Religion preying on our youth

kennas said:

Yeah, the Old Testament is a pretty scary read. The New Testament is Christianity, and yes, it's all about love and forgiveness, not fire and brimstone. The reason for this is the type of society people were living in at the time. It suited a purpose. The Tribe of Moses, needed fire and brimstone to control the people under extremely harsh conditions, and to fight wars to take their land as ganted to them by God. Yahweh, at that time, was actually the God of War and just one of the Gods of the Elohim. (Exactly when he became the One God is unclear) He suited Moseses cause in leading the Israelites out of The Sinai. He was a motivational tool more than anything.

I'm not actually sure if Jesus officially formed 'Christianity'. Christianity is based on him, but it wasn't until the Council of Nicea that Christain doctrine was formalised. Up till then it was a whole mix of ideas with many contradictions. (Haven't you read the Da Vinci Code? )

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the old da vinci code... yeah, i saw the movie too, not too bad that one.


Agree with your points about Yahweh... certainly Jesus preached about a new age, metrosexual so to speak, God! much to the annoyace of the fire and brimstrone rabbi going around at that time.



I fail to see how teaching everyone about Jesus's teachings can do any harm at all.... but yes, keep the dogma and the fundamentalism out of it.

Is that possible???...


But then, is it really possible to teach most humans about morality and appropriate behaviour without the concepts of God, karma, heaven and hell, etc... So far, that answer is sounding more like NO as well...

Rafa said:

But then, is it really possible to teach most humans about morality and appropriate behaviour without the concepts of God, karma, heaven and hell, etc... So far, that answer is sounding more like NO as well...

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Yes, I agree that teaching right and wrong through logic and reason is very difficult. It's easier to answer the tough questions about right and wrong and why we are here, origin of the universe, etc, with the answer 'because God says'. Or 'God made it so'. This is the easy option and one indoctrinated into children by parents and the church becasue it's easier to explain and an easy way of controlling children, and society for that matter: Do that and you go to HELL!!! ..etc. Be good and you go to Heaven. Easy! It's much more difficult for us to reason and convince children, and most people, through logic, that they should be 'good', for the betterment of themselves and others. Much tougher. By hey, why not try it?

kennas said:

Yes, I agree that teaching right and wrong through logic and reason is very difficult. ...Do that and you go to HELL!!! ..etc. Be good and you go to Heaven. Easy! It's much more difficult for us to reason and convince children

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Kennas - you're probablyXXX definitely right, but it's more of a veiled threat. ( and Im not talking about being attacked by moslem women ). And works best on 3 year olds I guess. My kids were never Christened, so they'd wonder what the HELL I was talking about if I carried onlike that. I just tell em "an honest man/woman is the noblest work of God" - and that's the only time I mention God - I then swing across to the honesty bit. BTW now that they're teenagers etc, doesnt matter what I say anyways. They tell me what values they have adopted. I agree with you that the church should stay out of schools. well meaning but.... In the army (just as in society and I guess in schools) there's no question that religion is used as a manipulative tool, "the opiate of the masses"
PS Lol - this is really a plug for poetry thread #84 .

Quote :- "Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet " - Napoleon Bonaparte 1769 - 1821

Praps I would agree that :- "If is conceivable that religion may be morally useful without being intellectually sustainable" - John Stuart Mills 1806 - 1873. ?? Still cant see justification for govt funding for religious instruction.

2020hindsight said:

Praps I would agree that :- "If is conceivable that religion may be morally useful without being intellectually sustainable" - John Stuart Mills 1806 - 1873. ?? Still cant see justification for govt funding for religious instruction.

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Not that I'm gonna burn the missus' bra over this.

In thinking about it some more - maybe the "opiate" of religious instruction is better than some of the other opiates being offered to kids these days. Just as long as they stick to morality in preference to "ringing those heavenly bells" - and giving those bad boys in the corner lessons on how to stoke fires.

I got a pretty big issue with Religion as a whole. And im known to speak alot about religion to my friends and such.

But i believe that there should be rules for religion, as to not force people to join them but let them choose. Also not to allow a religious view in parliament, when you bring a certain religious view into parliament you are saying 'stuff you' to other religions.

