Paying more than invoiced

pinkboy · 22 August 2014

Julia said:
pinkboy, I was commenting less on the hourly rate than the proposed rip-off of it taking four hours. I regularly get stuff like this done and it would be no more than one hour's work plus dumping the branches.

I'd suggest that if you'd asked the same bloke to quote for the same job there's no way in the world he'd have suggested it would take four hours. He clearly thought "dumb woman, probably, chance for a bit extra".

20min - Come to job and have a look, talk to customer. - 20min
10min - Do up quote, call customer. - 30min
20min - Travel to job, fuel up equipment etc. - 50min
40min - Pruning trees. - 1.5hrs
60min - Cutting 10 branches, load in ute, tie down, pack up gear - 2.5hrs
40min - Drive to tip, unload, dump fees, lunch. - 3hrs 10min.
10min - Dedicate some time to maintenance of equipment from every job. - 3hr 20min
10min - Invoice customer, any calling up to chase funds. 3hrs 30min

Adds up pretty easily. Havent dedicated any time to things like doing bookwork for IAS/GST/Annual Tax return, organise insurance, pay bills, lease/interest payments on vehicles/equipment, other overheads like lease of shed to put gear, electricity/fuel costs, PPE.........the list is endless.

Lot more to an hourly rate than you realise.

Perhaps I start a thread and see what people think....?

pinkboy

Julia · 22 August 2014

pinkboy said:
20min - Come to job and have a look, talk to customer. - 20min

He was working next door. One minute to walk.

10min - Do up quote, call customer. - 30min

No. 5 minutes where I said "removal of this, this and this," and he hummed and hahed, then said "four hours work @ $50 p.h."

End of story for me. Don't need a written quote, thanks.
Will wait until the usual bloke,( incidentally a qualified horticulturalist as distinct from the above mentioned person who has no garden experience, just bought a lawnmowing business a week before) to get back from holiday. $40 p.hr. Really fast and really competent.

20min - Travel to job, fuel up equipment etc. - 50min
40min - Pruning trees. - 1.5hrs
60min - Cutting 10 branches, load in ute, tie down, pack up gear - 2.5hrs
40min - Drive to tip, unload, dump fees, lunch. - 3hrs 10min.
10min - Dedicate some time to maintenance of equipment from every job. - 3hr 20min
10min - Invoice customer, any calling up to chase funds. 3hrs 30min

An hour to put ten not large branches (diameter about 6cm, length about 2.5 m) in a ute?????

For me no invoice required. Pay cash at the time. Up to the person what bookwork he does.

Adds up pretty easily. Havent dedicated any time to things like doing bookwork for IAS/GST/Annual Tax return, organise insurance, pay bills, lease/interest payments on vehicles/equipment, other overheads like lease of shed to put gear, electricity/fuel costs, PPE.........the list is endless.

Lot more to an hourly rate than you realise.

Perhaps I start a thread and see what people think....?

Yes, or you could just continue on this thread, seeing I'm happy with the suggestions offered re my pool servicing.

I think a lot of people would feel similarly to me - very appreciative of genuinely good and well priced service, but quick to completely reject someone thinking they can do a quick rip off.

pinkboy · 22 August 2014

I didnt have all the facts, so I was just waffling.

Ill start another thread - that way anyone else can contribute their thoughts to your thread, and anyone having a crank at mine can at their own peril.

pinkboy

burglar · 22 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
What is the name of the person who repairs windmill pumps ?

Mine is broken and repairers are hard to find in my area.

I also have no chance of getting a plumber on Christmas morning.

Are you in the region of One Tree Hill in SA?
Are you in genuine need?

I'll consider getting his name to you for a spotter's fee !

If you want to see his work there is a windmill in the Adelaide Showgrounds, facing Goodwood Road.

Being a Government job, he put in a tender for x8 his normal rate.
Anticipating problems was wise.
Day one, his labourers were refused entry till they had OH&S clearances.

End result, he made a profit and a landmark!

SirRumpole · 22 August 2014

burglar said:
Are you in the region of One Tree Hill in SA?
Are you in genuine need?

Thanks anyway burglar, but I'm in Central NSW and I don't think he would go this far

I'll have to keep looking

Macquack · 22 August 2014

Julia said:
I think a lot of people would feel similarly to me - very appreciative of genuinely good and well priced service, but quick to completely reject someone thinking they can do a quick rip off.

My perception of pool servicing is that there is no money to be made in the routine servicing, but they make up for that in replacing pool pumps, solar pumps, chlorinators, sand filters etc. on a regular basis.

I agree with pinkboy, fair dinkum, $20 for a pool service, would it even cover the costs of turning up?

