My Good Battle Plan

burglar said:

Hi Julia,
A strange question!?

I have a fair amount of willpower!
I can do anything I set my mind to.

The hard part is setting my mind to do something!


A friend once told me that Depression is like a well.
You need to get out fast!
I replied that I was going to stay awhile and have a good look around.
Reason - I'm only here once!

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You crack me up Burglar! Best of luck, I can empathise with you.

burglar said:

Hi Julia,
A strange question!?

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Not really. I asked because, although your posts don't indicate this, someone with severe, intractable depression might be so affected that they don't believe they have any capacity to choose a different state.

Earlier you said you are overweight and implied that up to now at least fresh air and exercise hasn't exactly been a priority.

Have a look again at CanOz's post about how his wife has improved with a determination to exercise, in combination with someone to talk to.

It has been demonstrated over and over again the huge impact physical fitness can have on mental fitness.
We now know that sustained, vigorous exercise can actually renew brain cells and appears to stave off dementia in the elderly.

Hence the question. You say you can do anything you put your mind to. You also want to lose weight and gain exposure to sunlight.
So you just have to decide to do it. No stuffing about feeling like a victim. If you can walk around the supermarket buying sugary food, you can get out and walk. And not just ten minutes. Half an hour twice a day minimum at a rapid pace. Then increase it until you're up to at least 10kms a day.
Make it a dedicated part of your day, no different from brushing your teeth. It's just what you do.

And of course, dump the crap food. Give the carbs a miss and focus on fresh fruit and vegetables, some protein.

After a few weeks, you will feel a lot better, not just physically, but also psychologically because your sense of self respect is improved knowing you're doing something positive for yourself.

It's pretty easy to be indulgent with ourselves and only do what feels comfortable and easy. I don't necessarily enjoy grinding my way up and down the pool 365 days a year for an hour at a time, but I do enjoy the resulting feeling of flexibility and achievement.

The above remarks are not at all intended to be dismissive of those with severe depression which may need medication and other intensive treatment.

Julia said:

A question for you, burglar: do you believe you have the capacity to make choices?

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I think it's a good question because if the answer is yes, then I wouldn't eat junk anymore, I would exercise more regularly, so if I had the capacity to choose life would be easy.

Julia said:

... The above remarks are not at all intended to be dismissive of those with severe depression which may need medication and other intensive treatment.

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Much food for thought, Julia.

I am not a bleating victim or a moaner.
I wanted to demonstrate that there is life after Depression.

As CanOz mentioned some people need medication, others are lucky.

With regard to the weight - I gained it slowly. I will lose it slowly.
I will not crash diet.
In fact, you may notice, I have not used the word 'diet' until now.

With regard to exercise -
I am up to 7Kms per day but choose to do this only one day a week.

As a synopsis:
I would say it is even a good battle plan for healthy people. (Cat people included)

MrBurns said:

That IU (international units)

Get Ostelin, but get the level checked first.

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hope I wont get into trouble for posting this - http://www.iherb.com/Healthy-Origins-Vitamin-D3-5-000-IU-360-Softgels/18335

I buy these for my mum and gran, along with a few things that help my dads interstitial cystitis off iherb. shipping can be cheaper than buying from an Aussie website.

They seem to work and you can't beat the price for a years worth of vit D.

- - - Updated - - -

burglar said:

Much food for thought, Julia.

I am not a bleating victim or a moaner.
I wanted to demonstrate that there is life after Depression.

As CanOz mentioned some people need medication, others are lucky.

With regard to the weight - I gained it slowly. I will lose it slowly.
I will not crash diet.
In fact, you may notice, I have not used the word 'diet' until now.

With regard to exercise -
I am up to 7Kms per day but choose to do this only one day a week.

As a synopsis:
I would say it is even a good battle plan for healthy people. (Cat people included)

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My old job was around a 35 minute walk from home. I was amazed that people couldn't believe I'd do that walk morning and night. I miss it. Was a good 7KM round trip 4 days a week. Was a better way to wake up than coffee and it certainly helped keep the weight down.

My new job is a bit too far to walk, but they've gave us free gym membership so that helps. Thought I'd do it in passing fad, but kept up the motivation for 12 months now and enjoying the slow but steady improvement in strength, especially for my back.

Baldric said:

I have been visited by the black dog a few times in my life. The first time I was given medication to treat it. It helps enormously but depending on your meds can have some unwanted side affects.
I am now able to recognise the triggers and can "head it off at the pass" before it sets in.

What works for me is positive thinking, forcing yourself to get things done, getting excercise, not drinking too much, eating well, doing something you enjoy and spending time with people you like.

The other problem is that men dont talk to their mates about it. You need to talk about it, so pay someone to listen. If you go to the GP you can get a prescription for some therapy sessions which makes it easier on the pocket.

You are not alone in this.

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Hi Baldric,
Sorry I missed your post yesterday.
It has really struck a chord with me.

So many people have sympathy or empathy, if and when I talk about it.

not drinking too much

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Yes, I forgot to mention that one.
Alcohol is a depressant!

