NBN Rollout Scrapped

[bellenuit]

Oh the answer is if you want 4KTV, who the hell knows what that is?

It's a new standard that provides about 4 times the pixel density as todays HD. Although technically that would imply a requirement of 4 times the bandwidth to play the same length movie as the HD format, technology has comes to the rescue with a new compression format; H.265.

(I am out of my depth on this topic, so no questions to me please).

Next-Gen Video Format H.265 Is Approved, Paving The Way For High-Quality Video On Low-Bandwidth Networks

http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/25/h265-is-approved/

 

[NBNMyths]

Oh the answer is if you want 4KTV, who the hell knows what that is?
But I can see I have put you into hyperdrive.
So what if free to air radio goes to DAB over the NBN? How does that reflect on free to air radio?
Do you need an internetconnection to get radio transmitted through the NBN?
I can see why they would want to get rural Australia hooked up first, they will complain the most, because of lack of options.lol

4KTV is a new video standard with 4x the resolution of current HDTV. A lot of major movies have been filmed using the standard for the last 5 years or so, but it isn't widely used for broadcast anywhere yet.

There is also an upcoming standard called 8KTV, which, as the name implies is 8x the resolution of current HDTV.

Both standards will allow the adoption of larger and larger "TVs", and also allow user zooming to particular parts of an image with little degradation, depending on the screen size.

Give it 20 years, and you'll probably have a "TV" that fills your entire lounge room wall.

What has FTA radio got to do with the NBN? You could deliver that over the current network, why would the NBN make any difference?

Have you resorted to just making up implausible arguments against the NBN now?

 

[drsmith]

It will be very interesting when the real figures come out.

Not quiet the real figures yet, but the overall picture is becoming clearer.

Under the targets, the NBN Co has said it would pass a total of 341,000 homes and businesses (comprising 286,000 existing homes and 55,000 newly built homes) with the fibre portion of the network by June 30. However, as of December 31, only 72,400 premises had been passed.

It is expected that as many as 140,000 premises could now be slashed from that June target.

The revision, however, is not yet a fait accompli, and the NBN Co has this week been engaged in vigorous discussions with its construction partners on ways to ramp up the rollout to still achieve its targets.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...to-10-week-delay/story-e6frgaif-1226601033008

 

[sptrawler]

4KTV is a new video standard with 4x the resolution of current HDTV. A lot of major movies have been filmed using the standard for the last 5 years or so, but it isn't widely used for broadcast anywhere yet.

There is also an upcoming standard called 8KTV, which, as the name implies is 8x the resolution of current HDTV.

Both standards will allow the adoption of larger and larger "TVs", and also allow user zooming to particular parts of an image with little degradation, depending on the screen size.

Give it 20 years, and you'll probably have a "TV" that fills your entire lounge room wall.

What has FTA radio got to do with the NBN? You could deliver that over the current network, why would the NBN make any difference?

Have you resorted to just making up implausible arguments against the NBN now?

Thanks for the info on the t.v situation, I hadn't heard of it.

No I'm not trying to make up implausible arguments. I'm just trying to think of what services we currently recieve free, that might be charged for if delivered via internet.

 

[Smurf1976]

Radio - I don't have any hard facts, but I'd expect that a very large portion of total radio listening occurs in situations where it could not be received via the NBN. In the car where it's mobile, at work where the boss is OK with it as long as there's no cost to the company and so on.

Cars aren't going to be wired to the NBN that's for sure, and I doubt that too many bosses would be willing to pay the cost of having a radio running at work. In any event, if someone is listening via that means then they no longer have any reason to listen to their local station, or indeed any conventional station with advertising. The radio stations would be well aware of this and so aren't likely to go down the NBN track ever.

As for TV, I can see that it may happen but it will be content, not picture quality, that drives it.

People didn't go to digital TV because there's a better picture. They went digital in order to get extra stations, hence Tasmania had the highest takeup rate for many years since it was the only state with a digital-only mainstream channel.

Likewise it was similar with other things like CD taking over from records and tapes - it wasn't the audio quality but rather the convenience that pushed the change. And then when MP3 largely replaced CD, well that's a decrease in quality but convenience and price has driven the change.

I've had a HDTV at home for over 5 years now. But if I turn it on right now, the vast majority of broadcasts are not in HD because the networks haven't really adopted it on a major scale. Sure there's some, but it's nowhere near to being universally accepted.

TV via the NBN is quite likely a goer, but I'd expect the actual picture to be 1080 at best and possibly less. It's content that will drive it, not a minor improvement in picture quality.

 

[IFocus]

I'm a bit lost here...why would you not want high speed fibre?

Because you are scared to death of leaning to use any more technical than a abacus.

 

[IFocus]

Dont disagree we you often....but IMHO

As for TV, I can see that it may happen but it will be content, not picture quality, that drives it.

