Road Safety and First Aid for Xmas

[2020hindsight]

Sorry if this is a bit "left field" ...but (I'll try to approach this from a different tac)

Somehow we HAVE to start changing the mindset of drivers. (especially
a) people running red lights where high speed becomes a problem
b) young P platers - running into trees half the time !! sheesh -
c) highway driving - falling to sleep etc

and also the generally low percentage of first aiders out there in the community to help during those first few critical minutes.

A few thoughts....

1. Give the Ambulance Drivers a Break this Xmas.
Personally I hate the ads that are currently run on the TV in the windup to Xmas.
But... think of it this way.. we all KNOW that the resources of tha ambulances - and also the hospitals - are stretched! Only a few teams carry the "Jaws of Life" (whether Ambulance or Fire Brigade or Police) - only a handful in Sydney !! you could count em on two hands. IF you have a bad accident - then you may not get help for HOURS! - literally. It comes back to fact vs hope !! The poor bludy ambulance drivers just cant be everywhere - especially at Xmas.

SO.....This Xmas give THEM a break !!!

2. Another one ... I did St Johns Ambulance about 30 years ago lol - even given mouth to mouth on a couple of occasions - THESE days , I'm told you should CHECK to see if the victim has Hepatitis. !!! It's possible (if not common) for good samaritans to have their lives shortened after giving first aid. These days I'm told you can get small sachels that click onto your keyring - contain a one-way airflow "mask" - (not much bigger than a condom lol - so instead of two condoms - substitute one of them for one of these - available from St John's Im told)

So consider carrying :-
a) small powder fire extinguisher and blanket, and
b) a one way mask for first aid in "questionable" circumstances
c) a first aid kit with bandages etc - even snakebite etc

The average success rate for mouth to mouth when ambulance get involved is just a couple of percent !!! and even then the person may die after a month or so. It's SO important that someone gets involved in those first crucial minutes.

Oops, looks like I just talked myself into doing a refresher course. eg I'm told by my ambulance driving mate that the ratio for concurrent CPR / mouth-to-mouth is now about 30-2 (used to be about 5-1 as I recall ) . New thinking is to get the blood flowing etc - So many "recent re-thinks" on all this stuff.

PS I'd love someone to set me on the right track with latest thinking , etc.

 

[Smurf1976]

Most important thing when driving is to actually think about what you're doing both in terms of your own vehicle and others around you. A few points...

1. It's not a wise move to pull in front of a truck before a red light. The truck driver has left a big gap between the truck and the car in front for a good reason. So don't fill that gap trying to save a few seconds when the light turns green.

2. Even in smaller places such a Hobart, an incredible amount of problems arise when motorists block intersections because they can't fit into the block ahead. In short, it queues traffic in the intersecting street and leaves traffic controllers (those tinkering with the signal timing from a control room) little choice but to give LESS time to the street you're in so as to fix the problem. Everyone gets delayed and it's a real hazard for pedestrians when your car is stuck in the middle of an intersection and they need to cross.

3. Giving way when you shouldn't causes lots of accidents. I've seen plenty... DON'T give way to the right when you're supposed to be merging. Just merge at normal speed.

4. Forget the road rage. Someone is in the right hand lane on the highway doing 50 in a 100 zone? They're breaking the law but that's no reason for you to tailgate and cause an accident. Police enforce the law, not you, so just use another lane and overtake. If you feel the need, pull back in front of them (at a safe distance) and put the left indicator on - most will take the hint and move over to the left lane.

5. City streets are not a race track. Every couple of years we seem to get one of those horror smashes where some clown does 150 through the centre of town on a Friday night and ends up hitting another car which in turn hits the light poles, post box etc beside the road and the whole lot ends up at the next intersection as a mangled wreck. There's simply no excuse for doing 150 in the centre of town, or anywhere else other than a race track for that matter, in the first place. So don't do it.

