Osama Bin Laden Dead?

Glen48 said:

From what I can work out:
2 choppers fly in in beside the compound in the middle of a city one chopper has a failure and is destroyed. No one hears the chopper including the people in the compound, The compound is 100 yds/ 10 K from a military base, Troops enter the compound with 12/18 ft high walls , about 25 people are inside mainly women and children , the is a 40 minute fire fight but no bullet marks on the buildings outside as viewed by news agent's holding camera's up over the walls, Liner is found and asked to surrender he won't so 2 shots to the head, troops then collect 18 Hard drives, Cd's papers etc and leave with the body, all pile in to one chopper that took 2 to carry them in, The body is dumped some time , was it on the way back? and against Muslim law in to the ocean no one knows where, a photo is posted but found to be a dud.
Photo's of the house makes it look like crack house.
No one reports a 40 minute gun fight and sends support.
The Man who won the hide and seek contest every year in a row for 9 yrs is dead....again
Only the facts have been changed to protect the Innocent.

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You have overlooked the fact that a resident of the town, Sohaib Athar, tweeted the attack live as it was happening. He has no idea what was going on at the time, but witnessed helicopters and explosions.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Osam...mors-Surfaced-on-Twitter-as-Well-197900.shtml

Yes the DNA samples are rather suspicious but it would be political suicide to fake his death, something obviously occurred that night as Sohaib Athar's twitter suggests. It would be political suicide to fake his death when Osama could simply dispel that myth by producing another video, be assured he would too as to cause as much unrest amongst westerners as possible.
I don't understand the logic that he shouldn't have been killed as to prevent any revenge attacks from Muslims, this is exactly what they want us to think and is 9/11 fear all over again. They already have enough hatred in their blood because of invading Iraq, Afghanistan, bombing Libya and more so I don't think killing Osama can possibly add any more motivation to carry out futher atrocities.

Bellinuit,
Didn't over look the fact just didn't know about it, also looking to see what does not add up in all this,
about a helicopter hovering the town and later about an explosion and reports that the helicopter wasn't Pakistani. where was the other one?? Does not prove Bin Liner as killed just a chopper flying around.

Appreciate your input the more we can get our collective brains working the soon we can decide on this.
One would have to assume Binni would have had an escape route and a chopper flying around should have got his attention and his guards the White House should e milking this in every way right down to what the chopper pilot next door neighbours dog had for breaksfast.
At this stage there are to many loose ends.

overhang said:

Yes the DNA samples are rather suspicious but it would be political suicide to fake his death, something obviously occurred that night as Sohaib Athar's twitter suggests. It would be political suicide to fake his death when Osama could simply dispel that myth by producing another video, be assured he would too as to cause as much unrest amongst westerners as possible.
I don't understand the logic that he shouldn't have been killed as to prevent any revenge attacks from Muslims, this is exactly what they want us to think and is 9/11 fear all over again. They already have enough hatred in their blood because of invading Iraq, Afghanistan, bombing Libya and more so I don't think killing Osama can possibly add any more motivation to carry out futher atrocities.

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I certainly believe that an attack took place. There is Sohaib Athar's tweet, photos of the compound on fire and of the destroyed helicopter (both courtesy of Pakistan TV). The photo of the people watching live from the white house with the tense looks on their faces would require particularly good acting and agreement from many diverse participants who would all have to be complicit in the deceit. The helicopters and the fires would have required Pakistan involvement in the deceit. No sane US president would put their faith in so many Pakistanis all staying mum.

I think the only area open to speculation is:

1. Did they kill Osama or
2. did they just capture him and pretend to kill him, so that he could be interrogated without fear of hostage taking to demand his release, or
3. was it someone else other than Osama living there, so the complete operation was a cockup which they are now trying to cover up.

I think 2 and 3 are unlikely because they claimed to have shot Osama's wife in the leg. This means that if it all is a conspiracy, the president and his staff are betting their political futures on the testimony of Osama's wife. They are not that stupid.

If there are some doubts on the story, I think it will be in the minor details such as whether Osama resisted etc. There are just too many people involved, from his own staff, to the military, to the Pakistanis for this to be other than what is claimed.

Follow http://www.aljazeera.net (not the English version).

Interesting stuff there.

tech/a said:

Does Moon Landing ring a bell?(.

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Satisfied over Moon landing

However, if I was building a purpose-built, cost-doesnt-matter compound for the worlds most wanted man, I would for certain ensure it had a reinforced central core that led to an escape tunnel leading to another building. ( and few other nasty tricks to boot)

As a builder/excavator, wouldnt you recomend that feature Tech?

I personally find it is difficult to tell lies/truth, fact/fiction from any Govt atm, let alone USA

Here is an image of the compound with the downed helicopter taken by the IKONOS satellite only a matter of hours after the raid (click on image for larger version).
From:http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/new-satellite-images-show-downed-helo-at-osama-hideout/

awg said:

Satisfied over Moon landing

However, if I was building a purpose-built, cost-doesnt-matter compound for the worlds most wanted man, I would for certain ensure it had a reinforced central core that led to an escape tunnel leading to another building. ( and few other nasty tricks to boot)

As a builder/excavator, wouldnt you recomend that feature Tech?

I personally find it is difficult to tell lies/truth, fact/fiction from any Govt atm, let alone USA

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Wouldnt help you much.
The Yanks can get through 3 meters of concrete no problems.
Best defence was movement.
But if the guy was limited to pad and pencil and telephone box couriers
V the US CIA FBI and every other acronym----makes you really wonder.