The other one I forgot was avoiding stressful situations.
I make an exception for "trading/investing/speculating"

As an aside I was assigned to an "Anger Management" group therapy course.
I mentioned to the facilitator, that there were no angry people in the group.
His immediate response, "Effective, isn't it"!!:

For that alone, he deserved a Christmas present !!

Burglar, I think we all have different things which set us off. The drinking too much was one of my triggers. How much is too much is subjective.
But thinking about, and this is my experience, I tend to beat myself up about things. So if I have 4 drinks one night then I will beat myself up about being a failure etc etc etc.
Stupid, but then it is not logical.

Baldric said:

Burglar, I think we all have different things which set us off. The drinking too much was one of my triggers. How much is too much is subjective.
But thinking about, and this is my experience, I tend to beat myself up about things. So if I have 4 drinks one night then I will beat myself up about being a failure etc etc etc.
Stupid, but then it is not logical.

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I don't want to preach, but my past involved moderate drinking.
When my drinking buddy died, I had a chance to sober up.

It was a long time ago, ...

Baldric said:

Burglar, I think we all have different things which set us off.

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The importance of this point is probably missed by many.

Without detailing my own experience, it's more important to know why you do something than, that 'something' often works. Too often we waste our time doing the wrong thing, but for the right reason.

It is important to know what in particular or generally set it off. The stronger the hold you can get on a thread of the cause and effect the much better armed you are to prescribe the best path back to full health and fitness.

Strenuous exercise is often helpful if your cause is emotionally based, in my case, increasing exercise was not helpful, it was actually detrimental, part of the cause... other issues such as chronic fatigue and similar syndromes are often undiagnosed or misdiagnosed. Others may be confounding.

My Vit D fell as a result of the cause... and did not rise despite ample sun, until I took a long extended holiday and completely relaxed. Even supplements had no significant effect. B12 however, did rise significantly while others didn't, helping to diagnose subtle or completely asymptomatic issues like malabsorption.

I was quite a fruit bat and fitter than the proverbial scrub bull before it set in on me... some time before I was fully diagnosed. So even a good diet and ample exercise won't prevent you from succumbing to the black dog. They are part of the desired end result of treatment, but not necessarily the origin of the cure or the beginning of the path to cure it.

Medications can play an important part, BUT above all one has to come to peace with your own body not just your mind, as in when you feel like you want to do something as in a passion is returning... as opposed to 'need' to, to meet some perceived expectation.

Some people feel more comfortable with more of their own space, solitude to gather their inner strength. Sometimes it's other people, or people generally that depress us, or hinder our recovery. I love my animals as they love me unconditionally and draw satisfaction, playful humour and energy from each other to recharge my batteries in periods of solitude.

I read somewhere that Bill Gates and a couple of his mates would gather heaps of interesting reading material and have a sabbatical for a week or two every year where they would consume the contents and bounce the ideas gained thereof, off each other enabling them to go back to work invigorated with new plans from the new ideas. I don't think he had depression, but it's a demonstration of the power of a well adjusted, stimulated intellect.

Note: these sorts of forums can be a bit of a hazard while negotiating depression, but you seem to be coming along just fine. I came back from another self imposed sabbatical stronger and better than ever... much to the annoyance of some

Don't feel guilty about spending time to focus on yourself and you'll come through just fine.

Burglar, I don't think you were after advice when you started this thread, so here's mine. (what? )

Don't work too hard at being happy. Striving is a common and misunderstood cause of sadness, and this includes the striving for happiness.

Left alone, the mind will not stay happy or sad for very long. That's not its nature. So when depression happens, it's often because we have judged the initial sadness to be "wrong", and desperately tried to fix it. The "do something to fix it" approach exacerbates a normal sad reaction of the mind and turns it into something much worse (depression). People who are able to objectively observe** the early stages of sadness will usually find that the sadness runs its course and disappears. All emotions have a natural life span. Eating well, exercising and medication are fine, but one must be careful not to adopt the attitude that sadness needs "fixing". No emotion can be fixed, resisted or cured. Sadness is part of life - depression need not be.

**requires an ability to objectify the mind and body. This is usually (but not always) achieved through meditation, but meditation can be a very tricky undertaking with depression, and so you if you are interested, then it's best to learn with a health professional.

Gringotts Bank said:

Eating well, exercising and medication are fine, but one must be careful not to adopt the attitude that sadness needs "fixing".

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So agree on this point. Our society seems to have come to a point where ordinary human emotions, variable as they are, require modification if they are anything other than happy. Thus we have such normal responses as sadness and grief being medicated rather than allowed to run their natural course.

Gringotts Bank said:

Burglar, I don't think you were after advice when you started this thread, so here's mine. (what? )

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You are correct.

I am already through this, on top of it, or got to the bottom of it.
I've built a bridge ... and burnt my boat.


Just looking to share, ...

Or offer hope ...


Whatever!


Heartwarming to see the response!

Julia said:

So agree on this point. Our society seems to have come to a point where ordinary human emotions, variable as they are, require modification if they are anything other than happy. Thus we have such normal responses as sadness and grief being medicated rather than allowed to run their natural course.