6. Ever wondered why you never hear about some of the victims from the big smashes? You know, some die and you hear about them but there's usually one or two more that you never hear any more about. Bottom line is that the reason you hear nothing is because they are still on unconscious on life support and I know of cases of this going on for years. That could be you or someone you know. Be careful...

7. If you want to eat hamburgers, smoke cigarettes, eat ice creams, read newspapers or whatever then that's your business. But it's anything but OK when you're driving. You're fooling nobody but yourself if you think you can actually control the car in an emergency with your hands full with any one of these things.

8. What's the rush to be home on a Friday afternoon? Spending your weekend with a smashed car, or worse still in hospital, won't be fun. So just drive sensibly on the way home.

9. Ever noticed what happens to the race driver one car in front of you? You catch up with them 10 km later. At best, they will be home, at work or whatever no more than 2 minutes before the rest of us and probably no more than 10 seconds earlier. Now, if you're late for work then most bosses aren't going to be too concerned whether that's 10 minutes late or 9 minutes 50 seconds late. They will, however, be decidedly unimpressed if you turn up 2 hours late because you smashed the car and then tell them you can't work certain hours until the car is fixed. Even worse if they get a call from your family about you being in hospital. Late? Just drive normally because nothing you do will get you there much faster unless you really do drive a fire truck (in which case sirens and flashing lights do help get others out of the way).

10. With all the fuss about petrol prices, wars in the Middle East and global warming you can easily do something to help by just driving sensibly. Save petrol and you might save a life too - possibly YOUR life.

As for the ambulance drivers this holiday season, spare a thought too for the hospital staff, police, tow truck drivers, council workers, traffic signal technicians, power utility workers and others who would rather be doing anything other than cleaning up the mess from yet another totally unnecessary accident.

I say that as someone who has more than once been called out in the middle of the night and had to wait for the police to finish taking photos then the fire brigade to hose down the body bits, brains etc (they do use disinfectant). It ain't fun and we ALL PAY for this stupidity one way or another.

 

[2020hindsight]

Gee Smurf - that's a comprehensive post m8 ...and .... graphic.

MICROSLEEPS
I wish that that old chestnut "when you feel yourself getting tired, just pull up and have a coffee etc" was questioned more!! and not pushed on the TV ads. It's ridiculous imho. - Don't know about you, but as SOON as I feel the SLIGHTEST bit tired, I stop !! and have a "power nap" there and then!! If I'm with the family, then I might swap driving with one of them - If by myself, I just lock the windows and have a shuteye for 5-10 mins. So what if I get a ticket! (My guess is that you're not supposed to stop and sleep by the roadside - but I'd happily take that up with a judge wearing a wig rather than one wearing wings and a grey beard!! - gotta better chance of a favourable outcome with the first lol)

PEDESTRIANS - especially tourists.
Another thing of course - pedestrians !!
I saw a fatal accident once - a pedestrian looking the wrong way when he stepped onto the road. Bit like the African athlete - Nigerian I think - who was killed just before the Sydney Olympics because he was used to the traffic being on the other side. Since then, whenever I see a pedestrian crossing in front ofme I screech to a halt and let him get off the road asap.

And if you go overseas , be real careful. Sheesh, I took family to USA, was driving out of a gas station and pulled into the left lane - looked up - phewww - Soooo close to a head on with two lanes of traffic bearing down on me and only feet in it before I managed to swerve onto the footpath. XXX sidewalk.

KIDS WITH BICYCLES
And kids who got bicycles for Xmas !! OBViously they are gonna be unsteady on their new "feet"!!! Give em space. plenty of it.

RECOMMENDATIONS FOR A CAR FIRST AID KIT
I just thought of something else I should've said...
What would you recommend for an ideal first aid kit? Best Commercially available ones maybe ? or do it yourself? or a combination of both?

Bandages - enough for snakebite? how many? how long? triangular bandages etc, ointments, disinfectants, antiseptics, cotton wool, elastoplast etc.

