Non-CC Environmental Issues

One of my problems with the obsession with climate change, apart from my stated view on that (1/ it exists but is not a problem in the way alarmists believe 2/ Even IF a problem mitigation is a better route), is that it detracts both attention, energy and brains away from real environmental problems that we should and can address.

I notice a subtle turning of attention by some environmental scientists towards these issues.

It's a good step IMO.

Climate change is the environmental problem that obsesses us, the one that's the focus of high-flying international summits and hardcore national politics. But it's not the only environmental problem — and it's not even the biggest one. That happens to be the crisis in agriculture and land use

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2115423,00.html#ixzz1vowB7iig

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BTW - Please let's keep this on topic and take any CC arguments to the appropriate thread.

wayneL said:

One of my problems with the obsession with climate change, apart from my stated view on that (1/ it exists but is not a problem in the way alarmists believe 2/ Even IF a problem mitigation is a better route), is that it detracts both attention, energy and brains away from real environmental problems that we should and can address.

I notice a subtle turning of attention by some environmental scientists towards these issues.

It's a good step IMO.

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There is not enough focus on air pollution from vehicles, or water pollution by industrial waste which could be causing a lot of the diseases that people are now facing. Asthma cases in children have increased rapidly, as have food allergies. It's time these pollution sources were taken more seriously.

There are many non CC environment problems. They are very serious and need urgent attention. But many of these are interconnected with each other and with CC.

The issue is described in the field as a "wicked problem". There are no simple or best answers. In many cases the most valuable solutions have to address multiple problems.

Take the example of food production and running out of fertile soil. One particularly elegant solution to the problem involves the widespread development of a biochar industry. In this particular model large areas of land are planted to fast growing crops ( could be hemp and others I can't remember right now) which are then turned into biochar which is sequestered into the soil. One can also add organic waste into the pyrolysis unit to further increase the nutritional value of the product and tackle waste problems

The result ? A transfer of CO2 into soil based carbon that also dramatically improves long term soil fertility and improves the capacity of the world to feed itself.

(And yes it is one of the measures CC scientists urge as one of the ways to tackle AGW. )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_problem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biochar
http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/654444

If it makes you feel any worse Wayne, I doubt that either of those problems are going to be solved.

When it comes to farming especially....farmland is being depleted at alarming rates due to incorrect farming practices. Phosphorous (and of course oil) are running out at an alarming rates as well, and so soon we will not have fertilisers.

Overall, it is not good to be a young person on this planet.

I agree that we should be doing everything we can to reduce air and water pollution. A lot of cities in Asia and South America you can feel the damage the smog is doing to you, especially when you are not used to it. Surely it cant be good in the longer term inhaling all those fumes and gasses

An experiment.

1. Get a cage and two mice of opposite sex. Any mice will do - random brown ones found outside will be fine as long as they are healthy.

2. Provide a full bowl of nutritious food each day and plenty of water.

3. Watch as the mouse population rapidly increases.

4. Now note that the mouse population will stabilise.

Unlike humans, mice are smart enough to work out that with a limited amount of space and a fixed quantity of food supplied each day there is a limit to the sensible population of mice within the cage. And, also unlike humans, mice are capable of limiting their numbers to within this level.

Constant growth on a finite planet is unsustainable no matter how it is powered. It doesn't matter if CO2 is found to be not a problem and we find a few trillion more barrels of oil. Nor does it matter if someone works out how to make electricity from thin air.

It is economic growth itself that will ensure we make one almighty mess and consume all available resources. The only reason so much effort is expended on the subject of energy is because it is the first resource where the limits have come to attention, largely because the direct pollution effects are so obvious to so many and have been for decades.

With energy, it largely came to public attention in the 1970's through various means. First came the debate about Lake Pedder (Tas) and Newport Power Station (Vic), then came the 1973 oil crisis, then the horror smogs in American cities and also closer to home (particularly Sydney) came to public attention, then the 1979 oil crisis and the Three Mile Island incident, then the virtual war over the Gordon-below-Franklin dam (Tas 1979-83) and the controversy over uranium mining.

