NBN Rollout Scrapped

nulla nulla · 3 August 2011

Because of the enthusiastic downloading of my offspring in July my internet usage exceeded the allowable download limit and was choked down to dial up speeds on the last billing day of the cycle which happened to be monday this week.

Try taking advantage of trade opportunities when you are still waiting for screens to download/open and the price has raced away from your attempted entry point and reached your proposed exit point before the first bloody window has finished downloading.

Turned the computer off and went to the movies. NBN can't come to Sydney fast enough for me.

dutchie · 4 August 2011

Scrap the NBN - put the money towards a fast train between Melbourne - Sydney - Brisbane.
Better value for Australia.

drsmith · 4 August 2011

dutchie said:
Scrap the NBN - put the money towards a fast train between Melbourne - Sydney - Brisbane.

It would cost a bit more.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/...h-as-108-billion/story-e6frfq80-1226107821693

Approximately $5k for every man, woman and child.

It also wouldn't be a vote winner in the west.

bellenuit · 5 August 2011

Not a replacement for the NBN, but interesting how communications technology is evolving in ways not previously imagined.

Wireless Data From Every Light Bulb

http://www.dump.com/2011/08/03/wireless-data-from-every-light-bulb-video/

dutchie · 11 August 2011

NBN will be scrapped - we just can't afford to spend that sort of money.

Garpal Gumnut · 11 August 2011

If Jac Nasser and Ralph Norris are against the waste of the NBN, it is time for the government to listen, and abandon this folly.

And folly it is.

http://smarthouse.com.au/Wireless_And_Networking/Broadband/P9J9X6B9

gg

Two of the most experienced Australian business executives, BHP Billiton chairman Jac Nasser and Ralph Norris the outgoing chief executive of the Commonwealth Bank, have slammed the NBN which is set to cost tax payer $36B.

After announcing a rebate on capacity chargers in the early days of the NBN's establishment, Former Ford CEO Nasser was telling the American Chamber of Commerce audience in Sydney that the $36 billion being spent on the project was not an appropriate allocation of capital in Australia.

He said "When you try and marry large capital expenditures with a fast-moving pace of technology change, I think that is fraught with risk," he told an American Chamber of Commerce in Australia event.

"I am always concerned when a project such as this is driven by government rather than private enterprise. I worry about that. Little warning signs come up in my head."

Ralph Norris, the outgoing chief executive of the Commonwealth Bank, joined the criticism of the NBN saying governments did not have a strong track record of operating commercial ventures. "I've never been a great fan of government's running commercial or business entities," he told The Australian. "What ends up happening is that they end up getting run on a non-commercial basis."

Mr Norris said the cost of the NBN was a major investment that needed to be supported by a business case: "As for the NBN, there is a lot of infrastructure being made redundant and you have to ask yourself if that is cost-effective."

medicowallet · 11 August 2011

nulla nulla said:
Turned the computer off and went to the movies. NBN can't come to Sydney fast enough for me.

So that they can download the more expensive, less of a quota, faster?

NBN plans are more expensive with less capacity.

NBN can't be scrapped fast enough for me.

nulla nulla · 11 August 2011

Garpal Gumnut said:
If Jac Nasser and Ralph Norris are against the waste of the NBN, it is time for the government to listen, and abandon this folly.

And folly it is.

http://smarthouse.com.au/Wireless_And_Networking/Broadband/P9J9X6B9

gg

You are texting tongue in cheek, eh gg.

Jack Nasser who was leveraged out of Ford for almost sending it broke and a kiwi that ran a bank famous for gouging fees out of the Australian populace are qualified to tell Australians what is good for us now and long term. Good one. pee myself laughing.

sails · 11 August 2011

nulla nulla said:
You are texting tongue in cheek, eh gg.

Jack Nasser who was leveraged out of Ford for almost sending it broke and a kiwi that ran a bank famous for gouging fees out of the Australian populace are qualified to tell Australians what is good for us now and long term. Good one. pee myself laughing.

And if they had endorsed the NBN, I think you would be on your soap box crowing about it...

Yes, it seems to be the labor/green way. Discredit anyone who doesn't agree with them...

NBNMyths · 11 August 2011

Garpal Gumnut said:
If Jac Nasser and Ralph Norris are against the waste of the NBN, it is time for the government to listen, and abandon this folly.
Two of the most experienced Australian business executives, BHP Billiton chairman Jac Nasser and Ralph Norris the outgoing chief executive of the Commonwealth Bank, have slammed the NBN which is set to cost tax payer $36B.