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Right, but I think medication is more necessary nowadays because, on average, the level of suffering is greater for the same given difficult circumstance (if that makes sense?). This is because people are more thought-identified now than ever before. The thought-identification trend has made us very vulnerable to pronounced levels of emotional suffering.

burglar said:

Are you alluding to FaceBook??

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Not directly, but the theme running behind Facebook, yes. Facebook doesn't encourage (or even allow) you to be ordinary, even if ordinary is what you are. If you're extraordinary, that's great. But there's a huge pressure to create a self-image (page) which is exciting, sexy, worldly and on-point. Because images need upgrading as trends change, this means a constant struggle to stay relevant, sexy, exciting, worldly and on-point..... a struggle to stay likable and lovable. Then the more you struggle, the more desperate and fake you appear, and the more people find it hard to really connect with you on the level that you want. Perverse. People who genuinely don't give a f#ck are naturally appealing, but those who have cultivated the "I don't give a f#ck" persona as a way of trying to impress others are not.

Gringotts Bank said:

Right, but I think medication is more necessary nowadays because, on average, the level of suffering is greater for the same given difficult circumstance (if that makes sense?). This is because people are more thought-identified now than ever before. The thought-identification trend has made us very vulnerable to pronounced levels of emotional suffering.

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By "thought-identification trend" I presume you mean the unbalanced priority of work, over rest and relaxation, or fads that has developed in modern society, the cultural conditioning that leads to short-circut the proper functioning of an open and enquiring mind, becoming more robotic.

Ironically though, prescribing drugs can also exacerbate the problem by relying on drugs to do what the body often needs, to recover from itself.

At some point there is usually a need to consciously challenge your own ideas to overcome the thought-identification trend. I agree, sometimes medically prescribed drugs can be beneficial to assist this via mood change or enforced sleep.

One also has to consider whether your thought-identification trend is working with or against your natural circadian rhythm. Many of us are naturally wired to be different for a reason... and we don't know it.

Gringotts Bank said:

Not directly, but the theme running behind Facebook, yes. Facebook doesn't encourage (or even allow) you to be ordinary, even if ordinary is what you are. If you're extraordinary, that's great. But there's a huge pressure to create a self-image (page) which is exciting, sexy, worldly and on-point. Because images need upgrading as trends change, this means a constant struggle to stay relevant, sexy, exciting, worldly and on-point..... a struggle to stay likable and lovable. Then the more you struggle, the more desperate and fake you appear, and the more people find it hard to really connect with you on the level that you want. Perverse. People who genuinely don't give a f#ck are naturally appealing, but those who have cultivated the "I don't give a f#ck" persona as a way of trying to impress others are not.

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So we evolved as hunter gatherers, ...

Then learned agrarianism, Capitalism/ consumerism
No longer, do we have feast an famine.
The Supermarket offers a smorgasbord.
We have fridges to ensure continuous supply.




and now social media as well.

All without evolving coping mechanisms!?
Deep down, we are still hunter gatherers.

Whiskers said:

By "thought-identification trend" I presume you mean the unbalanced priority of work, over rest and relaxation,..

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I just mean the tendency to identify with whatever thought processes are going on in the mind. If I have a stock that shoots up suddenly, this will trigger positive thoughts, eg. "Nice trade! Great!". I don't think it's possible to prevent such thoughts from happening, because the mind is a pleasure-seeking machine and it's supposed to behave that way. But to the degree that I am identified with the thought "Nice trade!" I will feel a burst of satisfaction, or even pleasure if I'm really 'in my head'. To the degree I am able to dis-identify from it and just watch that very same thought come and go, I can feel some degree of detachment and peace with the whole thing. The benefit is that when a trade goes bad, you don't feel an emotional wreck. But getting out of one's head is like getting out of quick sand, you don't want to struggle too hard.

Gringotts Bank said:

I just mean the tendency to identify with whatever thought processes are going on in the mind. If I have a stock that shoots up suddenly, this will trigger positive thoughts, eg. "Nice trade! Great!". I don't think it's possible to prevent such thoughts from happening, because the mind is a pleasure-seeking machine and it's supposed to behave that way. But to the degree that I am identified with the thought "Nice trade!" I will feel a burst of satisfaction, or even pleasure if I'm really 'in my head'. To the degree I am able to dis-identify from it and just watch that very same thought come and go, I can feel some degree of detachment and peace with the whole thing. The benefit is that when a trade goes bad, you don't feel an emotional wreck. But getting out of one's head is like getting out of quick sand, you don't want to struggle too hard.

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Good analogy!

The same applies to where I thought you more widely meant... dealing with social norms and expectations. The 'quick sand' is rarely as bad as we are led to believe by our perceptions of what it would be like. For example, actual quick sand that I've experienced on the beach and in the bush is no where near as bad as often portrayed in popular movies. It won't suck you down to the middle of the earth and as you correctly say, literally and metaphorically, trying too hard will not get you out any sooner.

Hey Burglar

Some perspective from a very clever comedian might help.


Battle on you good thing.

craft said:

... Some perspective from a very clever comedian ...

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What in heaven's name, were you searching for, when you stumbled onto this gem?




Thank you for sharing!