People didn't go to digital TV because there's a better picture. They went digital in order to get extra stations, hence Tasmania had the highest takeup rate for many years since it was the only state with a digital-only mainstream channel.

Tasmania might have good coverage here WA picture quality was what drove me to digital it was night and day.

Likewise it was similar with other things like CD taking over from records and tapes - it wasn't the audio quality but rather the convenience that pushed the change. And then when MP3 largely replaced CD, well that's a decrease in quality but convenience and price has driven the change.

A mate of mine paid $1500 for a CD player (80's we were sharing a house) for the quality. It was so good we just about demolished the house as we cranked it up and stood out side admiring the clarity.

TV via the NBN is quite likely a goer, but I'd expect the actual picture to be 1080 at best and possibly less. It's content that will drive it, not a minor improvement in picture quality.

I think it will be the access to the web as a whole where you pretty much have unlimited choice on what, when and who you want to watch. It will open up to any talented Joe Blow who can string together a feature about some thing sorta like Utube but on a much bigger scale.

 

[Smurf1976]

Tasmania might have good coverage here WA picture quality was what drove me to digital it was night and day.

TDT (Channel 10) was the reason for many to make the switch in Tas, noting that in this part of the world Ten is a "new" station which has only ever broadcast digitally.

UHF broadcasting was much the same when that came in. Prior to 1994, there was only one commercial TV station at each end of the state and they broadcast on VHF channels 6 (Hobart) and 9 (Launceston). But once they both started broadcasting to the whole state, the new transmitters were all UHF thus meaning that older VHF-only TV's couldn't receive the new station (and couldn't receive SBS either). So going from 2 channels to 4 provided an incentive to get a UHF TV (or at least cheat by using a VCR to convert the signal to VHF which is what many people did).

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I still reckon it is an ill conceived exercise by that intellectual midget Conroy.

It is so far behind budget and targets, the board are running for cover.

The only people in it's favour are it's progenitors and the basket weaving recipients of it's reach, few as they are in high class ALP Labor "doctor's wives" electorates.

The average person would be shocked if they knew how much money had been flushed down the dunnie on it's "rollout".

gg

 

[Smurf1976]

Tasmania might have good coverage here WA picture quality was what drove me to digital it was night and day.

TDT (Channel 10) was the reason for many to make the switch in Tas, noting that in this part of the world Ten is a "new" station which has only ever broadcast digitally (though in the past the other commercial stations did run some Ten programming which has since been discontinued).

UHF broadcasting was much the same when that came in. Prior to 1994, there was only one commercial TV station at each end of the state and they broadcast on VHF channels 6 (Hobart) and 9 (Launceston). But once they both started broadcasting to the whole state, the new transmitters were all UHF thus meaning that older VHF-only TV's couldn't receive the new station (and couldn't receive SBS either). So going from 2 channels to 4 provided an incentive to get a UHF TV (or at least cheat by using a VCR to convert the signal to VHF which is what many people did).

 

[drsmith]

Amongst the din of Labor consumed by itself, the real figures.

The unscheduled announcement–which was expected in early April–was made just as the labour party was embroiled in a bitter leadership spill.

The new NBN fibre cable rollout will fall short of the original corporate plan by about one third from 341,000 homes to between 190,000 and 220,000 homes.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/nbn-admits-to-three-month-delay-20130321-2gi7l.html

 

[Calliope]

Amongst the din of Labor consumed by itself, the real figures.

I suppose Quigley thought, that considering all Conroy's monumental failures topped by his censorship bill failure, his own failures would become buried among the wreckage.

 

[drsmith]

More on the rollout,

Senior engineering lecturer at RMIT University, Mark Gregory, says he expects NBN Co to downgrade its targets even further before the end of the year, which would have flow-on effects for the overall project's timing.

"If we continue down the path that we are going with external contractors doing the rollout, we'd expect [the rollout] could take five to 10 years longer than predicted," Dr Gregory said.

"We should expect it to cost anywhere between 50 to 100 per cent more than before."

Dr Gregory says there is evidence that NBN Co contractors are "cherry-picking" the areas they connect.

"Certainly I believe that we are seeing it happening already with the figures that we are getting from NBN Co," he said.

"The contractors are missing difficult areas, the rollout itself has already been planned as such that only areas that are easy to do are being cherry-picked."

But Dr Gregory says the problems could be fixed if the NBN Co goes ahead with creating its own construction arm to build the network.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-22/nbn-rollout-could-be-delayed-by-10-years3a-expert/4589520

 

[Smurf1976]

In other words, yet another example of why government should do things with an in-house workforce rather than spending more money for a worse result using contractors.

Blind Freddy could have seen a debacle coming as soon as they knew how the NBN was to be built - the outcome they're getting now is the exact same one that's happened in practically every other government project involving similar works. And it's the exact same situation, underground cabling, that I used to get paid a ridiculous amount (as a public servant at the time) to fix following contractor stuff ups.