 

[rub92me]

Do you guys know what the liability is for a Good Samaritan in Australia? Say, I witness a traffic accident, rush over to help, do my best in re-starting the heart, pounce a bit too hard on the ribcage and kill the victim? Can I get sued by the victim's family for trying to save a life if I'm not a certified first-aider or doctor? Or even despite that?

 

[Knobby22]

Do you guys know what the liability is for a Good Samaritan in Australia? Say, I witness a traffic accident, rush over to help, do my best in re-starting the heart, pounce a bit too hard on the ribcage and kill the victim? Can I get sued by the victim's family for trying to save a life if I'm not a certified first-aider or doctor? Or even despite that?

No! Like any other civilised country, even the US, you will not, even if you do something stupid like move the victim. It is your duty to not think like a cowardly lawyer trying to convince you to buy insurance. If you see a rape you should ring the police and intervene if reasonable. If you see a mugging likewise. It is this sort of attitude that destroys society. We should always try to do our best by each other. And if you have not done so in the past you cannot try to remove your guilt by saying you were scared of being sued.

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/roundabouts_guide.pdf
Here's a quiz - and (assuming I have read this correctly) an example of a stupid road rule. How many would say that the bicyclist in this picture had right of way over a car that was going straight ahead but in the "fast" lane , i.e. so that he crossed the path of the cyclist.

a) for a pushbike (they imply ok to cross right across two lanes!!)
b) for a motorcycle. ( of course could not do so)

These are NSW rules only, maybe not applicable to other states -
BUT this is CRAZY!!.
Any kid on a pushbike who tries this is not going to make it to his teens !!
Get off your bike kids, and be a pedestrian for a couple of minutes !!

PS If you scroll down the page - you'll see that cars go straight through on "both barrells" !!

 

[2020hindsight]

Here's another crazy suggestion from the RTA in my opinion (for motorcycles this time).

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/downloads/mrh_october2000.pdf
page 24 clearly implies (and I agree!) that you should take a curve on the inside of the curve - you would be crazy imho to take a curve on a motorbike on the outside of the curve - hit some gravel ? no where to go but into the bush!!!

Yet this says to take the curve wide? (for the rider going left to right), and the curvature also seems to be increased with this path through the curve.- sheesh.
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/motorcyclesafety/breakinghabits/badhabits_cornering.html

To me this is crazy!
I'd prefer to tell riders to take curves on inside, and slow down a bit. - At least they can have an escape route (i.e. go to left hand side if necessary, i.e. if some crazy car driver comes over your side) that doesnt involve going off the sealed surface

PS and drive with your headlight on !!

 

[constable]

Do you guys know what the liability is for a Good Samaritan in Australia? Say, I witness a traffic accident, rush over to help, do my best in re-starting the heart, pounce a bit too hard on the ribcage and kill the victim? Can I get sued by the victim's family for trying to save a life if I'm not a certified first-aider or doctor? Or even despite that?

Ive heard of doing a risk assesment when you get to the scene but im not sure a capital assesment is also necessary!

 

[stoxclimber]

Do you guys know what the liability is for a Good Samaritan in Australia? Say, I witness a traffic accident, rush over to help, do my best in re-starting the heart, pounce a bit too hard on the ribcage and kill the victim? Can I get sued by the victim's family for trying to save a life if I'm not a certified first-aider or doctor? Or even despite that?

Depends on your state. In New South Wales, there's a provision in the Civil Liability Act 2002 (NSW) - i think it might be part 9? It's titled "good samaritans".
Victoria has a similar aspect to their civil liability legislation, and I'm not sure about the other states.

 

[2020hindsight]

As for exacerbating the situation, I'm sure that's a high probability - specially if you've forgotten most of your first aid course.
You have to be old enough to make really tough decisions too. Someone said the St John's blokes used to give a very brief course to the boy scouts ) - then they'd summarise ...."TWO THINGS -
1. If you come across an accident, ring 000 and do nothing!!, and
2. This is the rectal thermometer, THIs is the oral, - and try not to get them mixed up!!! "

PS as for culpability - gotta feeling that doctors who volunteer their services are more vulnerable that plebs. Not sure about nurses - but I've heard nurses say that it's a risk. Personally I dont know.
I do know that Structural Engineers who say "that outhouse looks ok" - and then it falls down, are liable to get caught with their legal pants down.

