skc
Goldmember
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- 12 August 2008
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Agree with most of the above, I reckon its great buying at current prices.
Can you put on the devil's hat and see what might be the sell thesis?
The short's been rising pretty much since the stock peaked >$2 about a year ago, and it remains one of the most shorted stocks on ASX despite the share price being half of the peak. So someone is reasonably convinced of the downside. Not saying they are/will be right... just wondering if you can see what they see.
http://www.shortman.com.au/stock?q=MYX
Some of the known risk factors I am aware of: DOJ investigation, political pressures on generic margins, potential competitor product launch etc.
Yes I am aware that most of these risks I mentioned are fairly generic (pun intended).... but just wondering if you see anything else.
The remaining stocks on the Top Ten List have Hold recommendations although both Western Areas Limited (WSA) and Mayne Pharma (MYX) have double digit two-year earnings growth forecasts (+61.3% for WSA and +20.9% for MYX.)
I topped up yesterday at $0.985. 2,035 shares. I brought some back in January at $1.23.
Cochlear and JB Hi-Fi were once heavily shorted. Can anyone think of examples of where Shorters get it wrong?
http://www.thebull.com.au/premium/a/68221-opportunities-in-top-10-shorted-stocks.html
From the article:
The shorting maybe bad news for the share price in the short term but in the medium term, MYX will recover. You can tell me that I am wrong if you like.
Can you put on the devil's hat and see what might be the sell thesis?
The short's been rising pretty much since the stock peaked >$2 about a year ago, and it remains one of the most shorted stocks on ASX despite the share price being half of the peak. So someone is reasonably convinced of the downside. Not saying they are/will be right... just wondering if you can see what they see.
http://www.shortman.com.au/stock?q=MYX
Some of the known risk factors I am aware of: DOJ investigation, political pressures on generic margins, potential competitor product launch etc.
Yes I am aware that most of these risks I mentioned are fairly generic (pun intended).... but just wondering if you see anything else.
The operational leverage at play here is quite large...
Operating leverage truly is a double edged sword.
So from a little bit of digging, the price weakness seems to be industry wide. The main argument appears to be that with the FDA ramping up approvals that will reduce the time that new generics have no generic competitors, as well as increase competition. On top of this, buying groups have reduced the number of large buyers in the US. How does this play out, Klogg, in your opinion?
Here's MYX ttm with a few generic comps from India (Teva, Sun Pharma, Lupin, Dr Reddy and Aurobindo). It's certainly not MYX specific, they've copped a belting in the last 12 months, but they ran the hardest in the 12 before that.
Cochlear and JB Hi-Fi were once heavily shorted. Can anyone think of examples of where Shorters get it wrong?
The shorting maybe bad news for the share price in the short term but in the medium term, MYX will recover. You can tell me that I am wrong if you like.
2010 EPS 2.6cps
2017 1h 5.2cps
If that's empire building, build on.
The high gross margin is an invitation for competition... more on this point below.
So a company like MYX needs an ongoing renewal of drugs to keep up sales and profits, let alone growth. Acquiring these drugs will require additional capital. So while a short term sugar hit from new drugs will see EPS growth over the forward estimate periods (most analysts do 3 year out), the earning profile falls off quickly thereafter and overly generous assumptions on terminal value can prove terminal. The question is whether the process of portfolio renewal can be financially self-sustaining...
So from a little bit of digging, the price weakness seems to be industry wide. The main argument appears to be that with the FDA ramping up approvals that will reduce the time that new generics have no generic competitors, as well as increase competition. On top of this, buying groups have reduced the number of large buyers in the US. How does this play out, Klogg, in your opinion?
And what about the DoJ investigation into price collusion? The Americans love doling out large penalties to naughty corporations.
Well I do not know much about the company but looking at their last released half year report while the company showed a strong profit, the operating cash flow was a hugely negative figure.
Does anybody with more knowledge care to try and make a case for accounting fraud/overstated earnings?
Also as has already been pointed out on this thread a lot of their equity is goodwill and other intangibles. The NTA is tiny in comparison to total liabilities. Any future goodwill write-downs could decimate the balance sheet.
This is on top of all the industry headwinds already discussed. There just seem to be too many red flags.
Can you put on the devil's hat and see what might be the sell thesis?
to casual observers like me who spend 20 minutes coming up with immature theories and asking stupid questions.
Thanks. Great chart.
I have a theory that generic drug companies don't deserve a high multiple. Yes they earn great margins on new products after initial launch and during the ramp up phase, but sooner or later drug sale plateaus, then enter new generic competitions and soon it is just competing on price / marketing efforts. Look at ACR (which has a single generic drug in the market) paints the picture of how the "life cycle" of a generic might evolve.
So a company like MYX needs an ongoing renewal of drugs to keep up sales and profits, let alone growth. Acquiring these drugs will require additional capital. So while a short term sugar hit from new drugs will see EPS growth over the forward estimate periods (most analysts do 3 year out), the earning profile falls off quickly thereafter and overly generous assumptions on terminal value can prove terminal. The question is whether the process of portfolio renewal can be financially self-sustaining...
The shorts may not be correct but they will definitely have a solid reason for doing so. That's why I asked what's their thesis... it's free research they've done on your investment. The investor can then decide whether it is something they need to take into account or something that offers them an opportunity for cheap entry.
Klogg said:Not sure where the accounting fraud comes from.... They even stripped out the Forrest Labs settlement and clearly identified 'underlying earnings'.
Seriously?!
skc, if what you post is "immature theories and stupid questions", i must be several degrees more of an ignoramous than I imagined! (and i already saw myself as having very little knowledge or wisdom!)
what do you see mate? Take the veil out and show the asset. Sorry for the pun. I really liked this thread and 15 minutes investment from SKC. What could be the hourly rate for SKC if 15 mins deliver so much? Maybe next to Mackenzie's rate.Dam it I'm in trouble. All the smart kids are here and they just don't see what I see.
what do you see mate? Take the veil out and show the asset. Sorry for the pun. I really liked this thread and 15 minutes investment from SKC. What could be the hourly rate for SKC if 15 mins deliver so much? Maybe next to Mackenzie's rate.
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