories from different parts of the state. You can form your personal opinion on that. In a court of law, the restrictions of what can be considered are extremely different. Very relevant evidence can be stricken, just because the judge said so. Other similar cases and testimonies can't be considered. The verdict could be overturned on appeal due to a technicality. And that's just how our legal system works. And that makes sense if the outcome is to imprison someone, you need extreme rigor in the process.
But as a member of the public who isn't a juror, you should consider the wider evidence you have available. Pedophiles have a track record supported by the testimonies of their victims. If you still conclude that George did nothing, then by all means, let your son go over to the teacher's house for 1-on-1, special tuition.
Just to add Pell actually came around not too long ago. He snuck in , they were saying, this tall man, to get away from the media. The new guy, Comensoli , was also here not too long ago.
This discussion is a bit like the evolution thing. You got people that would believe if they felt the evidence was better. I imagine though that many Catholics do believe he is guilty since it's natural to believe what you've been told.
I look at it like this. Say there's a teacher at your local primary school. You hear from your neighbour that he's touched up her son. The next week, you hear from your cousin that the same teacher molested her son. And the next day, you hear from a former student, who's now an adult, who tells you the same teacher molested him when he was a kid.
Your son tells you that he's been invited over to this teacher's house for 1-on-1, special tuition. Do you let him go?
I'd hope your answer would be no. Pedophiles have patterns of behaviour. Rarely do they offend only once. It's the corroborating testimonies from independent people that gives you all the evidence you need.
In the case of George Pell, there are numerous, similar sounding stories from multiple sources. The forced sex with the choirboys he's been convicted of in Melbourne. The indecent grabbing of genitals in the swimming pool at Ballarat. The interest he's shown in the change rooms to make sure boys dry their genitals while he watched. The incident incident in Torquay where he stood naked in a change room in from of young boys for a lengthy period of time, and had to be told by Les Tyack, "I know what you're doing George. Clear out or I'll report this to the police."
We as non jurors, are allowed to weigh up all the independent evidence, the eerily similar stories from different parts of the state. You can form your personal opinion on that. In a court of law, the restrictions of what can be considered are extremely different. Very relevant evidence can be stricken, just because the judge said so. Other similar cases and testimonies can't be considered. The verdict could be overturned on appeal due to a technicality. And that's just how our legal system works. And that makes sense if the outcome is to imprison someone, you need extreme rigor in the process.
But as a member of the public who isn't a juror, you should consider the wider evidence you have available. Pedophiles have a track record supported by the testimonies of their victims. If you still conclude that George did nothing, then by all means, let your son go over to the teacher's house for 1-on-1, special tuition.
More fallout from the Royal Commission into child sexual abuse.
Be very interesting to see where this led.
Survivors of church abuse speak out about mafia-style intimidation tactics
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04...speak-out-about-intimidation-tactics/11041506
it looks pretty suss to me. beneath the lines the Church figures seem to be saying that they can't find any solid evidence against him.I know that Pell has been convicted of a crime, and yet I still don't know whether or not he is actually guilty, of the crime, of which he has been convicted.
What I do know, (provided the media has reported matters comprehensively and accurately), is that Victorians are no longer protected by the presumption of innocence.
The outcome of this appeal has only served to compound my loss of confidence in the Victorian legal system.
I ask those celebrating the verdict, and subsequent appeal dismissal, to ask themselves how they would feel, if personally brought to trial, and convicted, solely on the basis of the uncorroborated testimony of a solitary complainant or plaintiff!
he Church figures seem to be saying that they can't find any solid evidence against him.
What am I to make of this?!!Cynic I would suggest almost every old case of child sex abuse by cleric or scout master or whoever ended up largely as the testimony of the victim versus the accused. Very unlikely to be physical evidence. Generally no one else in the room. That is just the way of rape/abuse.
No! Only two, out of the three, judges presiding over the appeal, ruled for dismissal.Courts around the world have had many, many cases of these horrendous acts that what were previously "unthinkable" and therefore "unbelievable". Unfortunately they have almost all proven true. We have discovered how depraved some adults can be when given the opportunity to take out their sexual interests on children who, becasue they are children, won't be believed.
Cardinal Pell was convicted because the jury found the complaint a totally credible witness. Over 30 hours of interviews they decided he was telling the truth. That in fact George Pell had behaved the way he as alleged.
George had the best legal defence money could buy. He exercised all his legal rights He was then found guilty and now the appeal judges still accept there was no miscarriage of justice.
From your response, it would seem that you do not have a problem with the possibility of being:This is the statement from the surviving victim. Maybe this tells us they type of person who finally went to the police.
I am relieved at the decision of the Court of Appeal.
It is four years since I reported to the police. The criminal process has been stressful.
The journey has taken me to places that, in my darkest moments, I feared I could not return from. The justice machine rolls on with all of its processes and punditry, almost forgetting about the people at the heart of the matter.
Despite this, I appreciate that the criminal process afforded Pell every opportunity to challenge the charges and to be heard.
I am glad he had the best legal representation money can buy. There are a lot of checks and balances in the criminal justice system and the appeal process is one of them.
I just hope that it is all over now.
Some commentators have suggested that I reported to the police somehow for my own personal gain.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
I have risked my privacy, my health, my wellbeing, my family.
I have not instructed any solicitor in relation to a claim for compensation. This is not about money and never has been.
Some commentators have suggested that I am somehow out to cause damage to the Catholic Church. I'm not on a mission to do anybody any harm. Although my faith has taken a battering it is still a part of my life, and part of the lives of my loved ones.
I am not an advocate. You wouldn't know my name. I am not a champion for the cause of sexual abuse survivors, although I am glad those advocates are out there. But that is not my path.
After attending the funeral of my childhood friend, the other choirboy, I felt a responsibility to come forward. I knew he had been in a dark place. I was in a dark place. I gave a statement to the police because I was thinking of him and his family.
I felt I should say what I saw and what happened to me. I had experienced something terrible as a child, something that marked my life. I wanted at least some good to come of it.
I would like to acknowledge my friend who passed away, the other choirboy, and pay my deep respect to him and to his family. I would like to acknowledge the courage of those people who reported to the police. For one reason or another, your cases were not advanced. My heart goes out to all of you.
I would like to acknowledge the Victoria Police and the Office Public Prosecutions. I am grateful for the steady hand of His Honour Chief Judge Kidd in guiding the trial and his compassionate, balanced and fair sentencing.
In February, due to other cases not going ahead, I ended up in the spotlight alone. The suppression order was to be lifted and I suddenly found myself at the centre of worldwide media interest.
I asked Viv Waller to help me manage the considerable media interest in the case and to protect my identity and my family.
I could not afford legal representation but that did not matter to her. I will be forever grateful that Viv agreed to help me and to do so for free. She has liaised with the media on my behalf. She has allowed the storms of public opinion to buffet her so that my young family could find safe harbour.
My journey has not been an easy one. It has been all the more stressful because the case involved a high-profile figure. I thank the media for respecting my privacy and for continuing to protect my identity.
I need to be able to define myself away from all of this. Recently I have started a new chapter in my life as a father. The experiences I have been through have helped me understand what is truly important.
I am grateful for a legal system that everyone can believe in, where everybody is equal before the law and no one is above the law
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08...ng-victim-reacts-to-appeal-dismissal/11434894
...brought to trial, and convicted, solely on the basis of the uncorroborated testimony of a solitary complainant or plaintiff!
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