After announcing a rebate on capacity chargers in the early days of the NBN's establishment, Former Ford CEO Nasser was telling the American Chamber of Commerce audience in Sydney that the $36 billion being spent on the project was not an appropriate allocation of capital in Australia.

He said "When you try and marry large capital expenditures with a fast-moving pace of technology change, I think that is fraught with risk," he told an American Chamber of Commerce in Australia event.

"I am always concerned when a project such as this is driven by government rather than private enterprise. I worry about that. Little warning signs come up in my head."

Ralph Norris, the outgoing chief executive of the Commonwealth Bank, joined the criticism of the NBN saying governments did not have a strong track record of operating commercial ventures. "I've never been a great fan of government's running commercial or business entities," he told The Australian. "What ends up happening is that they end up getting run on a non-commercial basis."

Mr Norris said the cost of the NBN was a major investment that needed to be supported by a business case: "As for the NBN, there is a lot of infrastructure being made redundant and you have to ask yourself if that is cost-effective."
And folly it is.

http://smarthouse.com.au/Wireless_And_Networking/Broadband/P9J9X6B9

gg

I'm sure Jac and Ralph are good businessmen in their respective fields, but surely you don't think a Govt should be ignoring all the expert opinion on the NBN, and abandoning it on the basis of statements by two people who -by their own admission- know very little about the NBN, and have no experience in the IT or communications fields?

Let me reverse the rolls. Let's say Bill Gates said to Jac Nasser "I don't really know much about it, but on paper I question BHP's $13bn investment in the Canadian Jansen potash project. You should cancel it".

Would you seriously suggest BHP accept that advice, or would you think they should be taking their advice from experts in the field, and perhaps people running successful businesses in the field?

So with that, I take your Jac Nasser and Ralph Norris and raise you:

Eric Schmidt (Google CEO):
“…Australia is leading the world in understanding the importance of fibre. .... the folks in the cities – will have gigabit or equivalent service using fibre, and the other 7% will be handled through wireless services of a nature of LTE. This is leadership. And again, from Australia, which I think is wonderful.”[ref]

Steve Wozniak (Apple founder and on the board of various IT companies):
"The NBN is a great model…When I was here a few years ago, the attitude [in terms of broadband] was ‘Telstra is letting us down! It’s expensive and slow and the company is not making Australia number one in the world… I think the Australian Government finally recognised that recently and that is why it is putting in this network” [ref]

Phil Cronin (Managing Director of Intel):
“It’s now time to move beyond debate… the NBN has the potential to deliver significant long term benefits to consumers and small businesses alike”[ref]

Vittorio Colao (CEO Vodafone Worldwide):
“Australia is taking a very bold step….I honestly think that the vision that in this country the Government has is a very healthy one”[ref]

Dr Philip McCrea (CEO of AC3, former Managing director of Softway and Business Development Manager at CSIRO):
“Our belief is that Australia will benefit enormously from the introduction of the NBN”[ref]

Dr Gordon Bell (head of research at Microsoft)
"The NBN is essential infrastructure that needs to be put in place. I admire Australia for moving ahead to build such a network."[ref]

The list goes on......

NBNMyths · 11 August 2011

medicowallet said:
So that they can download the more expensive, less of a quota, faster?

NBN plans are more expensive with less capacity.

NBN can't be scrapped fast enough for me.

Going on currently available NBN plans, the above statement applies to very few people. For most, the NBN is faster, cheaper and with bigger data allowances than they currently get. By most, I mean:

Anyone using Telstra Bigpond, be it cable or ADSL/ADSL2+.
Anyone with another ISP but living outside the 3rd-party ADSL2+ footprint (ie: getting their ADSL2+ via Telstra wholesale)
Anyone on ADSL1
Anyone on wireless
Anyone on satellite

Given that Telstra Bigpond alone have 47.8% broadband market share, Optus cable has <10%, DoDo have <3% and TPG only even offer ADSL2 in 400/5000 exchanges, it's pretty clear that the vast majority of Australians will be able to get bigger, faster and cheaper communication services than they get now.

The only people who may get lower data allowances (but at higher speeds) for the same money would be those on the "unlimited" ADSL2+ plans (eg TPG/DoDo), and some Optus cable customers. That said though, Optus, TPG and DoDo are yet to release their NBN pricing.

So_Cynical · 11 August 2011

sails said:
And if they had endorsed the NBN, I think you would be on your soap box crowing about it...

Yes, it seems to be the labor/green way. Discredit anyone who doesn't agree with them...

And if they had criticised the NBN, I think you wouldn't be on your soap box crowing about it...