Victims and their families can be desperate for cash - and hence for scapegoats. If someone (eg a doctor) has professional insurance behind them, then I guess they see that as a pile of money that should be "thoroughly checked out". The new rules for Worker's Comp in NSW allegedly limit payout for total disability to $11K - (so I heard on the ABC this morning). - sounds incredible I know. Not sure about limits on third party (green slip) insurance.

 

[2020hindsight]

gee wouldn't it be great if EVERYONE drove REALLY defensively this Xmas - avoid all these tricky questions for a start lol.

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b06RJvph2VY

And do as these Turtles do - GET OFF THE ROAD if you want to play!
PS I blame my son's sens of humour for finding this one

Another :- probably also on Noirua's snake thread :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73pVFc0J3qw

NEVER bite off more than you can chew. To be thread specific I guess that should be
NEVER DRIVE WHEN YOU'RE FULL

PS You can click the small icon in the lower right corner to get "full screen" view. (I believe it's correct and hasnt been reversed - like there's goo on the pig's foot!) yuk
Lol - reminds me of my uncle ( a real bushy) we caught a carpet snake had got into the chicken coop and swallowed one - so couldn't get out through the wire netting - So - he killed the snake - and .. Guess what we had for dinner lol - marinated chicken!

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.usyd.edu.au/anaes/venom/snakebite.html
(I pinched this from Noirua's snake thread.)
http://www.avru.org/
Incidentally, I just rang the Aust Venom Reserach Unit - Uni of Melb..(it's Sunday) - to test the "24/7" nature of this service.

and THE RECORDED VOICE suggested "for emergencies, contact our medical emergency teams on 03 9483 8204 - Maybe put this into your mobile phone.
I just rang them - he's a doctor on duty and like everyone else having his Sunday lunch. but kindly agreed to have a chat - BUT nevertheless, he is happy to assist IF it's an EMERGENCY.
He welcomed my comment that I am also encouraging people to get a first aid kit with bandages.

He also mentioned that there are typically 2-4 deaths annually Australia wide, mainly Qld, NSW, and WA ( in that order I suspect).
A few in Vic SA and NT.
Stranglely Jumper ants are a bigger risk in Tasmania !!! ( and more deaths there from Tasmanian jumper ants than from the ants in other states ). (?)
Especially if you might get asthma etc.

I mentioned I had a relative killed by a taipan, followed it into long grass - He replied that people have become more wary of snakes over the years - and "dont go looking for them" under logs, in long grass, etc.

http://www.usyd.edu.au/anaes/venom/snakebite.html
FIRST AID FOR SNAKE BITES:-
1. Do NOT wash the area of the bite! It is extremely important to retain traces of venom for use with venom identification kits!

2. Stop lymphatic spread - bandage firmly, splint and immobilise!

The "pressure-immobilisation" technique is currently recommended by the Australian Resuscitation Council, the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons and the Australian and New Zealand College of Anaesthetists.

The lymphatic system is responsible for systemic spread of most venoms. This can be reduced by the application of a firm bandage (as firm as you would put on a sprained ankle) over a folded pad placed over the bitten area. While firm, it should not be so tight that it stops blood flow to the limb or to congests the veins. Start bandaging directly over the bitten area, ensuing that the pressure over the bite is firm and even. If you have enough bandage you can extend towards more central parts of the body, to delay spread of any venom that has already started to move centrally. A pressure dressing should be applied even if the bite is on the victims trunk or torso.

Immobility is best attained by application of a splint or sling, using a bandage or whatever to hand to absolutely minimise all limb movement, reassurance and immobilisation (eg, putting the patient on a stretcher). Where possible, bring transportation to the patient (rather then vice versa). Don't allow the victim to walk or move a limb. Walking should be prevented.