Julia, can you get back to us when your pool pump dies unexpectedly ?

Julia · 22 August 2014

Macquack said:
My perception of pool servicing is that there is no money to be made in the routine servicing, but they make up for that in replacing pool pumps, solar pumps, chlorinators, sand filters etc. on a regular basis.

They also make money from servicing or they wouldn't do it. Duh!
Servicing from a retail pool shop will obviously be more expensive as they have rent etc, plus staff wages to cover.

I agree with pinkboy, fair dinkum, $20 for a pool service, would it even cover the costs of turning up?

You might like to quote pinkboys's post which says that. The following is the only contribution from pinkboy relating to the pool servicing:

I think you have misread the post. Julia's plumber did what you said as above, not her pool guy. Julia is asking is she going to regret giving the pool guy a tip/gift/whatever above invoice cost.

Im with giving a non monetary tip. Beer, wine, movie tickets etc - and only at Xmas or a call-out. Otherwise people expect or feel entitled. Human nature. Being nice is generally harder than being nasty.

I give a double movie pass to all my tenants at Xmas who pay their rent on time the whole period. I have 1 staff in one house and I give him a week rent free the week before Xmas to relieve the pressure for presents. Beyond that, its business as usual.
pinkboy

Try to read the thread before commenting, Mcquack.

However, to the point once again of the $20 which was the original point of my starting the thread, it's in all practicality not my responsibility to sort out the business model of someone whose advertised service I have accepted. If he is losing money on the servicing component of his business, then in a purely commercial sense it's up to him to increase the price.

Julia, can you get back to us when your pool pump dies unexpectedly ?

Why? He has already upgraded both the chlorinator and the pump, both of which are now top of the range and with capacity greater than the volume of water requires. So don't hold your breath waiting for either to die.
Moreover, I simply said that I would accept his advice in terms of best available, he told me what that was and the cost, and I accepted that without question.
He invoiced the items and the labour charge and it was paid the same day.

On another occasion he did a small repair and didn't charge any extra over the usual service fee. I added $25 to the payment to increase it to what seemed fair to me for the extra time, probably about 10 minutes.

Tyler Durden · 23 August 2014

DeepState said:
I think that the key drawback is moving from a purely discretionary basis that, over time, becomes expected.

This is key for me and a major deterrent any time I consider paying more than I am required. I would like to reward people for that specific occasion, but I don't want to create an expectation, such that if in the future I don't pay extra, they get crappy about it and view me in a negative light. It's a funny thing about human nature I find - if one day you stop getting something you were never entitled to in the first place, you get upset.

This article helps my point:

The switch to PIN-only credit card payments at the start of the month has had a major impact on the hospitality industry. Some full-time workers have seen their take-home pay drop by hundreds of dollars a week since the switch.

The new arrangement means customers must pay for their meal at the machine, with a screen prompt to add a tip before user enters their PIN number.

It’s a change that has seriously messed with the delicate social ritual of tipping, argue the waiters.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...t-should-we-care/story-fnkgdftz-1227034021360

SirRumpole · 23 August 2014

Interesting you mention tips at restaurants being added on to the credit card bill. I encountered this for the first time a few weeks ago.

Tips are not part of our socio-economic structure, they are another fad imported from the US, but if you don't leave a tip, does that indicate dissatisfaction ?

The customer is being emotionally blackmailed imo.

With our wage structures, I think the request for a tip at the credit card checkout should be outlawed. People can tip in cash if they desire.

SirRumpole · 23 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
Interesting you mention tips at restaurants being added on to the credit card bill. I encountered this for the first time a few weeks ago.

Tips are not part of our socio-economic structure, they are another fad imported from the US, but if you don't leave a tip, does that indicate dissatisfaction ?

The customer is being emotionally blackmailed imo.

With our wage structures, I think the request for a tip at the credit card checkout should be outlawed. People can tip in cash if they desire.

And further, if a tip is added on to the bill who gets the money ? The boss obviously, not the waiter/waitress you want to compliment for their personal attention.

Julia · 23 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
Interesting you mention tips at restaurants being added on to the credit card bill. I encountered this for the first time a few weeks ago.

Tips are not part of our socio-economic structure, they are another fad imported from the US, but if you don't leave a tip, does that indicate dissatisfaction ?

The customer is being emotionally blackmailed imo.

With our wage structures, I think the request for a tip at the credit card checkout should be outlawed. People can tip in cash if they desire.

SirRumpole said:
And further, if a tip is added on to the bill who gets the money ? The boss obviously, not the waiter/waitress you want to compliment for their personal attention.