By the early 1980's it seemed that practically no energy source was not problematic in some way. Oil was unreliable. Nuclear was dangerous. Hydro drowned the wilderness. The public had come to understand that there is a non-CC environmental price to be paid for energy.

During the 80's things only got worse. Chernobyl (1986) scared practically all the remaining nuclear supporters away and not long afterward Australians first heard of "the greenhouse effect" (now called "climate change"). Throw in the Exxon Valdez oil spill for good measure as well.

Then along came Gulf War 1 in the 1990's and since then we've had more wars over oil, another major oil price shock and another major nuclear incident. Meanwhile electricity prices soar and people seem to have realised that wood smoke isn't too healthy either.

So the public can very clearly see that there are non-CC environmental (and other) problems with energy, hence the attention it receives. 40 years ago nobody apart from engineers gave it a thought whereas now it has become a mainstream topic as much as any other issue.

But if we somehow find a solution to the energy problem then all that does is enable unrestrained economic growth. And at that point we then run straight into some other resource or environmental crisis - biodiversity, metals, toxics, fish depletion or whatever.

Keep doing more and more stuff and we'll end up making more and more of a mess. Even mice can work that one out.

Climate change ? who knows.

But what we should be doing is reducing the trashing of the environment by human activity, the rivers are disgusting and there a myriad of other problems.

The Carbon Tax will do nothing as business will just factor it in and pass the cost on. This tax is just that, a Tax.

We need severe penalties for polution so industry will find a cleaner way, I mean SEVERE penalties.

You're not going to effect the climate, who are we kidding, but we can make our space a bit cleaner.

Burnsie, perhaps you'd be a bit less depressed about the environment if you were living outside of a major city.
Living in a regional coastal centre, I have only unpleasant memories of smoke filled winters (open fires in almost every home in a cold climate) and the choking smells of backed up traffic.

Air here is clean and the beaches largely the same, with clear unpolluted ocean.

Julia said:

Burnsie, perhaps you'd be a bit less depressed about the environment if you were living outside of a major city.
Living in a regional coastal centre, I have only unpleasant memories of smoke filled winters (open fires in almost every home in a cold climate) and the choking smells of backed up traffic.

Air here is clean and the beaches largely the same, with clear unpolluted ocean.

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Well actually I've been thinking seriously about a sea change but where to go ?

Port Douglas, too far away.

Tassie, too cold ?

I'd like to have a look at the east coast more, Byron Bay, etc but I never seem to get around to it.

That stiil however leaves those in the city in a semi toxic environment

Any suggestions welcome

MrBurns said:

The Carbon Tax will do nothing as business will just factor it in and pass the cost on. This tax is just that, a Tax.

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Wrong 100% wrong

I don't want to derail this thread but what the carbon tax will absolutely do is force the big emitters to look at their GHG profile and thus make any easy decisions regarding reductions...the hard decisions may or may not be "kicked down the road".

Some businesses will choose to do nothing others have already assessed their GHG footprint (often many years ago) and will now or have already made the simple easy changes.

MrBurns said:

Well actually I've been thinking seriously about a sea change but where to go ?

Any suggestions welcome

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Can i suggest Merimbula on the far south coast of NSW...almost sub tropical, quiet, small, beautiful, friendly and great value for money.

So_Cynical said:

Wrong 100% wrong

I don't want to derail this thread but what the carbon tax will absolutely do is force the big emitters to look at their GHG profile and thus make any easy decisions regarding reductions...the hard decisions may or may not be "kicked down the road".

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I don't agree I think nothing will change except the cost of living.

Merimbula, yes thanks must have a look

MrBurns said:

Merimbula, yes thanks must have a look

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Labor held electorate , you wouldn't like it

MrBurns said:

...Merimbula, yes thanks must have a look

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An interesting thing about Eden-Monaro electorate (containing Merimbula) - it predicts the Federal government. As Eden Monaro votes, so does the nation.

Burnsie, if you want my advice, pick somewhere within a couple of hours drive from your home city. Somewhere with services and transport, and less of a price markup on things like fuel. The elastic band pulls a lot of people back from the NSW far south coast, beautiful as it is.

