New to the game

hangseng said:

Don't pay others thousands to attend courses and buy their software, unless you simply have loads of cash and want to. IMO of no benefit and the money is better invested in the market.

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Very good advise to new people wanting to learn to trade! (wish I had seen this before Feb09) and before my pockets became lighter for next to no help at all.

hangseng said:

Sharing knowledge and information is the greatest gift to anyone, only good flows from it. 'Chie tsuo'

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I once watched this movie called Pay It Forward, well worth watching I think.

hangseng said:

Never do harm to anyone on the journey and offer others all the help you can. The life rewards outweigh any monetary aspect by a country mile.

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Great words If one thinks about it....

Re: New 2

sinajee said:

Hi Everyone

I am new to the game also, have done the courses, lost money and am back at square one.....well not quite!!!!! I am back to the drawing board, following suggestions here and back to the reading, having a go at the asx game and doing dismally.... but then again I guess that is all part of the process. What I was wondering is if there is anyone out there in a similar situation who would be interested in in getting together on skype or whatever, swapping notes etc, (even a group of people). I am finding it very hard at the moment to keep motivated and 2 (or more )heads are better than one. If anyone is interested pm me please. TIA

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I am a newbie and I am trying to learn everything I can, I would love to join your group

Re: Newbie Lessons - All your questions answered

Hi Guys,

I have never made a trade but am looking to dip my toe in the water and begin to learn.
I have set up a trading account today with bell direct and am just looking to put a few thousand dollars into the account and maybe buy shares in 2 - 3 companies.

I may sound like i am after quick money by saying this (and i am) but i would like to look at buying short term shares that potentially move 10% - 20% over a day or 2 (and yes i understand that this can be in either direction).

Whilst i dont have money to throw away i am happy to be somewhat risky with my initial investment but would like simple advice on the following

1. Where is the best place to begin to learn about what makes a share attractive and why shares move up and down

2. Does the type of volotile share im looking for fall into a category or have some trade industry lingo assoicated with it

3. Day trading i hear has large movements daily, what type of shares are these

I have a million questions but these should get me started.

Cheers

Hi Guys,

Another nubcake here been reading along here for a while and finally decided to sign up I couldnt agree more with what the others have said about the education thing. Thought i would add my : worth.

Before i went and bought any books i read alot of the posts here and have to say that reading them has helped me understand what the books are saying. If you take the time to educate yourself properly you can make a fair ammount within the first year (got in on a few companies just before the ex. date and got some free divs ). that said i get paid to look at the asx announcments / prices all day ( work in a share registry )

Looking forward to sharing the small ammount that i know

MindBoggled said:

Hi Guys,

Another nubcake here been reading along here for a while and finally decided to sign up I couldnt agree more with what the others have said about the education thing. Thought i would add my : worth.

Before i went and bought any books i read alot of the posts here and have to say that reading them has helped me understand what the books are saying. If you take the time to educate yourself properly you can make a fair ammount within the first year (got in on a few companies just before the ex. date and got some free divs ). that said i get paid to look at the asx announcments / prices all day ( work in a share registry )

Looking forward to sharing the small ammount that i know

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Im in the same position except dont work in a share registry. Its always good to see other peoples comments and interests!

Bah really need to use a spell checker this early in the morning.. i apologise now for the horrible engrish you will be subjected to

Re: Newbie Lessons - All your questions answered

Deanotrade said:

2. Does the type of volotile share im looking for fall into a category or have some trade industry lingo assoicated with it

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'Movers'...

Re: Newbie Lessons - All your questions answered

Hi
have you got any eod charting software, read the asx website to understand tha basics, read a few books that start the process of understanding how price reacts at previous support or resistance areas, and other things that move price? I may be wrong but I think you would save a lot of $$ by doing some paper trading and self education before you consider live trading.

Re: Newbie Lessons - Just a general direction question

Well it's a no trading day for me (happy 4th July to all the US folk) so sitting here scanning the forum at 4am and I got to thinking....(before the brain turns to mush)

I'm just wondering with all the experience here in this forum if anyone or better yet several people could offer THEIR idea on a direction for the new wannabee traders... or is there just too many different roads newbies can start down!

Lately I've been reading lots about you guys (the ones who actually REAL trade) and your trading the SPI and Futures, CFD this and CFD that blah blah blah (insert a wooosh sound effect) and you guys have obviously come a LOOOONG way since starting out.

I have personally found that with myself I head off in a direction with a set thing,theme,goal or objective and start learning it only end up heading another after reading more and more threads as time goes on. Soooo...