Such as the big thing about pornography and sex, theres been a load of research and surveys about whether or not adults should be allowed to choose pornography, usually it was 60%+ in favour of allowing adults to choose to view pornography, the research showed that there was no effect to adults that view pornography and that the people that were affected were more suseptable (dont know how to spell that) to any type of addiction such as gambling. Though because of the churches power and of there stronghold on parliament, noone listens to all the research and of the peoples views.

Church and religion also gives a grim view on sex as being something to be ashamed about and sinful when in actual fact its the total opposite, you create children with sex, Jesus was able to have sex (he was made in the human image), Mary having immaculate conception is seen to be a miracle and thats it, it doesnt show that having sex is wrong.

(Yes i know im rambling)

Though you have to just see around the world and you will see religion everywhere and then the Religion complains about dropping numbers one everything (sex, pornography, violence).

Ive been to Hillsong, the big church thats always in the news for making millions and millions in profit. And you feel pressured to join, you join cause either your friends join, or cause your friends or other people push you so that you can be holy. And then after you join from them pushing you they say it was you who chose and not them pushing you. They teach each other that not to separate themselves from the World but never join the World. (most of my friends are Christians, for me to be able to see them I usually would have to go to the Church, to see them.)

I believe religion door knocking should be illegal, religion going into private work areas should also be illegal (strip clubs). This should be illegal as it is just preying on the deprived, if you go to a begger and say ill give you $100 to cluck like a chicken in the street they will, if you go to a place like a strip club that society looks down upon and say that if you join us you will be saved from all your sins, of course some will join.

(Theres my rant over, I think for now)

Just thought ill post this link. Pretty interesting read of Stephen Baldwin interview.

http://ksexradio.com/ksexblog/post/index/33/Actor-Stephen-Baldwin-to-appear-on-KSEX-Wanker-Show

JoshyJ said:

I believe religion door knocking should be illegal, religion going into private work areas should also be illegal (strip clubs). This should be illegal as it is just preying on the deprived, if you go to a begger and say ill give you $100 to cluck like a chicken in the street they will, if you go to a place like a strip club that society looks down upon and say that if you join us you will be saved from all your sins, of course some will join.

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Joshy
just a quik rant in reply:-
1. Mormons knocking on Aussie dorrs sheesh - I guess the needy countries dont have ready access to Big Macs.
2. Mind you Macdonalds is nearly a religion in itself these days - at least to the teenagers.
3. I think youve got a better chance of converting the begger - and the stripper taking you up on the "$100 cluk like a chicken" offer
4. btw never thought of a strip club being a work place b4
5. I'm sure you'd agree that the Salvos are welcome anywhere, - and my guess is that even the stripper would interrupt her act to donate - such is the RESPECT for a TRULY philanthropic church.

JoshyJ said:

............Such as the big thing about pornography and sex, theres been a load of research and surveys about whether or not adults should be allowed to choose pornography, usually it was 60%+ in favour of allowing adults to choose to view pornography, the research showed that there was no effect to adults that view pornography and that the people that were affected were more suseptable (dont know how to spell that) to any type of addiction such as gambling.............

.............Church and religion also gives a grim view on sex as being something to be ashamed about and sinful when in actual fact its the total opposite, you create children with sex, Jesus was able to have sex (he was made in the human image), Mary having immaculate conception is seen to be a miracle and thats it, it doesnt show that having sex is wrong...........

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JoshyJ, either I am missing something or you are contradicting yourself to some extent.

You say that research (of which you don't quote any sources) showed that pornography had no affect on adults and then later in the same sentence you say that some actually were affected and that they were more susceptible to gambling or whatever - so which is it? Does the research show some adults are affected or that none are affected?

I also disagree that churches and religion give a grim view of sex.

I think you'll find most, if not all, teach that sex should be reserved for within the institution of marriage between a man and a woman because of the stability and bond etc etc that the institution of marriage is supposed to bring when a man and woman marry.

So the only question is whether people accept this or not and that is a whole new ball game and discussion which could go on forever but IMO the above does not portray sex as grim.

Space Cadet said:

I also disagree that churches and religion give a grim view of sex.

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Funny how many churchy people I know call having sex 'having a naughty'.

I think the original reasons for keeping sex in marriage was to control people and society to some extent. Way back when we didn't know how to control reproduction. Now we can control it, so lets just relax and enjoy it.

Oh, hang on, we can't because we're not allowed to use condoms or contraception because 'life is sacred'. Sperm is sacred? Geesh!