The pressure-immobilisation approach is simple, safe and will not cause iatrogenic tissue damage (ie, from incision, injection, freezing or arterial torniquets - all of which are ineffective).

See the AVRU site for more details of bandaging techniques.
http://www.avru.org/health/health_pib.html

Bites to the head, neck, and back are a special problem - firm pressure should be applied locally if possible.

Removal of the bandage will be associated with rapid systemic spread. Hence ALWAYS wait until the patient is in a fully-equipped medical treatment area before bandage removal is attempted.

Do NOT cut or excise the area or apply an arterial torniquet! Both these measures are ineffective and may make the situation worse.

Joris Wijnker's Snakebite Productions has more information on envenomation and he can supply a suitable first aid kit and booklet.
http://www.snakebite-firstaid.com/snakekit.html


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Medical Management of Snake Bites

Only 1 in 20 snake bites require active emergency treatment or the administration of antivenom. Medical management depends on the degree of systemic envenomation and the type of venom.

See also the AVRU site for more info on clincial assessment and management.

Critically ill patients

Maintain immobilisation, splint and bandage until the situation is under control!
Support airway, breathing and circulation.


Intubate and ventilate with 100% Oxygen if airway or respiration fail.
Give antivenom immediately (See below for details). Intravenous adrenaline should be given only for lifethreatening hypotension or anaphylaxis - its use has been associated with cerebral haemorrhage.
Volume expansion may be necessary.
Severe coagulation disturbances, electrolyte abnormalities, and muscle damage leading to acute renal failure are likely.
Repeat antivenom as clinically indicated.
General management as for less seriously ill patients as well (see below).
Less seriously ill patients - no signs of systemic spread

Admit to ICU for non-invasive monitoring, strict bedrest and full head injury observations (wake hourly).
Leave bandages in place.
Obtain appropriate antivenoms and venom detection kit.
Obtain intravenous access.
Take blood for group and X-match, coagulation screen (including fibrinogen levels, and tests for DIC), full blood count, electrolytes and calcium, creatinine kinase and arterial blood gases. Perform ECG. Repeat at appropriate intervals.
Collect urine for microscopy to detect haematuria and for free protein, haemoglobin and myoglobin measurement. Record urine output. Freeze the first sample for venom detection.
Draw up adrenaline, antihistamine, and steroids in case of anaphylaxis to antivenom.
When ready, cut a hole over the wound site, inspect and take swabs for use with the venom detection kit.
Once the results of the venom detection kit are known, slowly and progressively remove the bandages. Don't rush!
If systemic symptoms ensue:

Re-apply bandages and give antivenom as clinically indicated.
Ensure the patient is well hydrated (to reduce the risk of acute renal failure due to rhabdomyolysis).
Repeat blood tests, ECG, etc at clinically relevant intervals.
Correct abnormal coagulation; look out for disseminated intravascular coagulation (heparin probably contra-indicated in DIC from snake bite).
Analgesia and sedation - be cautious.
Correct hypotension, if present, with volume expansion and vasopressors (exclude occult bleeding).
Watch for development of renal failure - monitor urine output and composition.
Tetanus prohylaxis is recommended.
Usually, if there are no signs of envenomation four hours after removal of the bandages, and if repeat blood tests taken at that time are normal, then it is probable that significant envenomation has not occurred. If laboratory tests are not available, 12 to 24 hours is a reasonable period of observation.

Recovery is usually complete, though the patient usually develops a sensitivity to equine immunoglobulin.

If the patient develops serum sickness (see below), the severity is reduced by steroid administration (eg. prednisolone 1mg/kg every 8 hours) until resolution occurs. A course of steroids is recommended in all patients who receive polyvalent antivenoms.

 

[wabbit]

If I ruled the World...