I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on a direction for new people, ok I know the old 'grab some books and read,read, read'... but WHAT? What should new people be trying to learn and get sorted...

for example...
-Terminology, or how the markets actually work...
-Learn Money Management and or Strategies...
-Should newbies learn to start with CFD's or Options or something else maybe?
-Is it really neccessary to have something like a trading plan (the likes of an AmiBroker system,do ALL traders have these systems worked out and back tested)...
-What markets should people start with? Are some easier than other to grasp or start out in.

I know trading is an individual road to go down but just wondering if there is some sort of general direction I guess or certain points/aspects that newbies should spend their time on achieving rather than aimlessly wondering and bouncing from idea to idea like myself in the wasteland that IS the Markets.


Am I wasting my time? Could it be better spent!
I myself am currently trying to get a system working in AmiBroker for the likes of Nasdaq which I follow religiously but wonder if this is where I should be spending my time. Also once I have something working and showing good resuts what should I do with it when it shows a buy signal, do I then apply the right strategy? (god only knows what that would be after hearing about you guys and your 'morphing') If there is some experience out there that could clear this up I know it would be appreciated by at least me if not many others.
*gone to the fridge for a RedBull*...

Good post. I am exactly in the same situation.

Hi just found these forums today, great info

many thanks to hangseng for his inspiring posts and many links.

Must be the ESP or something. I just post some comments today which basically stating the same questions every one have here.

WHERE IS THE REAL NEWBE FORUM WHERE YOU CAN GET ALL YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED ?

Or maybe we can start forum on : prices of condoms ? is the hitler right ? is my garbage to expensive ? are the williams sisters ok ? and so on and on and on....

I hope not.

Reading books id good, but even after reading books would be a good to see if any one also applying book techniques in trading.

And what is really difference trading ASX and american markets ?

What are real capital is good to have before jumping into trading ?

Do you invest all your capital or tray to spread..?

Hmm..

The problem is there are so many different things you could possibly learn and so many different trading and investing styles across so many different markets and on and on and on etc etc...

The more you start to learn, the more you will realise you don't know and the more you will realise you can't just find it for free on a discussion forum (key word - discussion)

You need to work out what your financial goals and timeframe are to find what it is you need to learn. Only then will you start find anything useful here IMHO.

daniboy01 said:

Good post. I am exactly in the same situation.

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as me? or did you mean someone esle's post

Hi All,
For what its worth I will give you my point of view. I have been trading for approx 3 years and have probably made every mistake in the book. The worst thing that happened was that I made money to easily when I started. This caused me to become over confident and did'nt use any sort discipline in my trading. I lost what I made and more. I have spent 1000's on coarses etc. Some have been good and some of them have been a rip off.
The penny dropped for me when I worked out what sort of trader I want to be and realized that trading isnt about being right all the time and your job as a trader is minisie your losses. I know you read this every where but its true your primary job as a trader is to be a "risk manager".
The other thing that I worked out is that I am not a good discretionary trader. I cant sit in front of a screen and trade real time. I find it boring and its not for me. What I now trade are 4 differant mechanical systems which i get a broker to execute because I am not discipled enough to execute the signals.
Ever since I worked it out what I am about and what suits me I have been profitable and I can sleep at night trading systems that have a 30% win rate and I know my losses will be small enough to make all of this work over the long term.
My advice to you all is to take the time to work out what will suit you. There is no "Holy Grail" or magic system.

Hopefully this helps. I know all of this has been mentioned before. You need except it put together a plan and work out what suits you. You need to educate your self about trading and money management and your self as a trader.

If any wants to have a chat about my journey I am happy to talk them. If you private me and we can go from there. I wont be offering any advice on systems etc because I am not good enough to do that, but I am happy to talk about the mistakes I made and to may be help you avoid them.

Vito

daniboy01 said:

Good post. I am exactly in the same situation.

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and how are you getting on? What are you working on at the moment to improve!

Medici said:

Must be the ESP or something. I just post some comments today which basically stating the same questions every one have here.

WHERE IS THE REAL NEWBE FORUM WHERE YOU CAN GET ALL YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED ?

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It's here but remember, the actual people here who trade have other things to do with their time than ALWAYS answer newb questions, while you wait for answers there's LOTS of threads to search/read... It can be frustrating to not get answers as we all do from time to time but think of how you will be if you succeed in trading, how much time would you spend repeating answers to newb

Medici said:

Reading books id good, but even after reading books would be a good to see if any one also applying book techniques in trading.