Agree with both above posts.

I'm not sure I agree about not paying more than asked, though. I understand the objection but think it depends on the character of the person providing the service. If that person has been doing the work for some time, most people are going to have formed a pretty clear impression of what sort of person they are.

Going back to the gardening scenario discussed above, today my usual (horticulturalist) man was back from holiday and came to do the work described earlier. He had a teenage helper. In just over an hour the work previously mentioned was done, all loaded into the trailer, and also another 7 or 8 branches and a few other minor bits and pieces like trimming shrubs.

All was cleaned up and left immaculate. They still had to go to the tip, unload and go home, another 45 minutes at least.
Cost? $80.

I gave him $100 and consider that very good value for such competence, quick understanding of what was required, and always pleasant attitude. Also they worked in foul weather - strong wind and intermittent rain.
Having experienced several incompetent, dopey characters, I'm more than happy to offer recognition of someone so good.

Macquack · 23 August 2014

Julia said:
They also make money from servicing or they wouldn't do it. Duh!

I assume you have heard of a "loss leader"?

Julia said:
However, to the point once again of the $20 which was the original point of my starting the thread, it's in all practicality not my responsibility to sort out the business model of someone whose advertised service I have accepted. If he is losing money on the servicing component of his business, then in a purely commercial sense it's up to him to increase the price.

So you think it is a possibility he may be losing money on the servicing component of his business. Why would he do that?

Julia, can you get back to us when your pool pump dies unexpectedly ?

Julia said:
Why? He has already upgraded both the chlorinator and the pump, both of which are now top of the range and with capacity greater than the volume of water requires. So don't hold your breath waiting for either to die.

I sum up my case.

sptrawler · 23 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
Thanks anyway burglar, but I'm in Central NSW and I don't think he would go this far

I'll have to keep looking

I don't know the situation over your way, but my sister has a couple of farms over here in W.A and they have changed over to solar pumps. Apparently a lot less hassle.

SirRumpole · 23 August 2014

Macquack said:
I sum up my case.

Maybe "I rest my case milud"

I think see what you are getting at, but just in case, are you saying that inappropriate pool chemicals led to a breakdown in the pump and chlorinator , and replacing those recouped the "loss" on the chemicals/servicing ?.

SirRumpole · 23 August 2014

sptrawler said:
I don't know the situation over your way, but my sister has a couple of farms over here in W.A and they have changed over to solar pumps. Apparently a lot less hassle.

Solar pumps have been considered. There is a power source about 200 metres away from the bore so the most likely replacement will be an electric submersible pump.

pinkboy · 23 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
And further, if a tip is added on to the bill who gets the money ? The boss obviously, not the waiter/waitress you want to compliment for their personal attention.

Do I dare ask the tax treatment? ;-)

pinkboy

Macquack · 23 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
Maybe "I rest my case milud"

I think see what you are getting at, but just in case, are you saying that inappropriate pool chemicals led to a breakdown in the pump and chlorinator , and replacing those recouped the "loss" on the chemicals/servicing ?.

Hi there SirRumpole, I like your contributions on ASF.

I am not suggesting any wrong doing on the behalf of the personnel that service pools, but the "pool service industry" has mimicked the "insurance industry" in offering low "join fees" to "sting" the consumer at a later date.

How long will a pool pump last after any warranty period? It is a lottery with only one winner.

sptrawler · 23 August 2014

SirRumpole said:
Solar pumps have been considered. There is a power source about 200 metres away from the bore so the most likely replacement will be an electric submersible pump.

Makes sense, however the longer term cost of mains powered submersibles + the power supply run, may make solar viable. Obviously dependant on the lift required etc, but may help your 'green' credentials.

As you have always said, cost really shouldn't be an issue, if it helps reduce our emissions. lol
Or is that, only when someone else is paying for it.lol,lol,lol

I love your posts too, they're priceless.

tech/a · 23 August 2014

Seems there are sharks everywhere!

SirRumpole · 23 August 2014

sptrawler said:
I love your posts too, they're priceless.

I never realised I was so valued.

It gives me a warm feeling, somewhere.

Paying more than invoiced

pinkboy

Julia

In Memoriam

pinkboy

burglar

SirRumpole

Macquack

Julia

In Memoriam

Tyler Durden

SirRumpole

SirRumpole

Julia

In Memoriam

Macquack

sptrawler

SirRumpole

SirRumpole

pinkboy

Macquack

sptrawler

tech/a

No Ordinary Duck

SirRumpole

Similar threads

Paying more than invoiced

In Memoriam

In Memoriam

In Memoriam

No Ordinary Duck

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency