Religion preying on our youth

Space Cadet said:

If you are using contraception then yes, I believe you are as well.

The intent, and we can go around in circles ad-infinitum on this one as well, behind having sex in marriage apart from giving your spouse love and pleasure should be to leave open the possibility of producing a new life every time and I am sure that you know there are times when the probability of a woman becoming pregnant is at a maximum and a minimum, so IMO that eliminates the need for contraception.

So imo, according to most churches teachings I think you'll find that couples are free to have sex during marriage whenever they like without it being a sin as long as they leave open the possibility of producing human life by limiting their sexual activities to the times during the which the probability of a woman becoming pregnant best suits their plans.

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Without meaning any disrespect to the poster, I'm astonished to find this view expressed in 2006!

Julia

Rafa said:

your beginning to sound like a certain mufti.... blaming the wives again, but this time, for turning to pornography!!!

Whats next.....???

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Ah, yes, Rafa. But even worse, what about the wives who may enjoy a bit of pr0n themselves???

Julia

Space Cadet said:

and I am sure that you know there are times when the probability of a woman becoming pregnant is at a maximum and a minimum, so IMO that eliminates the need for contraception.

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Shhesh - and I thought gambling on the ASX was frought with danger !!
Cadet - lets say you have a 5% chance of getting it wrong - so after 10 years you have , well several extra kids that you didnt expect? (the only thing saving you from a complete disaster is the fact the the missus wont fall pregnant twice in the same 9 months!).

This is lunacy man. Just because rubbers (and pills etc etc) weren't invented when JC was a virile young man doesnt mean to say they are a sin!!

Do you think the disciples knew that the world was round for instance?

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/jesus-christ-superstar/the-last-supper.html
"Always hoped that I'd be an apostle
Knew that I would make it if I tried
Then when we retire we can write the gospels
So they'll still talk about us when we've died".

PS let's not even talk about the thousands dying of AIDS throughout the third world because some idiot in Rome ( no names no pack drill) tells these poor unfortunates that it's a sin! (In the event of gettin AIDS please contact our complaints dept in the Vatican .....ring ring ..... ring ring....."we appreciate your call, and one of our operators will be with you asap" - "hello - yes well the bad news - you've got AIDS, but the good news is...fanfare....drum roll.... you will go to HEAVEN because you didnt use a condom... yeahhh")

Julia said:

Ah, yes, Rafa. But even worse, what about the wives who may enjoy a bit of pr0n themselves???

Julia

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Gotta love that stereotype that women never watch pr0n. When even if they freely express that there are girls that are promiscuous, actually choose to go into adult industry and show off that they watch pr0n. Society sees it as a male only domain.

Just wondering who here believes that donations actually help third world countries or who here believes that donations hinder the growth or goes around the actual problem (such as going around politics such as how there are talks/reports on how the African ministry destroy businesses with bulldozers simply cause they are making a pretty good wage and that business is growing).

Julia said:

Without meaning any disrespect to the poster, I'm astonished to find this view expressed in 2006!

Julia

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Why would you be so astonished that this view is expressed in 2006?

After all, hasn't it been at least the Catholic Church's view since day 1?

And yes, I'm sure there are a number of Catholics who don't accept this view but as far as I can tell the greater majority do.

weird said:

Kennas,

Just curious, which team do you bat for, if you know what I mean ?

I understand why homosexuals would have issues with the teachings of Christianity and the Church.

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Weird question weird.

Does it actually matter?

Are you homophobic, prejudice, scared, of the evil poofs?

I'm hetrosexual buddy, but there's nothing wrong with that!

I have a question:

Is Space Cadet and Bullmarket in disguise?

2020hindsight

There have been numerous cases where couples have conceived children even though they used contraception at the time. So contraception is not 100% fail safe.

So the options open to a couple who had an unplanned child while not using contraception are the same as those open to a couple who did use contraception and still were "unlucky" to conceive a child.

JoshyJ said:

and Christian principles, came from Jewish principles.

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well, don't think there is much similarity between christian and jewish principles at all, besides the one God bit...

If that were the case, Jesus wouldn't have been hung! Sure, there may be some rituals and garments that are common, but don't get confused between rituals and principles.

Julia said:

Ah, yes, Rafa. But even worse, what about the wives who may enjoy a bit of pr0n themselves???

Julia

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hehe, nice one Julia...





its amazing, when it all boils down to it, the only problem people seem to have with religion, is to do with sex!

Rafa said:

well, don't think there is much similarity between christian and jewish principles at all, besides the one God bit...

If that were the case, Jesus wouldn't have been hung! Sure, there may be some rituals and garments that are common, but don't get confused between rituals and principles.

its amazing, when it all boils down to it, the only problem people seem to have with religion, is to do with sex!

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1. JC was a Jew.

2. Just sex?

What about Jihad, witch hunts, The Crusades, prevention of blood transfusions, Catholic v Protestant wars in GB, Martydom, The Spanish Inquisition, English and Spanish colonialism forcing conversion to Christianity and the destruction of indigenous cultures around the world, Balkans religious cleansing, Massacre of half a million 'Communists' by religion in Indonesia, forced conversion to one of the 5 'approved' religions in Indonesia forcing many animists to cease practicing traditions beliefs, abuse of children by clergy..............

I could keep going for the entire day and not make a trade.......the list is endless!

kennas said:

I have a question:

Is Space Cadet and Bullmarket in disguise?

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Seems likely to me, Kennas.

Julia

Rafa said:

well, don't think there is much similarity between christian and jewish principles at all, besides the one God bit...

If that were the case, Jesus wouldn't have been hung! Sure, there may be some rituals and garments that are common, but don't get confused between rituals and principles.




hehe, nice one Julia...





its amazing, when it all boils down to it, the only problem people seem to have with religion, is to do with sex!

