DeepState
Multi-Strategy, Quant and Fundamental
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Addendum: Belief in God is taken to mean undertaking behaviours required for salvation and avoiding damnation in the event that this God exists and is thus (a/the) true God.
If the above is not acceptable, there is nothing to discuss.
Pascal's Wager
Would any rational gambler think that the experience of a few sinful pleasures is worth the risk of eternal damnation?
We need to break this problem down. We need to begin from the concept that there may be a God amongst a very long list of false ones which just keep growing. But, we need to set aside any notion about different grades of salvation or damnation. Whilst I/you might agree that this is actually the case, Pascal's toy makes no such statement. We are discussing the toy.I reject the premise that you're more rational to choose one (any) god over none to hedge your bets. It relies on quite a few faulty premises and in my view creates a falsely linear/binary decision.
VC's arguments are largely captured in the clip he attached and I'll add the ones from Hitchens and Dawkins which add to that. I do not want to speak for VC, but I feel that the clips are stand alone and I do not intentionally mean to use them to put words in VC's mouth. I'll just stick to the clips.VC outlined quite a few flaws (hopefully he'll repeat them here). One that he didn't mention is that the very concept/emphasis of damnation is (to my knowledge) more or less unique to Christianity/Islam. Given this puzzle relies on a premise of punishment it creates a false paradigm. Sorry, I can't seem to explain this clearly.
This is the same argument against the wager that is considered to debunk this concept. It is quite possible that what you say is correct. If it is, then this wager is junk. Dawkins and the clip which VC provided put this forward as reasons why the wager is false. However, the wager is simply a construct. This construct does not make allowance for punishing Gods who punish more or less for different beliefs.But for me the most problematic issue is that you will actually be punished MORE for choosing the wrong God. Heresy is a much greater crime than apathy. So in that sense, we have a positive incentive NOT to choose a particular religion. As such, the most logical way of hedging your bets is to choose no God, and thus avoid choosing the wrong one. Pascal's concept only makes sense if we look strictly to Christianity vs Atheism (or strictly Islam or Atheism), but falls apart when we consider that multiple religions conflict, and punish us for choosing the wrong one.
. your choice of religion ultimately being the result of location, luck, period in time, ... and the fact that the religions expressly exclude each other
I read this when I studied philosophy.. and here's my rational response to this argument.
1. God is all knowing. So if you believe in God on this premise, God will null your scores and condamn you anyway
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2. As God didn't specify when you need to start believing. A rational agent should start to believe as close to death as possible. That way you get to enjoy the sinful pleasures for as long as you can without the corresponding punishment. The catch is that if you die in a "sudden" manner (i.e. within seconds with no chance of last thoughts) then you might die a sinner.
3. You can also work out mathematically what is the most advantageous time (i.e. maximise time of sinful pleasures while minimising chance of (2) above) to declare your belief in God. I think it'd be something like average life expectancy in your country of residence x 1/e (e = the exponential function).
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...t=17952&page=3&p=511137&viewfull=1#post511137
4. There are more than one God put forward by different religions... so picking the wrong one is just as bad.
4. There are more than one God put forward by different religions... so picking the wrong one is just as bad.
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