Just wait until the quality of workmanship problems start to emerge. Just wait.... (been there, seen this game before - there will be problems especially with the method they are using to remove the old fibro pits. Also some depth of burial issues too, plus they haven't allowed enough in their estimates to cover unavoidable damage to other services in CBD areas particularly traffic lights which you can't avoid damaging under some circumstances due to the way the sensors are installed. Also there will most likely be a few compaction density issues simply because contractors on big projects like this tend not to disclose the full extent of their works to road owners, leaving them (ie councils and therefore ratepayers) to foot the bill some years later when it sinks).

On a positive note, it's a great way for some to grab hold of some money. That's your money and mine they're grabbing of course.

 

[drsmith]

Just wait until the quality of workmanship problems start to emerge.

A little off topic, but on a local scale, one of the worst examples I've seen of this is the resurfacing of Canning Road (Shire of Kalamunda in Western Australia). Rough as guts from day one. It's worse than the original seal it replaced. This, to the best of my knowledge was a contractor working on behalf of the shire.

Even the recent Great Eastern Highway upgrade which was a joint $380m Federal/State government road project between the Perth CBD and the airport has at least one section of that also has a rough finish. This was an alliance contract.

http://www.cityeastalliance.com.au/about-us/

 

[NBNMyths]

More on the rollout,



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-22/nbn-rollout-could-be-delayed-by-10-years3a-expert/4589520

Dr Gregory is a little bit "out there". While I agree with one of his points (that it would be a good idea for NBN Co to have their own workforce, at least in part), he has also suggested (seriously) that the Army be conscripted into performing the rollout! http://theconversation.com/the-army-should-rescue-the-nbn-12387

In that article, he criticised NBN Co on the basis of numerous factual errors (eg that they only had one fibre supplier and assorted statistical errors). I'm a little surprised by this. Given his position I would have thought he'd be more familiar with the project. He is also an advocate of NBN Co extending their fibre footprint beyond 93% to (essentially) everyone, and for them to abandon their "cheap" PON system for a much more expensive "point-to-point" fibre system.

Thus, I don't think anti-NBN people should be holding him up as someone to listen to!

 

[medicowallet]

Dr Gregory is a little bit "out there". While I agree with one of his points (that it would be a good idea for NBN Co to have their own workforce, at least in part), he has also suggested (seriously) that the Army be conscripted into performing the rollout! http://theconversation.com/the-army-should-rescue-the-nbn-12387

In that article, he criticised NBN Co on the basis of numerous factual errors (eg that they only had one fibre supplier and assorted statistical errors). I'm a little surprised by this. Given his position I would have thought he'd be more familiar with the project. He is also an advocate of NBN Co extending their fibre footprint beyond 93% to (essentially) everyone, and for them to abandon their "cheap" PON system for a much more expensive "point-to-point" fibre system.

Thus, I don't think anti-NBN people should be holding him up as someone to listen to!

Having lived up in GGs territory for quite a few years, I must say that conscripting the army is a FANTASTIC idea.

1. It would help skill them up for the real world when they "retire"
2. It would make them productive - ie, what do AJs do for 40 hours per week?
3. It would improve the image of the Army in the community and make them more visible.

and most importantly

4. it might mean it can be delivered somewhere within a decade of its proposed timeframe, and within $20 billion of its proposed cost.

Yes, it could make this very very poor project, slightly better.

MW

PS NBNMyths... how goes the rollout wrt timing and budget. I assume you think everything is ok with your puppy?

 

[CassieD]

I have it on good opinion from one of my Queensland ALP contacts , that the NBN is to be "modified".

This will free up money for the Flood and Cyclone Reconstruction.

The word "scrapped" will not be used.

"Modified" is the buzzword.

One can imagine a Dalek saying it...."Modified, modified, modified"

gg

Groucho Marx was a very funny man but said a lot of pertinent things

 

[NBNMyths]

PS NBNMyths... how goes the rollout wrt timing and budget. I assume you think everything is ok with your puppy?

The 3-month delay in the June 2013 figures is disappointing, but I suppose to be expected given what they've been saying for the last couple of months about Syntheo's areas of WA, SA and NT.

NSW, QLD, ACT, VIC and TAS are all on track AFAIK, and NBN Co have now relieved Syntheo of NT and are going to finish it themselves.

They have also added two more contractors in NSW and VIC in the last few months, being Visionstream and Downer EDI, again on-budget. I believe they are also looking at adding a second contractor in SA, being the power company which rolled out the Willunga trial site.

Whole project is still on budget, AFAIK.

 

[So_Cynical]

Groucho Marx was a very funny man but said a lot of pertinent things

Hilarious considering this thread was started in February 2011, Twenty Five months later and we are still waiting for GG's prediction to come good, be waiting a while longer i would think.