If I ruled the world:

1. It would be compulsory for learner drivers in the process of training for their drivers licence to attend First Aid training. Ever been to a car accident site and seen the gawkers standing around, screaming "somebody help him/her!" This rule applies to every time you want to renew your licence too... compulsory refresher training in providing basic first aid to save someone else's life, or even their own. Maybe a bit later, this could be extended to basic firefighting techniques using first aid appliances. (Fire extinguishers are all around us, but how many people know how to use them effectively? Safely?)

(Although not mandatory, many years ago, I was invited as part of a group to view the autopsy of a road accident victim. Every time I go even a km or two over the speed limit, I see that person lying on the steel table with the massive fracture across his forehead where he impacted the steering wheel, the blood pool at the front of the brain and the extended eyes... I slow down immediately. Graphic? Yes. Effective? Yes. Seeing these so-called graphic shock tactic ads on television is nothing like seeing the real thing.)

2. Parents would be required to attend First Aid training BEFORE the birth of their child and before the birth of any subsequent children (refresher training). How many children die in homes where the parents have no first aid training? I don't know the numbers, but any more than zero is too many.

3. All high school children will be required to attain the Royal Life Saving Society Bronze Medallion/Cross or equivalent , for water confidence, swimming, first aid and resuscitation else they cannot graduate. No graduation, no university, no job etc. Instead of teaching kids about how its their right to receive this and that, teach the kids to give the basic needs that might save someone's life.

People who object to gaining these basic skills to save their own life, the life of their children or other loved ones, or the life of a complete stranger ought to have their 'societal' rights revoked; no voting, no driving a motor vehicle, no medicare cover, no dole, no social security, none of the rewards of being a member of society.

Harsh? Yes. But is it that difficult? No. A few moments to learn what to do and what not to do in the event of an accident, choking, drowning, snake bite, burn, cut, fracture, shock, dehydration, hypothermia, hyperthermia, snake bite, spider bite, jellyfish sting etc The life they save may be their own?


I have done my basic firefighting, standing by for flames!

 

[2020hindsight]

wabbit you're a genius (but that's questionable praise comin from an idiot lol) . the sort of lateral thinking that the world needs - would save heaps of lives! adios amigo. happy trading folks

 

[RichKid]

Do you guys know what the liability is for a Good Samaritan in Australia? Say, I witness a traffic accident, rush over to help, do my best in re-starting the heart, pounce a bit too hard on the ribcage and kill the victim? Can I get sued by the victim's family for trying to save a life if I'm not a certified first-aider or doctor? Or even despite that?

This is a obviously a relevant and very important question but please be aware that you will need professional legal advice. While helpful members may express their views, these views should not be construed as legal advice.

My personal impulse is to help whenever I can, I hate to think that I'd be thinking of my personal civil liability instead of instinctively trying to help a fellow human being in need. Not all situations are clear cut though and sometimes we may mean well but might end up aggravating injuries if we don't know what we're doing, hence the encouragement in this thread to acquire some important medical skills.

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/roundabouts_guide.pdf
Here's a quiz - and (assuming I have read this correctly) an example of a stupid road rule. How many would say that the bicyclist in this picture had right of way over a car that was going straight ahead but in the "fast" lane , i.e. so that he crossed the path of the cyclist.

a) for a pushbike (they imply ok to cross right across two lanes!!)
b) for a motorcycle. ( of course could not do so)

These are NSW rules only, maybe not applicable to other states -
BUT this is CRAZY!!.
Any kid on a pushbike who tries this is not going to make it to his teens !!
Get off your bike kids, and be a pedestrian for a couple of minutes !!

PS If you scroll down the page - you'll see that cars go straight through on "both barrells" !!

The sketch below shows what I was trying to say. (you'll hav to clik on the pdf attachment)

Here also an extract from an email I sent to the RTA.

Gentlemen, I am enclosing a sketch - re Road Rule 111 which exempts cyclists (and horses) from having to approach roundabouts in the right hand lane if they are turning more than half way round the roundabout.

In my humble opinion, (and assuming I understand it correctly) the following sketch in your ROUNDABOUT flier is extremely dangerous.

