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Obama wins US Presidency

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gav said:
Ummm, hate to break it to ya, but GWB is leaving in Jan, no matter who was voted in...

Did u only find out today that GWB wont be the US pres after Jan?
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Gav of course I understand that the "official" duties begin in January however, as of tomorrow he will be in meetings with advisors on many fronts. They said due to the disaster of the USA he can't waste time. So I believe that by the time he ready to take the reins he will be up on situations to act more swiftly.

But Bush is gone......It still is making my night
 
For some years now I've felt cynical about all things political, but I surprised myself today by feeling a sense of hope that perhaps there might now come about some gradual change which might restore some pride to America, and as a consequence to her allies.

Senator McCain's supporters can feel immensely proud of their candidate's graciousness in defeat today. If he puts into practice the co-operation he described in his speech today, and if Obama lives up to his promises of a shared future, we can all feel some optimism, along with the immense relief that the worst president ever (even including Nixon) will shortly fade into obscurity.

I can't begin to imagine how African Americans of a generation who can remember being segregated must be feeling tonight. I wish Barack Obama success and support in every way.
 
It's great for the US.

I just think it's a pity that he has perhaps come at such a bad time, and may not be able to institute the social reform that is so desperately needed in the US.

The US needs worldly leaders. The population being dominated by the religious right and anal retentive almost mandates this. Obama will be almost exactly the sort of leader they need.

Bringing them out into the world with the populace not actually realising.

But I will miss those Buschisms. -sniff-

Imagine voting or having supported Bush. All those churchies that voted for him on mass should be crucified for the damage they have brought on the world...

I hope the crimes of this administration are not left unpunished. I mean ****, they impeached someone because of his private relationships, but have completely ignored things that have massively materially affected their lives?
 
Whats interesting about this all if Obama was white instead of black i wonder if things would be different? i mean he said a 106yr old black women voted for the 1st time???? Racism definately ruled this election.
 
Smurf1976 said:
If there's one bit of great news it's that he's not a Warpublican. The last thing we need is another war.

Now we just need to stamp out the religious fundamentalists. Unortunately that's not so easy...
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With impeccable timing, the US military have just admitted today to wiping out another 40 or so Afghan civilian men, women and children at YET ANOTHER air strike on a wedding party. Of course, they have offered a sincere "Sorry" and condolences and promised to have YET ANOTHER military inquiry (read - total whitewash).

The Afghan President has begged the incoming U.S. President to help "stop the killing of Afghan civilians by the US military".

Good luck, Obama....

I wonder how the Military War-Hawks regard the election result?

I suspect a lot more "collateral damage" will be inflicted on the populaces of Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan over the coming weeks in a series of increased air strikes while GWB "tidies things up" on his watch. Wouldn't mind betting ol' warhorse GWB "unconditionally pardons" a whole dang heap of soldiers awaiting sentencing or trial in military courts for the proven or suspected murder or manslaughter of Iraqis, Afghans etc..etc. Apparently, it is the God-given right of a departing President to do so.



aj
 
Ageo said:
Whats interesting about this all if Obama was white instead of black i wonder if things would be different? i mean he said a 106yr old black women voted for the 1st time???? Racism definately ruled this election.
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I doubt it would be different. African-Americans make up 13% of the US population, so even if they voted in record numbers this time Obama still needed very strong support from white America, which he got.

Race played a part, obviously. But it's an exaggeration to say that "Racism ... ruled this election". McCain would be 80 years old if he saw out 2 terms, and he represented the George Bush party.
 
U.S. presidency is not a goal pursued by many, hence the two choices.I think most people simply voted against McCain rather than for Obama.
 
Ageo said:
Whats interesting about this all if Obama was white instead of black i wonder if things would be different? i mean he said a 106yr old black women voted for the 1st time???? Racism definately ruled this election.
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His mother is white?

Racism did not 'rule' this election - the economy and Bush failed presidency ruled this election.

'Racism' is a colonial concept used to gain economic control over African land and to support slavery. This then 'morphed' into 19th and 20th century popular culture as the Church propagated the concept in support of the theocracies that ran the European and American economies at the time.

Race is no longer a relevant concept in the 21st century. To say this was a 'race based' election is absurd IMO.
 
Finally some decent points!, i stand corrected.

Now on a side note who thinks Obama is really about change?? and if yes please explain.......
 
Expectations are so high of him that chances to get disappointed are very high too. Beginning of new era, or so I hope.
 
Wysiwyg said:
U.S. presidency is not a goal pursued by many, hence the two choices.I think most people simply voted against McCain rather than for Obama.
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I'm not sure that's right. I think McCain was up against impossible odds, not just from Obama, but even more because of the Party he represents. Given the state of America and the immense unpopularity of GWB, McCain did remarkably well to achieve the result he did.

I admired his endless energy for his age, and his concession speech was one of the best I've ever heard. I could have lived with McCain as President, but not Palin as VP.