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I would imagine most, as they often say which books to read... books that helped them.

Medici said:

And what is really difference trading ASX and american markets ?

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From what I know, Volatility/Volume, sheer amount of Stock quantity

Medici said:

What are real capital is good to have before jumping into trading ?

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Seems that the more you start with the more you stand to make, also less likelyhood of emptying your account when you have your consecutive run of losers. Also trading with small amounts can be hard to clear a profit after Broker fees. But you should find this out by Virtual/Paper trading don't you think. I mean place a identical $100 trade and a $1000 and watch the outcome

Medici said:

Do you invest all your capital or tray to spread..?

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Im split on this, but I think 'not all' I have read people talking about commiting NO MORE than 60% of your total account at one time on active trades but... with strict money managment especially if your starting with a small amount. Say your starting account is $1000 you'd get NO where fast trading with 6 lots of $100 compared to say a $600 trade, I could be wrong though

acedrum said:

The problem is there are so many different things you could possibly learn and so many different trading and investing styles across so many different markets and on and on and on etc etc...

The more you start to learn, the more you will realise you don't know and the more you will realise you can't just find it for free on a discussion forum (key word - discussion)

You need to work out what your financial goals and timeframe are to find what it is you need to learn. Only then will you start find anything useful here IMHO.

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I would hope that most newbies here are not only searching the forum BUT ALSO reading a book currently.

Vito said:

Hi All,
The penny dropped for me when I worked out what sort of trader I want to be and realized that trading isnt about being right all the time and your job as a trader is minisie your losses. I know you read this every where but its true your primary job as a trader is to be a "risk manager".
What I now trade are 4 differant mechanical systems which i get a broker to execute because I am not discipled enough to execute the signals.
Ever since I worked it out what I am about and what suits me I have been profitable and I can sleep at night trading systems that have a 30% win rate and I know my losses will be small enough to make all of this work over the long term.
My advice to you all is to take the time to work out what will suit you. There is no "Holy Grail" or magic system.

Hopefully this helps. I know all of this has been mentioned before. You need except it put together a plan and work out what suits you. You need to educate your self about trading and money management and your self as a trader.

If any wants to have a chat about my journey I am happy to talk them. If you private me and we can go from there. I wont be offering any advice on systems etc because I am not good enough to do that, but I am happy to talk about the mistakes I made and to may be help you avoid them.

Vito

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I think that the bigest things newbies need is clear direction on WHAT to learn if thats doable.. it's probably about as clear as mud though im guessing

First of all, why are you posting in bold?
You screaming at us? LOL

warezwana said:

I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on a direction for new people, ok I know the old 'grab some books and read,read, read'... but WHAT? What should new people be trying to learn and get sorted...

for example...
Terminology, or how the markets actually work...
Learn Money Management and or Strategies...
Should newbies learn to start with CFD's or Options or something else maybe?
Is it really neccessary to have something like a trading plan (the likes of an AmiBroker system,do ALL traders have these systems worked out and back tested)...
What markets should people start with? Are some easier than other to grasp or start out in.

Click to expand...

I am a concept person, so always preferred to understand the underlying bigger picture. [Also really no choice, it was part of my course ]

Maybe the following structure
1) Research and then choose a market - equity/index, commodities, FX or fixed income
Complexity depends on the traders knowledge base and interest

2) Research instruments available to trade - spot, forwards, futures, options
Again the traders knowledge base will determine what to utilise.
Options are non linear derivatives, and have other factors that affect its valuation.
You can get away trading them without underlying knowledge, but they can be silent assassins

Start with that.

I have focussed on risk management - position sizing, exits, stop loss, type of trader - has taken nearly 12 months and have recognised I am not what I thought; stock selection - filtering out those that don't fit, and reading charts - particularly price movement and volume. So I haven't traded for 14 months whilst I learn. Still have stock.

A lot of have asked about mentors. I have a couple of associations with people who are learning but are ahead of me and one just helped the other day to cement supply and demand. I am also paying a subscrip 2 the chartist for educational purposes and would have made $ if I had traded. Nick's profitable trader dvd tied up a lot of loose ends.

How much - work out trades of diff sizes and the effect of commission and howmany % it is etc. My prelim work ties in Aust brokers need a position size about 2 to 3 times that for IB.

Like Vito, made $ years ago and thought I was good enough. It's confusing and the road ahead isn't mapped out. Read the thread about how many hours to be an expert.

Be persistent and realize good preparation beats good luck more often than not.

