This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

NBN Rollout Scrapped


Not very many spots on the heatmap in my area. I just did a download/upload test and I have 5Mb/s and 700Kb/s.
My plan is a Telstra ADSL2+ 17,329Kbs/800Kbs service.

Mt exchange is about 1.5 km away. I reckon I must have a few issues .

Shaker
 
Some more reports out in the AFR today.

Firstly, at least 2.5 million premises contracted for FTTP under the previous government.

http://www.afr.com/p/technology/nbn_direct_link_ups_for_premises_KtBZwiFGYupLDR64ZJSQNL

Secondly, an article about the rollout itself (What went wrong with the NBN, subscription only).

The National Broadband Network Company was to be the Labor government’s crowning achievement in the vein of Medicare and the Snowy River Dam Project. But four years on the reality is murkier.

http://www.afr.com/p/national/what_went_wrong_with_the_nbn_OOFd2s5eB4KLuceU4Cp9QO
 
Now that the Coalition has stopped releasing any information on refugee boat arrivals, .......
They're serious about stopping them, unlike Labor.


http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...s-on-asylum-boat-arrivals-20130920-2u5t5.html

This is probably a discussion for the asylum seeker thread.
 
They're serious about stopping them, unlike Labor.



http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...s-on-asylum-boat-arrivals-20130920-2u5t5.html

This is probably a discussion for the asylum seeker thread.

My point being why the secrecy. Oppositions always love open Government till they're in Government. Labor have been just as bad.

Hopefully MT will provide full access to every report generated under his direction, though I'm sure he'll sit on anything too adverse just like any good minister.

Just for interest sake Dr Smith, have you checked out the heat map for your area?
 
My point being why the secrecy. Oppositions always love open Government till they're in Government. Labor have been just as bad.
On this, they did flag the possibility before the election and at the moment, it is still just that.

I doubt secrecy is the objective in any case. They're not going to be able to keep boat arrivals secret.

Hopefully MT will provide full access to every report generated under his direction, though I'm sure he'll sit on anything too adverse just like any good minister.
I think there's already something left in the chair from the previous occupant, slightly pressed and farted upon.

Just for interest sake Dr Smith, have you checked out the heat map for your area?
Out of curiosity, I did.
 
Sri Kosuri from Harvard has contacted me to bring to the attention of posters on this thread, some recent storage in DNA which will make metallic servers obsolete.

It is nicely summarised in the following article.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/134672-harvard-cracks-dna-storage-crams-700-terabytes-of-data-into-a-single-gram


I would predict that transfer of data using biological systems will not be far behind.

What a waste, all this money on the NBN, if that turns out to be the case.

Long live the mighty amoeba.

gg
 

Oh I've read many tech articles that show lab test results and the amazing tech that will come of it. IBM have had many such successes and much of the discoveries take a good 20 years to commercialise.

Speed of light in a fibre optic cable ~ 200,000,000 M/S

Speed of nerve impulses - at best 119 M/S

Sort of sums up the difference between FTTP and FTTN nicely GG
 
There's also this out this morning in the AFR (first part quoted below),


http://www.afr.com/p/australia2-0/telstra_targets_billion_dollar_nbn_X8Wul0CVmC2TossqGfpqMP

In reference to an article from last week,


I'm able to access the second article above this morning, without subscription. It's quiet a long read.

 

Well with the Cherry Picking in play for the cities the NBN is not going to have the income to cross subsidise the country areas without ongoing budget support. Who'd want to be involved with that kind of debacle?

We're heading for a limited competition in the cities with large MDUs maybe having 2 or 3 companies equipment in the basemet and certain level of choice, while those not on the wireless / sat NBN will get??
 
the NBN is not going to have the income to cross subsidise the country areas without ongoing budget support. Who'd want to be involved with that kind of debacle?

Its the liberals monkey now. The ~60,000 cabinets with each containing ~12car batteries for back up power, and in the UK its been reported on hot days, they shut down due to excessive heat. Therefore given Australia's climate 60,000 cabinets will need to be refrigerated.

I'm not sure if the libs have thought this through. The irony is this could be a pink batts type of debacle.

I could go into the technical analysis in great detail, but you get the idea.
 

You've hit the nail on the head. That's exactly what Alan Kohler said later today:
http://www.businessspectator.com.au...l&utm_content=432134&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=


Not only will the Coalition's 'NBN' be late and obsolete, but it will also be a financial disaster.