And I completely disagree that the election was about race.
 
Race didn't win the election It did however bring out a lot of first time voters. But Bill Hayden's drover's dog could have won this election after the Republican mess of the last four years.
 
Boggo said:
There are similarities between Obama and the greatest president that America has ever had, namely Abraham Lincoln, including the fact that they both came from Illinois.
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I hate to rain on your parade but Lincoln (Republican), (along with Franklin Roosevelt, Democrat), was probably the worst president that the USA ever had. Lincoln has to shoulder most of the blame for the 600,000 killed in the War of Northern Aggression (the so-called Civil War).

Among other things, Lincoln also suspended habeas corpus, jailed the Chief Justice and hundreds of his political opponents and critics of his administration. Lincoln was never an opponent of slavery (except as it suited his political ends) and in fact he disliked negroes and wanted them repatriated to Africa.

The war was much more about centralism vs federalism and particularly protection vs free trade and the source of federal revenues. No (other) country has fought a war exclusively about slavery, including the US. While slavery was admittedly in the mix, Lincoln forced the war by invading the South (Fort Sumter was an excuse) for his own ends.

Like many others you have been caught up in the Lincoln hagiography. It's probably time that you gave up swallowing the standard propaganda myths and started researching and thinking for yourself.

You are right about one thing; they both come from Illinois. Obama, however, is from Chicago, one of the most politically corrupt cities in the country.
 


How could you call Franklin D Roosevelt one of the worst Presidents ever? His policies helped end the Great Depression and set up the US well for WW11. Most scholars rate him one of the best Presidents, some say the best.
 

In your view, who is the best President the USA has ever had?
 
Knobby22 said:
How could you call Franklin D Roosevelt one of the worst Presidents ever? His policies helped end the Great Depression and set up the US well for WW11. Most scholars rate him one of the best Presidents, some say the best.
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Well, I suppose it's a function of what schools the scholars attend. Roosevelt, rather than ending the depression, prolonged it by at least a decade and the economic system didn't fully recover until after the war. His three terms saw the greatest government intervention and flirtation with socialism that the US has been involved in. It was Keynesianism at its worst and had the usual disastrous results.

Echoes of his policies still endure; the recent fiasco with Fannie May and Freddie Mac are a legacy of FDR. I have no doubt that his actions were well intentioned (as far as they strengthened his political position) but as always with government intervention, it's so often about the unintended consequences. Had his administration left well alone, the depression would have been over much quicker and probably been much less severe.

Roosevelt provoked the Japanese sufficiently to cause the attack on Pearl Harbour. There is strong evidence that he knew of the impending attack but turned a blind eye. He knew that it would inflame US public opinion sufficiently to make the war palatable.

In his latter years (admittedly as a sick man) he was completely blind-sided by Stalin at Yalta and elsewhere and effectively lost Eastern Europe to the Soviets and largely precipitated the Cold War.

I'm at a loss as to know why he is touted as the 'best', except perhaps for his leadership during the war.
 
So I think you're talking about WWII - the one that started in 1941?

say Pronto, was it a good thing or a bad thing if FDR manipulated US public opinion, and made US participation in the war "palatable"?

Thanks for your help btw, but we were there in 1939 - on principle of sorts
 

Oh good, I thought we were going to be denied your erudition.

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to what are you talking about? Who's help?, who's we?

I doubt if you were around at the time. If you were, you would have been cheering on Hitler's cause up until June 1941 when he invaded Russia. That's what all the other Lefties were doing at that time (on the instructions of the Comintern).
 
haunting said:
In your view, who is the best President the USA has ever had?
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To ask this question is to miss the point on what the President is really meant to be. The American founding fathers never wanted another 'King George III' over them, but over time that is exactly what the US has ended up with; an Imperial Presidency.

The US was intended to be a federation of sovereign states. At one stage it was mooted that the President would be drawn from among the State Governors on a rotation basis and for a limited period only; a 'first among equals' approach.

The sovereignty of the States and the federation has been gradually eroded and was effectively killed off by the so-called Civil War. Power has been progressively centred on Washington and to the person of the President. Much the same thing has happened here as power becomes more centralised in Canberra and the States become less important as political entities. The Australian Senate's role as the States' House is largely ignored.

The American founding fathers also abhored 'democracy'. This was seen as the tyranny of the majority (i.e. the mob) who could be whipped up by demagoguery or otherwise. Nowhere in the US Constitution, Articles of Association or Declaration of Independence does the word 'democracy' ever occur. Personal liberty is guaranteed by the constitution and is not (or should not be) dependent upon any other source.

My favorite President will be the one who takes the USA to a contemporary version of what was originally intended. And this is identical to what I would like to see in this country:
  • Personal liberty
  • Small government
  • Free markets

Do I think that this will occur with Rudd, Obama or, for that matter, either political party here or in the USA.

You tell me!
 
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