I think it's fair to say that dead or alive, Binny isn't at large any more. They would have to be utter morons to have him still out there and claim to have killed him. All his followers would know, he could make a quick video saying "Heh, stupid Americans claimed they killed me at the start of May 2011" and the world would know, it would be political suicide.

It's remotely possible that he has been dead for some time and Osama, er, Obama just decided to take credit for it now with a current story, but that seems very unlikely and he'd probably be setting himself up for death by scandal when people find out Obama, er, Osama died earlier. But then again, more stupid moves have been made.

I think it's most likely that they've taken him alive. As was immediately obvious to me and people have said here, they could take him alive about as easily as taking him dead. The guys doing the mission would have been the best of the best, so why wouldn't they shoot his hands off rather than his head? Or use something to stun rather than kill, or whatever. Obviously they'd want to interrogate him, and naturally, doing that with public knowledge would be a political nightmare and would incite revenge terrorism (not that their story won't anyway). They'd have to be accountable for their methods, they'd be under scrutiny, they'd have more trouble keeping his confessions quiet. People would want to know what was going on.

The DNA is stupid. At best, they could confirm that the DNA was from someone related to the supposed sister. They couldn't confirm sibling without other peoples' DNA to compare to (although it probably would have been easy enough to know the man wasn't her son, with or without DNA). If it was only his half sister it would make things even more difficult. Knowing it was someone's brother doesn't mean it was any particular brother, so the DNA can't be considered conclusive evidence of identity.

Taking the body away, but immediately dumping it at sea... out of respect for the religious beliefs? C'mon, who wrote this story? A three year old?

The ease of getting in and taking him away just seems wrong. As others said, why wouldn't he have an escape plan? Either the Americans knew more than they are talking about and blocked the escapes (possible) or it's another thing which doesn't add up.

Lots of things don't add up here. To me it seems most likely by far that Binny is being interrogated right now, but I don't expect we'll ever hear a public word about it.

The world is definitely less safe now than it was last week. He did all the damage he could do, any knowledge or training he could give others has been given to many of his followers. For years now he has just been a figurehead. Rather than some quiet retired terrorist he is now a martyr, inspiring the next generation to get their virgins.

Celebrating the killing of a man, even if he was evil, is just morbid. Being glad that he is gone is one thing, but jubilant celebration is just sick. Not only that, it's going to piss off the terrorists. I've been hearing people talking about how this might slow terrorism down and calm down the middle east.... huh?

PS. The moon landing videos are very clearly genuine if you know what you're looking at. Just look at all that fine dust settling like it was made of ball bearings! No one could have faked that in the 60s, it could only have been filmed in a vacuum.

Latest from C &n & n is they used Facial Imagining Programe to confirm they had old mate guess the Seal CO Mis-spoke when he told the lads to finish off on his face but he didn't meand 2 shots.

Sdajii said:

Taking the body away, but immediately dumping it at sea... out of respect for the religious beliefs? C'mon, who wrote this story? A three year old?

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That was probably Barack Obama's idea. After all his father was a Muslim.

Calliope said:

That was probably Barack Obama's idea. After all his father was a Muslim.

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I'm sure I read recently his father abandoned Islam and became an atheist.

Even with the shooting of Osama's widow, the theory that he was taken alive is possible. If he was shot in the head by some sort of rubber bullet, he would have lost consciousness, be very bloodied and look for all intents and purposes like he was dead. She, being badly injured, would have had no time nor would she have been in a proper state of mind to verify.

I don't think the theory that the whole thing was a fabrication can stand up to scrutiny. There were just too many involved to pull it off.

What may or not prove that Osama was killed will be the number of crew on the USS Carl Vinson who saw his body. If a few dozen or so saw the body being removed from the helicopter, that would be hard to fabricate. If his body was completely covered from arrival to burial at sea, that would add to the suspicions he is still alive.

Facebook did it.

There do seem to be many gray areas surrounding the raid. I don't understand how a gunfight can take place outside whilst choppers are hovering over but yet Osama was supposedly unarmed and yet after all that time he had to prepare for the assault he resists arrest at the last minute. Do we know where his wounded wife is now?

overhang said:

Do we know where his wounded wife is now?

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In Pakistani custody according to SBS news. Presumably in hospital.

awg said:

I am puzzled about this:

An incursion deep into Pakistan, a Country with active air defence systems,

a 40min reported firefight within 300 metres of Pakistan equivalant of Duntroon, a base allegedly on 15 min red-alert footing.

So they knew/did nothing? Surely the base commander would be wtf?

No jets scrambled?

ok, leave that aside, its clear US forces had the means, capability & opportunity to take him alive, based on what they have said ( ie stun grenades, nerve gas, buckshot etc etc) so either a huge stuff up, they wanted him dead, or they took him alive.

also no casualties mentioned on the US side...attacking a purpose built compound

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Pakistan air defences would have been unable to detect the low flying stealth configured birds for seal team 6.

Neither would they have detected the B2 stealth bombers dropping an array of short lived low earth orbit satellites for high def and infra red surveillance of the compound.

NASA subsoil sats would have already scanned for subsoil infrared traces for escape routes in tunnels.

Game over.

Sound like a good game is it on Play station yet?

wayneL said:

Follow http://www.aljazeera.net (not the English version).

Interesting stuff there.

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It would have been nicer to provide a dictionary from Urdu to English.

Any way I found the English version of Aljazeera in your link http://english.aljazeera.net/

One thing all this has shown is how hopeless the media is at reporting the facts it is almost like some one told them one night in a bar at 2 am and they are going on memory.
So far the compound is 10' to 10 K away from OBL hut, 2 /4 choppers/ shot twice in the head/ one in the head one in the chest/ 40 minute gun fire fight in a house full of women and kids/ etc.