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My point was that JC was Jewish and that Christianity came from the Jewish Religion.

Julia said:

Without meaning any disrespect to the poster, I'm astonished to find this view expressed in 2006!

Julia

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Well you did disrespect the poster. He / She is entitled to his view, and its not really a bad one is it? It is not one that I subscribe to but it certainly isnt a negative one if he / she chooses to practice it.
For the record I am non religious and dont share Space cadets views, but good on you for having them and stick to them. There are certainly many negative religious ideas out there and space cadets views dont seem to be negative to me.
Im sure there are views of mine and yours that others would be astonished with. Thank God (excuse the pun) we are in Australia and free.

Good on Space Cadet for not seeing logic and reason??? What the?

Good on the Taliban for sticking to their ideals too. Go Taliban! Go!!

This overall argument is very difficult as there seems to be (in the most part) two types of people in this world.

One who believes in reason and can not understand religion.
One who believes in religion and can not understand reason.

kennas said:

Good on Space Cadet for not seeing logic and reason??? What the?

Good on the Taliban for sticking to their ideals too. Go Taliban! Go!!

This overall argument is very difficult as there seems to be (in the most part) two types of people in this world.

One who believes in reason and can not understand religion.
One who believes in religion and can not understand reason.

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And what Christianity isnt the same in sticking to their ideals too?

JoshyJ said:

And what Christianity isnt the same in sticking to their ideals too?

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Joshy, The point is that just because you 'stick to your ideals' does not make you a genius, or a saint. I think this is an extremely dangerous value in regard to religious beliefs. It's this devout stoicism that leads us to religious conflict all over the world.

I'm not getting the impression that anyone in here is saying that they are a genius or saint for sticking up for their views.

What I see in here so far is just different people expressing their own views.

Kennas - I don't think anyone is sticking up for their personal views in here anymore than you or anyone else is sticking up for theirs.

The only ones I see around the globe trying to impose their view on the world atm are a small minority of twisted people claiming to be Muslims who are putting bombs to the rest of the world's head and saying we will blow you up unless you become one of us.

kennas said:

What about Jihad, witch hunts, The Crusades, prevention of blood transfusions, Catholic v Protestant wars in GB, Martydom, The Spanish Inquisition, English and Spanish colonialism forcing conversion to Christianity and the destruction of indigenous cultures around the world, Balkans religious cleansing, Massacre of half a million 'Communists' by religion in Indonesia, forced conversion to one of the 5 'approved' religions in Indonesia forcing many animists to cease practicing traditions beliefs, abuse of children by clergy..............

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Space Cadet,

Yes, just our views. We are being very polite today.

I would like to add to the list of atrocities and discraseful interferences committed by all religions in the name of God that I listed above with the most recent 'moral' church sponsored program to stop therapeutic cloning.

These are not extremists.

From The Age:

Cloning bill has numbers

Matthew Franklin and Patricia Karvelas
November 01, 2006

THE Senate looks almost certain to clear the way for scientists to conduct experiments involving therapeutic cloning.

Supporters of a private member's bill to be debated next week are confident they will have the numbers to win the conscience ballot despite intensifying lobbying against the move by churches and pro-life groups.

The bill, put forward by former health minister Kay Patterson, would lift a ban on cloning, also known as somatic nuclear cell transfer.

Under the research technique, a scientist injects adult genetic material into a human or animal egg which has had its nucleus removed. The resulting embryo is grown for up to 14 days and stripped of stem cells for use in research and creation of therapies to treat diseases.

While supporters see cloning as a means to cure illness, critics baulk at the creation of human life for research purposes.

Supporters of the bill said the only remaining obstacle to its passage was increasing pressure from interest groups and fears by some senators that voting for the law could cost them their electoral preselection.

"Some states have not yet completed their preselection seasons," said one senator.

"It's true that some people might vote against this bill even though they agree with it."

The comments came as opponents continued to flood senators with emails on cloning.

A website linked to the Australian Christian Lobby, which can be used as a platform from which to email a politician, has been the origin of more than 7000 emails in the past week and 17,149 since the debate began.

More than 11,800 people have signed the site's online petition opposing the bill. The email flood continued as cloning opponents rejected a report produced on Monday by the Senate's community affairs committee, which voted 5-3 to recommend that the bill be passed.

Catholic Health Australia chief executive Francis Sullivan said the report showed the scientific community was far from settled on the need to clone embryos. "The report does canvass many issues but fails to face head-on the fundamental issue at stake - that scientists wish to deliberately create human life to directly destroy it," he said.

Australian Federation of Right to Life Associations spokeswoman Kath Woolf said the Senate report was biased.


The church, interfering with politics and holding back the human race.

One who believes in reason and can not understand religion.
One who believes in religion and can not understand reason.

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There are 10 types of people, those you understand binary and those that don't.

I think you may want to increase the list to:

One who does not believe in religion and can not understand reason.
One who believes in reason and understands religion.

Here are some of the latter,

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

kennas said:

The church, interfering with politics and holding back the human race.

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I would say politics (man made) is whats caused a lot of the problems you mentioned in the first place! (and yes, religious institutions aren't immune from politics themselves)

Dogmatic following of any sort of rule or regulation is only going to lead to disaster... (Just like you typcasting people into two extremes...)

One who believes in reason and can not understand religion.
One who believes in religion and can not understand reason.

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On the other hand, treating everyone the way you would like to be treated, having respect for all life (and the planet which allows us to live) and giving praise to a higher power (be it God, Mother Nature, etc)... for the good things... is the central message of most religions...

Kennas, how can you go wrong with that?