A lot of useful comments been made here. I agree 100% that you shouldn't pay a lot of money for education and I also agree that you need to work hard at it before you gain success - funnily enough no different to any other career.

I get a lot of people asking me 'what is the best way to be successful' and the resounding answer I give is simple: trend following.

1. Learn everything you can about trend following
2. Understand why trend following makes money
3. Read The Complete Turtle Trader by Michael Covel for some insights an inspiration
4. Understand why trend following makes money
5. Read up on Bill Dunn, John Henry, Ed Sykota - read between the lines, these guys have been successful for 35-years
6. Understand why trend following makes money
7. Appreciate the good and bad of trend following, accept both, then continue to do it.
8. Understand why trend following makes money

Get the main points from and you're 1/2 way across the line.

The other 1/2 comes from exhibiting persistence, tenacity and patience. Most people fail at the trading game because of these three traits. You need to understand what the trading journey entails. Combine that knowledge with a positive expectancy trend following system and you can't not fail over the longer term.

Nick





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mazzatelli1000 said:

First of all, why are you posting in bold?
You screaming at us? LOL

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It's helps in getting a reply na, just to help my replies stand out

mazzatelli1000 said:

I am a concept person, so always preferred to understand the underlying bigger picture. [Also really no choice, it was part of my course ]

Maybe the following structure
1) Research and then choose a market - equity/index, commodities, FX or fixed income
Complexity depends on the traders knowledge base and interest

2) Research instruments available to trade - spot, forwards, futures, options
Again the traders knowledge base will determine what to utilise.
Options are non linear derivatives, and have other factors that affect its valuation.
You can get away trading them without underlying knowledge, but they can be silent assassins

Start with that.

Click to expand...

1) been looking and playing with Nasdaq for the last 6 months so will probably stay with that, unless people think other markets are easier to start in.
2)I currently spend about 50-60hrs/week in front of books/computer, so I believe im doing all I can at the moment to progress.
Can I ask a dumb question here .... what are 'spots and forwards'? I did a little search but couldn't find anything to explain it.
thanks for the 1) and 2) I hope that will help some people other than just me.

Nick Radge said:

A lot of useful comments been made here. I agree 100% that you shouldn't pay a lot of money for education and I also agree that you need to work hard at it before you gain success - funnily enough no different to any other career.

I get a lot of people asking me 'what is the best way to be successful' and the resounding answer I give is simple: trend following.

1. Learn everything you can about trend following
2. Understand why trend following makes money
3. Read The Complete Turtle Trader by Michael Covel for some insights an inspiration
4. Understand why trend following makes money
5. Read up on Bill Dunn, John Henry, Ed Sykota - read between the lines, these guys have been successful for 35-years
6. Understand why trend following makes money
7. Appreciate the good and bad of trend following, accept both, then continue to do it.
8. Understand why trend following makes money

Get the main points from and you're 1/2 way across the line.

The other 1/2 comes from exhibiting persistence, tenacity and patience. Most people fail at the trading game because of these three traits. You need to understand what the trading journey entails. Combine that knowledge with a positive expectancy trend following system and you can't not fail over the longer term.

Nick

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Thanks for the reply Nick and everyone else that puts in effort to answer questions.
If I fail WHICH I dont intend too I have no idea what it will be from I know it wont be from lack of desire, enthusiasm, commitment.

So far my direction is, working on my 'Trading System' (been a tough journey to understand what to put in it but expecting my copy of 'Quantitive Trading System' which is due any day soon), and then backtesting/optimizing it. (mental note added - need to buy Data sometime soon) No doubt i'll place some results soon to ask what people think of the results as there is LOTS of unknown result figures that I have NO IDEA what they mean . I have saved a copy of one of 'Beamstas' and refer to it but understand that my goal is not to get mine identical, it's nothing more than a vague resemblance of results. I did read somewhere though that you shouldnt backtest on ALL your data (Universe) and that it should be spread into 2 sections!!!! A bit confusing but I guess the 'QTS book' will cover more on this when I read it.
Then I will move on to virtual trading it of course but in the mean time I am reading 'Trend Trading' by Guppy and then I also have 'Chart Trading' after that and then in my spare time apart from reading the forum everyday I'll be taking a look at trying to understand the 'Greeks' of Options (damn that 'WayneL' his knowledge is both scary and impressive) as I plan on using them on my Nasdaq list.
I have read a while ago several people suggesting one of your books Nick as a must read? Do you know what it could have been and where I can get it from if it really is one that should be read!

Anyway does all this sound like I am on the right direction?