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Richard Dawkins - right or wrong?

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The last bit first: you write "correct" in response to part of one of my sentences - "I just can't see". It would be good if you could explain what you mean. Are you suggesting that because I don't agree with you I am failing to see God - or something?????

Re repentance: totally disagree that to realise one has done something wrong or wronged someone, some other medium e.g. a church/religion, is necessary before an appropriate apology can be made. Why?
Seeing we are - on another thread - into running over dogs and/or possums, if I run over your dog/possum and then realise that I have done something which will hurt you (not to mention the poor deceased animal), then I hardly need to ask God or a church if I should express my sorrow and regret for so doing.
 
Rafa
I'll reply to your post "later"
but in the meantime, here's a discussion he has with the local bishop - he has no problems with reasonable people. And he argues forcefully with the unreasonable ones - but does not use force.
His main concern I believe is with the bible belt in USA, where free-thinking agnostics, atheists etc are ostracized ... almost meet "underground" for fear of losing jobs etc. But I'll try to find some youtubes to that effect ( unless someone beats me to it).

Richard Dawkins and the Bishop of Oxford (2 of 4)
 
No worries... i never suggested he used force, mainly musing on what might happen in the future...

As for that bible belt... that scares the life out of me too...

Whenever one group believe they are right and everyone else is wrong, its a recipe for persecution and ostracization... but forget about athiests in the bible belt, all religions were persecuted under communist eastern europe, catholics have been persecuted by protestants, Shias by sunni's, christians in most gulf muslim countries, etc, etc all on the basis of belief... there has also been plenty of persecution and ostracization on more 'real' things like race, color, language, sexuality, weight, wealth, etc...

that's simply human nature...

PS: Good line from the Bishop to Dawking: I think maybe you spend too long in fundametal circles... I think 2020, if you look beyond the fundametalists dogma's and consider the messages that most global religions in the 21st century preach there ain't too much difference... (tolerance, fogiveness, etc) certainly not enough to warrant the abolition of all religions!
 
Rafa said:
... there has also been plenty of persecution and ostracization on more 'real' things like race, color, language, sex, weight, wealth, etc...
Click to expand...
all good points

and as you say - just because there has been persecution because of sex, - doesn't warrant the abolition of sex!

maybe just the abolition of noisy sex lol - well - noisy sex by missionaries lol
 
this is the sort of dishonest nonsense that Dawkins has had to put up with from creationists - AND (see last youtube) deceptive dishonest Aussies no less !!

a desperate endeavour to cover his cowardly tracks
Click to expand...
Richard Dawkins stumped by creationists' question (RAW FTGE)

The following is the claim ( by creationists - it is deceptive, dishonest and a cheap shot)

damned if I know what this JJjayco is trying to prove here - he admits there are such possibilities for mutations etc - (even says that creation and evolution are equally probable or words to that effect ??) yet finds fault with Dawkins ( who incidentally was granting an informal interview under false pretenses in his own home - - see last youtube )

11 second Pause Dawkins 'stumped' hoax videos exposed again!

Re: Richard Dawkins Stumped (Actual Footage! NOT A HOAX!)

Dawkins Stumped? Let me answer!

Re: Dawkins Stumped? Let me answer!
 
Just this minute watched an article on CNN where the people of Georgia are on the steps of parliament praying for rain. Hundreds of people there, asking for God to provide rain. All of them praying with all their might, for rain. If they pray hard and long enough, surely, rain will come. God will privide for those that pray long and hard enough, and who are faithful, and therefore, will be blessed....

Let's not consider anything else for the provision of H2O, let's just pray!



 
kennas... strange comment from you....
prayers do actually work, if you believe.

it may be to do with god, it maybe to do with harnessing the remaining 90% of the human brain... but coming together and praying as a group does powerfull things.

the problem now a days, its just so hard to let go... of anything
 
hehe, nice one 2020....

what really got me was when Johnny Howard, whose actions are anything but Christian, tried to get everyone to pray for rain in Oz!

to clarify what i meant to say above kennas... praying in a group may or may not cause rain, but it will certainly give you the strength to cope with the lack of it.

i keep going back to the point that as far as logic / science goes, thats barely 10% of our brain capacity...

people have been assuming that the more that expands, the more logical and scientifically advanced we might get... but, it may also mean we progress in other ways. Could prayer actually touch on those other areas in our brains that science and logic cannot?
 