Yes, it seems to be the liberal/conservative/redneck way, disregard anyone who doesn't agree with them.

dutchie · 12 August 2011

The future is mobility, mobility, mobility...

NBNMyths · 12 August 2011

dutchie said:
The future is mobility, mobility, mobility...

The NBN does not preclude mobility. WiFi will boom under the NBN, because you'll finally be able to connect your WiFi router to a network that can cope with the available speeds.

Stats from the ABS clearly show that data over fixed networks is growing 16x faster than data over cellular networks. The same stats show that fixed lines are growing at 2x the rate of growth of new dwellings. In other words, the growth in wireless is not coming at the expense of fixed networks.

92% of iPad data is delivered via WiFi on fixed networks, not mobile networks.

With the exception of the DIDO vapourware, which is at least a decade away from reality if it actually works as the promoter says (which is hardly a given, and disputed by many in the field), it is the consensus amongst electrical engineers and telco experts that there is no wireless technology that can cope with fixed-network replacement. Even the DIDO people don't make this claim of their vapourware.
http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/why-not-wireless/
http://people.eng.unimelb.edu.au/rtucker/publications/files/tja10043.pdf

sptrawler · 12 August 2011

So_Cynical said:
And if they had criticised the NBN, I think you wouldn't be on your soap box crowing about it...

Yes, it seems to be the liberal/conservative/redneck way, disregard anyone who doesn't agree with them.

Most people are not against the N.B.N they are against the cost verses benefits.
It's the same as the carbon tax, most people want clean energy( I have solar hot water and solar panels, recycle my grey water) it is just not at any cost.
The government is throwing away money like a person with 6 arms ($130B in debt from $20B surplus).
These grandiose ideas are fine but they have to be payed for, it won't effect me personaly, but I know it will have a huge effect on the people who can least afford it.
Nothing the government has done up untill now has been very successful. Therefore on their track record why take on bigger and bigger projects when they have had little success with small ones.
With the carbon tax, why not build a pilot power plant of say 100MW, to prove the viability. Before jumping in the deep end.
Why not build fibre to the node and fibre to the C.B.D and business hubs the businesses could probably self fund fibre to their building if they required the speed.

dutchie · 12 August 2011

sptrawler said:
Most people are not against the N.B.N they are against the cost verses benefits.
It's the same as the carbon tax, most people want clean energy( I have solar hot water and solar panels, recycle my grey water) it is just not at any cost.
The government is throwing away money like a person with 6 arms ($130B in debt from $20B surplus).
These grandiose ideas are fine but they have to be payed for, it won't effect me personaly, but I know it will have a huge effect on the people who can least afford it.
Nothing the government has done up untill now has been very successful. Therefore on their track record why take on bigger and bigger projects when they have had little success with small ones.
With the carbon tax, why not build a pilot power plant of say 100MW, to prove the viability. Before jumping in the deep end.
Why not build fibre to the node and fibre to the C.B.D and business hubs the businesses could probably self fund fibre to their building if they required the speed.

Good post sptrawler.

That all makes a lot of sense - pity this government has none!

dutchie · 12 August 2011

NBNMyths said:
The NBN does not preclude mobility. WiFi will boom under the NBN, because you'll finally be able to connect your WiFi router to a network that can cope with the available speeds.
[/url]

I would be happy with my current speeds on wireless. I would not have a land line (even if it meant greater speed). I think a lot of people would say the same.

sails · 13 August 2011

Is there anything about this government that is not downright deceitful?

From the Age by Clancy Yeates: Treasury warned of risk to taxpayers on broadband

PREVIOUSLY secret documents show the federal government was warned that the national broadband network would expose taxpayers to ''considerable financial risks'', only weeks after the ambitious high-speed internet plan was unveiled.

Treasury told the government it would have to consider shielding the network from private-sector rivals to help it be viable.

No wonder this government want to control the media so that their lies and dishonesty are not made known to the public. Shame on them.

It beggers belief that a government who is supposed to be representing the people and in the best interests of Australia is allowed to continue these horrendous and often deceitful decisions which they try to keep "secret" so the public don't find out.

I think the rant has ended, but the steam is still coming out...

todster · 13 August 2011

I wonder if people for and against put there age next to there comment we would see a pattern.

So_Cynical · 13 August 2011

Just watching the ABC 24 news channel and they were showing a speech by 1 vote Tony to the WA Liberal party transmitted via broadband, so there was the usual small amount of pixellation and low video resolution on my big HD plasma...funny thing was just 2 or 3 minutes into his diatribe about how we didn't need the NBN the sound dropped out and the picture started freezing..he he.

NBN Rollout Scrapped

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