Yep, in the UK they shut down, while in the US the "vaults" (FTTN cabinets) catch fire:
http://www.fierceiptv.com/story/real-estate-lobby-calls-for-u-verse-fire-probe/2008-02-19

 
Warning - very long post.

I've been there, done that when it comes to putting cable (power and communications) into the ground both through existing infrastructure (conduits, pits etc) and new builds. I'll say this....

If your own business is primarily not related to cabling, and the job is straightforward and "generic" in nature (eg running a power cable from the electricity network in the street to a house / shop / warehouse etc) then you can go ahead and contract someone to do the lot. Provided that you use someone suitably qualified (electrical contractor or the holder of a communications cabling license as appropriate) and let them do the lot, then things will generally go according to plan. They'll typically sub-contract the excavation work and any asbestos removal, and will install the new infrastructure themselves in most cases (since they are legally responsible for it).

But if your business is effectively the entire industry, or most of it, then things are very different. You won't easily find someone competent to take on the whole task themselves, since by definition they aren't really in that line of work to start with (since you are the whole industry). Secondly, you'll get the "out of sight, out of mind" problem in a big way when it comes to underground works - and in this case practically everything is underground and thus impractical to inspect after the work is done.

Planning is another thing. Running a cable from the street to a single building is pretty straightforward. Give the contractor a plan of the property showing the preferred route and location of other services. Then you're up and running - the contractor will already know where the switchboard or communications termination is going to be since they're doing that too (or at least connecting to an existing one).

But where are the plans for the NBN? I just can't believe that anyone has handed a comprehensive set of plans to the contractors detailing everything that's required. That means that, in practice, the end result is largely being determined by the workers in hard hats building whatever they see fit in order to get from point A to point B. That's where the real trouble starts.

If they are your own employees, and thus accountable directly to the company for time, materials, public complaints, safety and the end result then it's reasonably easy to keep things in line as long as you've got decent workers.

But if they are a sub-contractor of a sub-contractor of a contractor with nobody having an actual plan, nobody really being accoutable and all the major decisions being made on the job by those hauling the cables, driving excavators and so on well that's a recipe for disaster. You end up with a situation where nobody gives a damn what happens, so long as they don't get pulled up by Workplace Standards (or the equivalent in each state) and they get paid. Dig that trench, throw some conduit in, fill it up and move on. Asbestos? No worries - just throw it on the back of the truck. Properly laying the conduit? Why waste time with proper bedding or even glue when nobody's around to see what's going on. Nuclear test of compaction? What's that! The Council won't likely come along until long after the job is finished, and they'll never track down who was responsible anyway so no need to worry about that one. Reinstatement? If it looks good then she'll be right. The cable kinked, was barked or suffered some other problem during installation? No worries - out of sight, out of mind and you can always blame any of the other sub-contractors or, if it's going to be a while until it's used, just blame rats or some other utility (gas, power, water etc) and say it was fine when it was installed.

It's akin to getting on a plane in Melbourne. The Captain thinks the destination is Perth but isn't concerned since he's paid as long as the plane takes off and subsequently lands somewhere. The First Officer thinks the destination is Darwin but isn't fussed since he's just a labour hire pilot and will be paid for overnight accommodation if required. The man loading the bags thought it was the flight to Los Angeles and loaded the bags for that flight onto this plane, which isn't capable of flying that far anyway (a point he noted, thought was odd but dismissed since it's not his problem). Meanwhile another baggage handler has loaded your bags onto the real flight to LA, which will be taking off just before yours. The flight attendants think they're heading to Brisbane. The passengers think they're flying to Auckland, as do the airline's check-in staff. And the man putting the fuel in the plane, only put in enough to get to Adelaide because he gets in trouble if there's too much fuel on board (excess weight). That being so, as a passenger you'd be better off if that plane stayed on the ground and didn't go anywhere.

That analogy is awfully similar to what NBNCo are trying to achieve - building something which unavoidably lacks anything other than a broad concept plan at a higher level, reliant on workers "on the ground" who also don't know what's going on (the inevitable consequence of so many sub-sub-sub-contractors being involved) and who don't really care anyway since they'll be paid for whatever they do regardless of whether it's right or wrong. It's a recipe for problems, problems and more problems - all of which will end up being fixed by time and cost blow outs.

So the bottom line is that to properly build something like the NBN, NBNCo itself needs to be actively involved in physical construction. They don't need to necessarily do everything themselves, but there needs to be an NBN employee on site during all critical works. Realistically, they'd be wise to take direct control of cable hauling and conduit installation with an NBN foreman in charge of contractors engaged to provide physical labour only (paid by time on the job). They could outsource excavations etc where required, so long as actually installing the new conduit involves at least one NBN employee "on the tools" down in the trenches. Asbestos removal? No real hassle outsourcing that, provided that they do a lot of random inspections, sampling etc and that each contractor agrees to be filmed at any time without further notice. Do all that and it will cost less, and you'll actually get the thing built to meet real world requirements.