We could go on forever and round in circles discussing this until we each disappear up our own orifices lol

Suffice to say that there are numerous references in the New Testament that say having sex outside of marriage (and I mean between a man and woman married to each other and not to someone else..lol..) is comitting adultery.

And that's good enough for me.

Well ive heard lots of highly respected in political and religious circles as saying that as long as you are having sex for fun you are sining even if your married, the only way to have sex without sining is for reproduction purposes.

Space Cadet said:

JoshyJ, either I am missing something or you are contradicting yourself to some extent.

You say that research (of which you don't quote any sources) showed that pornography had no affect on adults and then later in the same sentence you say that some actually were affected and that they were more susceptible to gambling or whatever - so which is it? Does the research show some adults are affected or that none are affected?

I also disagree that churches and religion give a grim view of sex.

I think you'll find most, if not all, teach that sex should be reserved for within the institution of marriage between a man and a woman because of the stability and bond etc etc that the institution of marriage is supposed to bring when a man and woman marry.

So the only question is whether people accept this or not and that is a whole new ball game and discussion which could go on forever but IMO the above does not portray sex as grim.

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Sorry if it confused you, what i mean by it is, that those who say they were affected were usually affected cause of mental instability and not cause of the pornography itself, like children who play out violence cause of video games.

Its like the usual story where the exwife complains saying that pornography caused there breakup as she couldnt satisfy her exhusband anymore. When what would of been the reason that pushed him to pornography in the first place.

kennas said:

Funny how many churchy people I know call having sex 'having a naughty'.

I think the original reasons for keeping sex in marriage was to control people and society to some extent. Way back when we didn't know how to control reproduction. Now we can control it, so lets just relax and enjoy it.

Oh, hang on, we can't because we're not allowed to use condoms or contraception because 'life is sacred'. Sperm is sacred? Geesh!

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Thing is when you think of how its a way to control people is when you hear the stories/news reports of how people are not having enough children, and they wonder hopelessly what to do or just give the normal speech "please have children".

JoshyJ said:

Its like the usual story where the exwife complains saying that pornography caused there breakup as she couldnt satisfy her exhusband anymore. When what would of been the reason that pushed him to pornography in the first place.

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your beginning to sound like a certain mufti.... blaming the wives again, but this time, for turning to pornography!!!

Whats next.....???

Rafa said:

your beginning to sound like a certain mufti.... blaming the wives again, but this time, for turning to pornogrophy!!!

Whats next.....???

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I'm not blaming just the wife im just saying maybe there relationship was in trouble before the husband even started to get into pr0n. (if someone starts watching pr0n, there has to be something that got him to do it, even if it might just be curiosity.)

JoshyJ said:

Well ive heard lots of highly respected in political and religious circles as saying that as long as you are having sex for fun you are sining even if your married, the only way to have sex without sining is for reproduction purposes.

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If you are using contraception then yes, I believe you are as well.

The intent, and we can go around in circles ad-infinitum on this one as well, behind having sex in marriage apart from giving your spouse love and pleasure should be to leave open the possibility of producing a new life every time and I am sure that you know there are times when the probability of a woman becoming pregnant is at a maximum and a minimum, so IMO that eliminates the need for contraception.

So imo, according to most churches teachings I think you'll find that couples are free to have sex during marriage whenever they like without it being a sin as long as they leave open the possibility of producing human life by limiting their sexual activities to the times during the which the probability of a woman becoming pregnant best suits their plans.

Look at it this way: We live in the lucky country because, in the past that is, we live and are governed on CHRISTIAN principles. The 10 commandants are the best basis for living in harmony that I can think of. Has anyone got a better set of principles???

I think the original reasons for keeping sex in marriage was to control people and society to some extent. Way back when we didn't know how to control reproduction. Now we can control it, so lets just relax and enjoy it.

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Kennas,

Just curious, which team do you bat for, if you know what I mean ?

I understand why homosexuals would have issues with the teachings of Christianity and the Church.

nioka said:

Look at it this way: We live in the lucky country because, in the past that is, we live and are governed on CHRISTIAN principles. The 10 commandants are the best basis for living in harmony that I can think of. Has anyone got a better set of principles???

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The 10 commandants - were they in Hogan's Heroes??? - sorry couldn't resist

But I agree 100% with your post.

and Christian principles, came from Jewish principles.