Hi Rafa, the notion that humans only use 10% of our brain is a myth.

For simple tasks such as eating, walking, or reading, we may only use a small part of our brain. Over the course of the day however, just about all the brain is used at one time or another.
 
Rafa and Spooly
I'd agree with both of you
prayer = just a form of meditation as far as I'm concerned,
and I'd also bet that both/either uses parts of our brain we are not otherwise aware of...
gets the brain to relax and we end up with a heap of positive (drug free ) endorphins instead of a heap of stress (imo)

I guess my point is that some people meditate with ...
* the word "one" repeated (plus concentrate on breathing)
* ditto (plus heartbeat as well)
* the word "ummmm" repeated plus ditto
* some yoga position and mantra
* some maharishi-given personalised mantra repeated (if you can afford it)
* "lord god hear my prayer" etc
* "the lord is my shepherd"
* (heck counting sheep for that matter )
* "peace to all" ditto etc

if you get my drift. (i.e. the god-connection is optional imo)

And I fully admit some people are stronger in themselves for them being religious. (eg I have quoted the difficulty in brain washing the Moslems in the Korean war many times).

Just that I also agree with Dawkins that, (paraphrasing I hope correctly) if religion gets 'fanatical' - (yet to be defined - I'd probably say "whenever one person thinks he can lecture another that something totally unproven exists, or wants political clout or similar to go with such completely unfounded conjecture") you suddenly have a major problem. (imo)
 
Is this Saudi culture or Islam which is the issue?

Another situation perhaps to paste on Dawkins religion is evil list.

Quite incredible this happens in the 21st century.


Effectively, this women has got 200 lashes and six months in jail, for 'being alone with a male who is not a relative'.

The woman, who is married, and an unrelated man were abducted and raped by a group of seven men more than a year ago. The male victim was also given an increased sentence of 200 lashes and six months in prison.

The man and woman were attacked after they met so she could retrieve an old photograph of herself from him, according to al-Lahim.





Not sure what happened to the blokes.
 
Yes, Kennas, and on another thread we are all really busy complaining about what is wrong with our democratic system!
 
hi kennas
When you say "Is this Saudi culture or Islam which is the issue?", I'd say that the culture and the religion are one and the same. Likewise US bible belt.

Do they feed on each other?
does extremism beget extremism?

plenty of Dawkins youtubes on this - must try to post an appropriate one (later) - unless someone beats me too it.

PS why a woman would voluntarily join (extreme) Islam I'm damned if I know. Can't help it if you're born into it of course, (but that goes for most of us ending up in the religion we end up in)
 
2020hindsight said:
hi kennas
When you say "Is this Saudi culture or Islam which is the issue?", I'd say that the culture and the religion are one and the same. Likewise US bible belt.

Do they feed on each other?
does extremism beget extremism?
Click to expand...
It's say it's 500AD culture, set in stone by Islam (The Koran)

They need another Profit to write an updated version, how Christianity has moved on, although not far enough yet.
 
lol...
"And the wise Prophets came from the east
and they said
the profits are moving westward"

PS Must be fascinating living in Peru there kennas - wouldn't it have been great to have been a fly on the wall when the Spanish Conquistadors met the Incas
 
Yet more delightfully reasonable discussion with Richard Dawkins

James Randi and Richard Dawkins in 2005
Randi and Dawkins discuss the perinormal and paranormal. This is only a brief clip of the conversation from the Amazing Meeting (January 2005) put on by the James Randi Educational Foundation.
Click to expand...

"atheists for Jesus"

"theories on homeopathy" - is there a robust phenomenon there ?? (other than elusive / evasive - does it depend on the weather, or whether there are any skeptics present etc"

"perinormal" - close to normal??
http://www.bj21.com/boards/free/free_board/index.cgi?noframes;read=145652
 
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