So long as NBNCo are focused solely on paperwork and not involved in construction they will continue to receive poor value and encounter problems. You can outsource some things, but not to the point that NBNCo (which largely is the industry in this case) loses, or more likely doesn't gain in the first place, sound knowledge in house. As it stands now, they are at the mercy of whatever the contractors give them - price, time and quality.

Could Telstra do it better? That depends how they go about it, but they do have a reasonable base if knowledge in house to start with. They'll likely regret some of the job cutting they've done, but they still have reasonable knowledge from which to build up. NBNCo would still be at the contractor's (Telstra) mercy to some extent, but at least Telstra is capable of doing it, leaving only the question of whether they will actually do it properly - and that comes down to a question of final ownership. As with any contractor, they have an incentive to cut corners with quality if

So, there's 3 real options if they want a quality outcome.

1. Build it with NBNCo staff working alongside contractors on-site. It's not as contractually difficult as it may seem, so long as the contractors are engaged under appropriate terms (effectively labour and equipment hire).

2. Let Telstra build it with Telstra owning the completed network as a regulated asset. That is, NBNCo effectively rents the working network from what I'll refer to as "Telstra Network", with any "Telstra Retail" use of the system going via NBNCo the same as any other retailer would do. In practice, this would likely end with Telstra itself being split at the corporate level - a utility company that owns the NBN and makes capacity available to others, and a service company that sells communication services. Any problems with the network are a matter for the owner, such that construction quality liabilities don't sit with NBNCo.

3. NBNCo aquires Telstra's existing network business in its entirety. Cables, vehicles, staff - the whole lot. Then get this aquired Telstra division to build the NBN. The only real difference to option 2 being in ownership of the completed network - Telstra versus NBNCo ownership.
 
NBN Co used to have an employee at each site monitoring the construction. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but I presume it is. I'm sure they'd tell you if you asked.
 

Great post Smurf.

I get the feeling MT is going to provide some lucrative contracts to Telstra to get the FTTN ball rolling. Still I do wonder if they can cope with the extra work. They seem to have MSDs (mass service disruptions) and high workload areas covering 99% of the country (well it feels like it). They've had an MSD running for a few months now that covers the Greater Sydney metro area along with a lot of the central coast. Repair times have blown out, and Telstra are not liable for any form of compensation once the MSD is declared.

I think option 3 might be an easier sell - maybe via a split of the shares so that you own Telstra NBN who will be the monopoly supplier of comms in the country and Telstra retail who provide services over Telstra NBN. It gets around the issues of copper last mile ownership, and shareholders benefit from still having part ownership of a company that provides a steady income stream.

The tricky part will be determining how much Govt ownership will be of Telstra NBN since they'll be pumping something like $20-30B of funding into it. It will be very interesting to see who MT can get on board NBN now. With the treatment they gave the high level staff, Labor looking to get the knife in at every chance, you'd really have to have a masochistic streak to put ya hand up for a high level position with them.
 
Warning - very long post.

I've been there, done that when it comes to putting cable (power and communications) into the ground both through existing infrastructure (conduits, pits etc) and new builds. I'll say this....

I did cable and Satellite for a few years...contractors on the whole are capable of running cable and doing a good job of it, due to the size of the NBN gig i would imagine that having an assessment team going along behind the contractors and paying the contractors based on those assessments would be the go.
 
NBN Co used to have an employee at each site monitoring the construction. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but I presume it is. I'm sure they'd tell you if you asked.

I've seen a few NBN works crews on the job (Hobart and suburbs).

Either the NBN employee was dressed in the same uniform as the contractors, was doing actual work not just monitoring and chose to turn a blind eye to a kink in the cable, or they weren't there. That was night works, inner Hobart CBD area.

I noted two safety breaches and one instance of possible cable damage, all in the time it took me to walk past.
 
Not only will the Coalition's 'NBN' be late and obsolete, but it will also be a financial disaster.

I preferred labors NBN but I just couldn't see it being built at all, or anywhere near budget. Liberals NBN I don't have much faith in either and it looks a messy joke right now with a lot of potential problems. Imo labor flucked its implementation in the first 3 years and now its libs turn to mess it up a little more.
NBN good idea but thats where it ends.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more...