Interesting about the mice thing Smurf, but not all animals are like that. The koalas in Kangaroo Island nearly ate themselves out of existence a few years ago...

Granted humans should know better because of our intelligence, its just the fact that we have to try and overcome our hardwired biological instincts, on a global, not just local scale

You could solve a very large number of pollution/resource shortage issues with a cheap non polluting non fossil fuel based technology.

This may be the one.

Electricity generated from water: BlackLight Power announces validation of its scientific breakthrough in energy production

CRANBURY, N.J., May 22, 2012 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Leading academic and industry experts have validated BlackLight's new process that directly produces electric energy from the conversion of water vapor to a new, more stable form of Hydrogen.

Experts agree that BlackLight's "Hydrino theory" represents a fundamental breakthrough in clean energy technology.

BlackLight Power, Inc. (BLP) today announced a major breakthrough in clean energy technology, which experts agree holds tremendous promise for a wide range of commercial applications. The announcement comes on the heels of BlackLight's recent completion of a $5 million round of financing to support commercial development of its new process for producing affordable, reliable energy from water vapor.

In six separate, independent studies, leading scientists from academia and industry with PhDs from prestigious universities including the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the California Institute of Technology, confirm that BlackLight has achieved a technological breakthrough with its CIHT (Catalyst-Induced-Hydrino-Transition) clean energy generating process and cell. The Process is fueled by water vapor that is a gaseous component of air and present wherever there is any source of water. The CIHT cell harnesses this energy as electrical power output and is suitable for essentially all power applications including transportation applications and electrical power production completely autonomous of fuels and grid infrastructure at a small fraction of the current capital costs.

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http://www.marketwatch.com/story/el...-breakthrough-in-energy-production-2012-05-22

On the other hand....

I decided (naturally...) to do a bit more checking on Blacklight power. Seems as if the company and the main principal have been around for many years promoting this technology. As authoritative as the PR looked I think it still needs a long barge pole.

We'll see..

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/nuclear/loser-hot-or-not
http://ipkitten.blogspot.com.au/2008/03/blacklight-power-sci-fi-science.html

And if you are really enthusiastic about discovering what black light power has to offer and its exciting business model check out its business case below.
_______________________________________________________________

A few years ago I came across another extremely impressive "water to electricity " company. (can't remember its name right now..) Really great website, incredibly authoritative Board - and a total scam. They went down the river.

But I have to say it was a most convincing long con.

http://www.blacklightpower.com/business/business-summary/

There was an item over the weekend on Radio National about the now compulsory light bulbs emitting carcinogenic substances.
(apologies for no link but I didn't hear the start of the program so can't source it.)

So that's terrific then. We're saving the planet with these wonderful devices, their hideous light notwithstanding, but potentially killing ourselves.

Julia said:

There was an item over the weekend on Radio National about the now compulsory light bulbs emitting carcinogenic substances.
(apologies for no link but I didn't hear the start of the program so can't source it.)

So that's terrific then. We're saving the planet with these wonderful devices, their hideous light notwithstanding, but potentially killing ourselves.

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That madman (he of pump nitrous oxide into the atmosphere fame), Tim Flannery, wants to pull mercury fillings before corpses are cremated...

I guess we can recycle the mercury into our lovely lightbulbs.

wayneL said:

That madman (he of pump nitrous oxide into the atmosphere fame), Tim Flannery, wants to pull mercury fillings before corpses are cremated...

I guess we can recycle the mercury into our lovely lightbulbs.

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You don't let anything as silly as research get in the way of a gratuitous insult do you Wayne ?

The issue of mercury pollution from cremation has been recognized for many years. It comes from accumulations in the body (which come from previous pollution ) and obviously mercury fillings. There are a number of reports which consider ways to minimize this pollution. Options are filters on the crematoria and/or removal of mercury filled teeth.

http://no2crematory.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/toxic_emission_from-_crematoriesenv-intl.pdf
http://www.springerlink.com/content/04h2ryvnkenvevt1/
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec/26/nation/na-cremate26