This is the sketch of a cyclist – who is allowed to go around the outside of the roundabout. The text reads:- “Remember that unlike cars, they are permitted to turn right from the left lane”. !!!!

I have superimposed a car which is also within its rights in going straight ahead.

1. Hence who would be wrong if there was a hypothetical accident under these circumstances ?

Or if you’d prefer to just explain it better without making any such hypothetical ruling...
2. Is the cyclist allowed to follow this dotted route irrespective of traffic in the inside lane?
3. if yes, then this is crazy imho – the child wouldn’t make it more than twice !!
4. if no, then do you agree that it is at least ambiguous? – and hence this ambiguity is enough to request it be changed? or explained better?
5. obviously a motorcyclist would not be allowed to do so. (?)
6. I understand a rider on a horse can also follow the cyclist’s wide-arced route?

I believe the sketch should say “ this is clearly a suicidal thing to do – cyclists should dismount and negotiate such multi-lane roundabout as pedestrians”.

Bottomline is - this sketch is misleading, and whether or not the Road Rule ends up being "sound", this publication is "unsound" imho.
(You 'll have to click on the pdf attachment to see what I'm talking about

 

[2020hindsight]

Rolling over an injured person. Motorcyclists helmets. Person slumped over wheel. etc
The enclosed notes from RTA website refer.
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/motorcyclesafety/breakinghabits/badhabits_firstaid.html

My mate (who knows a fair bit about these things) maintains it takes three (trained) people to roll someone over without risk or exacerbating neck etc injuries. Obviously judgement required on a case-by-case basis. and the lesser evil etc. (sheesh - as if any untrained mug can be trusted with this stuff!!)

Also if someone is slumped forward, then lifting their head (again - with the above provisos) will help permit easier breathing .

Note that the RTA photo shows motorcyclist being attended to - (they make up 10% of casualties!). Note also that they say that his helmet should be left on - yet they show it as off !!? - perhaps they would argue that he DID have blocked airway (?) - but again I think that the photo is misleading.

BTW, there is another handout where the RTA only show the photo - WITHOUT the note " dont remove helmet" etc.

BTW also - my friend says it takes at least two trained people to take a helmet off with some semblance of safety and consideration for the persons neck and spine

PS - you could accuse me of pedantry perhaps - but
a) any discussion of this topic will help,
b) and lives are at stake.

By the way - I obviously emphasise that I am not an expert!! - do the course folks. - like I plan to do next year - (and join the ranks of "trained" people to which I refer above. And maybe this thread will get you to think of some of the factors it through before you are required to attend to a victim.

PS also - there was a song posted on the song lyrics thread "an ambulance can only drive so fast !!" - that's where I'm coming from - AVOID the whole accident thing - by which I mean drive safely.

PPS I had no intention of putting myself up as an expert - was hoping that the experts would put their hands up -

 

[2020hindsight]

Snake bite bandage :- First Aid kit Item
best is apparently a 5m long x 75mm wide crepe bandage. (also come in 3m - maybe one of them as well).
Start at the bite (soak up any surface venom in that end bit for later ID of the snake) - then to the shoulder, then to fingertips .
Must IMMOBILISE to the next joint - any movement will pump the blood. Maybe consider adding a splint as well on top of the first bandage (?)

 

[2020hindsight]

..Here also an extract from an email I sent to the RTA.
Bottomline is - this sketch is misleading, and whether or not the Road Rule ends up being "sound", this publication is "unsound" imho.

RTA have responded - in the "fine print (page 78?) of the rulebook - that no-one looks at.... it says that the cylist, whist permitted to cross the lanes, must not get in the way of any cars !!!. PROBLEM remains - the handout flier available for people to pick up and read at the RTA just says that the cylist "unlike cars" can cross lanes - and cars should do the watching out! (?) whatever - don't want to make a big thing of it - just for everyone to remember that
a) one roundabout can keep three panelbeaters in business, and
b) let's remember that kids get bikesw for Xmas , and that kid up ahead maybe doesn't know the rules yet.