Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
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- 2 January 2006
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I
I have to say something here;
I offer absolutely no defence for those you mention. And shine upon them every aspect of inquiry and due response.
In regard Pell; Accusations of offences by him directly on others, is now before the court.
The much bigger tradgity is that the institution of the Catholic church has protected 'Historically' deeds by offenders under their control so heinous and protracted and then facilitated the further ghastly and evil perversions to be perpetrated by those in their employ; And then persecuted to the grave individuals damaged by the arrogant high handed and dismissive attitude of an institution that assumed itself to be above the law; The injured souls in their hundreds and thousands.
Pell embodies the ethos of this god awful institution, irregardless of the outcome of the ruling that awaits of the above mention accusations.
The pithy blatherings of some in the News Corp press that attempt to argue this as a distraction to Victoria's presumed current crime trouble, seem completly unable to quantify the magnitude this multi generation national disaster perpetrated against the most vulnerable.
By the last census results Jews and Muslims make up about a combined %4 percent of the Australian population. Catholics make up over a quarter ... Just hold that as a metric. And the damage is done.
Pell sounded pretty perky at his press conference.
Either:
1. he's bluffing.
2. he's really innocent and thinks he can prove it.
3. he has a lot of confidence in his lawyers paid for no doubt by the bottomless Vatican pit.
4. he thinks he can drag it out indefinitely untill the prosecution gives up.
5. he know's it's a matter of his word against someone else and no one can prove anything either way.
6. he will suddenly get 'very ill' and claim persecution of an old sick man.
Mate,
You have no idea about how the Vatican works.
It's a state, like the USA or Australia.
Plus he has the presumption of innocence as an a Australian.
He has agreed to come back to face the allegations.
If so, due process will be followed.
Uninformed comment is prejudicial to a fair trial.
gg
Please note my point 2. It could well be that he is actually innocent and is the victim of a beat up. We shall see.
And what does the status of the Vatican have to do with it ?
My guess is that George Pell and any legal counsel is well aware of these issues and are acting accordingly. In that sense the complete and total denial or any culpability is part of a process to make this trial one of the most difficult ever mounted.
“But a fair trial can’t be now. Let due process prevail not Christian hate
Due process but not now ?
How do people like this become journalists ?
saying his charges have been drummed up by Victoria police as a distraction from a supposed crime epidemic in that state.
Devine said on Twitter that the media was pre-judging Pell and said he could not possibly get a fair trial.
“Victoria police chief Graham Ashton desperate for a distraction from the crime epidemic he’s incapable of stopping #HuntingCatholics,” Devine said.
“How would you like to be labelled a pedophile,” she asked. “Pell is supposed to be charged with exactly what I don’t know.
Perhaps she should preface her opinion by declaring her Catholicism, I'm sure she'd expect the same transparency.
Do you think she's doing her best to create an atmosphere where a fair trial is impossible ? ie deliberatlly trying to influence a potential jury in Pell's favour rather than just being incompetent ?
Do you think she's doing her best to create an atmosphere where a fair trial is impossible ? ie deliberatlly trying to influence a potential jury in Pell's favour rather than just being incompetent ?
It would be interesting to know just how far she could go without being in contempt.
Cardinal George Pell is indeed entitled to a presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a properly constituted court of law. (God that all sounds so old fashioned in 2017 )
Indeed amongst the strongest advocates for such a principled view are writers in the News Ltd Press ( unless of course they are banging on that no fair trial will be possible because of the media witch hunt against Cardinal Pell.).
First Dog On the Moon has produced his own masterly reminder of just how principled News Ltd has been in its approach to other people in conflict situations. Enjoy it. As always Priceless.
Cardinal Pell is entitled to the presumption of innocence. Unlike some people
First Dog on the Moon
According to News Corp everyone is entitled to the presumption of innocence unless they are not
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...e-presumption-of-innocence-unlike-some-people
Yes, we can see what Melbourne is like, McLovin.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/freedom-of-speech-and-protest.31657/page-6
In a depraved and disturbing statement by the Archdiocese of Milwaukee, a high-ranking cleric from the Catholic Church, he claimed that pedophilia is granted by God for priests. The vile comment was made by Cardinal Timothy Dolan after being found to have transferred church finances into a trust to keep them from being sued for clergy child abuse.
The Catholic Archdiocese of Milwaukee kept $55 million dollars in church funds from lawsuits started by victims of priestly sexual abuse, and transferred the money to a separate trust to take care of the archdiocese's cemeteries and mausoleums, stated a letter by Timothy Dolan, the then-Archbishop of Milwaukee. When victims came forward to seek compensation in a bankruptcy proceeding, the archdiocese made claims that their ability to sexually molest children is a right of religious liberty and that no money should be compensated to victims of clergy child sex abuse.
Church and State finds the allegations against the Archdiocese in Milwaukee to be shocking and it involved 45 priests that had been accused of molesting around 200 deaf boys. Think Progress reports that the $55 million from the bankruptcy proceedings went into a trust for mausoleums and cemeteries. They then used their religious freedom as a defense against victims. It worked when a court ruled that religious freedom ensured their right to not compensate the victims in 2013. The first court was overruled by the Seventh Circuit Court, yet it doesn’t imply that victims will be compensated, but an appeal will follow.
The church states the money is needed to fund mausoleums and cemeteries, and if they have to compensate victims, their obligations to service the deceased will be unfulfilled. Religious freedom has become quite an issue after the archdiocese says it had a Canonical obligation to “properly maintain in perpetuity” the mausoleums and cemeteries that rely on funding from the trust. If victims of sexual abuse and creditors are compensated, the archdiocese states, “there will be no funds or, at best, insufficient funds, for the perpetual care of the Milwaukee Catholic Cemeteries,” therefore the archdiocese claims it won’t be able to complete its religious obligation.
With the rejection of this claim that the archdiocese having the religious right to transfer trust funds on burial places and only there, the 7th Circuit explained many reasons why religious freedom can’t over sway the rights of victims of clergy sex abuse and the archdiocese’s creditors. The court ruled the archdiocese’s claim for religious liberty would fail under constitutional scrutiny.
The court ruled churches do not have the right to be exempt from paying taxes into Social Security, and that public interest can replace religious freedom: Drawing a comparison to a Supreme Court decision holding that religious objectors may not opt out of Social Security taxes, the court notes that federal bankruptcy law, like Social Security, “serves the public interest by providing a comprehensive … system with a variety of benefits available to all participants’ nationwide.”
Just as Social Security “aids those who have reached a certain age or are disabled, the Code aids those who have reached a certain financial condition and who need assistance repaying or recovering a debt.”
It was warned by the court that if this becomes a precedent, there will be no way to predict where it will end up. Anyone at any time can join or create a cult to “gain economic advantage” or businesses can rely on their religious beliefs, no matter what the case, to violate or discriminate laws in ways the Catholic Church has justified pedophilia.
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