"Muslim-friendly" loans: Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate?

disarray · 17 June 2009

jono1887 said:
hahahah... do you really think that by monitoring the muslim loans in european banks they will gain any form of real control over european banking systems or even manage to 'rule Europe'

depends on whether you are capable of seeing a big picture or not. for you, obviously not. here's something, maybe you should hit google and see if islamic bankers finance jihad through zakat or prominent anti-western clerics (who sit on these sharia banking boards) in europe have openly stated that the push for islamic finance is another method to push for islamic dominance over the west.

then tie finance in with various forms of political, employment, social and legal agitation and yeah, the sums add up. you know like special days at the pool, special jobs only a muslim could do, legal acceptance of polygamy, hate speech legislation that makes it illegal to criticise islam (but apparently not illegal to stand in the mosque and scream for the destruction of the west and genocide of the jews) , or maybe even just piss and moan about not being given special prayer rooms that are good enough for everyone else at melbourne uni then yeah, the ultimate goal of islam to try and dominate the world

there are none so blind as those who will not see. the hole in the sand is down

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that way. go stick your head in it, you'll be happier there.

doctorj · 17 June 2009

depends on whether you are capable of seeing a big picture or not. for you, obviously not. here's something, maybe you should hit google and see if islamic bankers finance jihad through zakat or prominent anti-western clerics

Just as islamic finance is OCCASIONALLY used to fund terrorism, so is vanilla finance. The key point to remember is that islamic finance in the way it is being adopted simply restructures the nature of the interest payments, it doesn't inherently fund terrorism.

you know like special days at the pool, special jobs only a muslim could do, legal acceptance of polygamy, hate speech legislation that makes it illegal to criticise islam (but apparently not illegal to stand in the mosque and scream for the destruction of the west and genocide of the jews) , or maybe even just piss and moan about not being given special prayer rooms that are good enough for everyone else at melbourne uni then yeah, the ultimate goal of islam to try and dominate the world

Finance has nothing to do with any of this. Just like the availability of kosher foods in supermarkets has nothing to do with the spread of judaism and support of Israel's position on Palestine.

The point which is being missed is that all who use it must conform to the dictates of sharia law. Sharia financial institutions may not be making this clear now – they don’t want to frighten people away – but at some point that IOU of sharia-compliance will be called in. This is how sharia-compliance will be spread to both the Muslim and non-Muslim population.

Whilst this may apply to some small institutions, there's no way it's part of the NAB product and furthermore, there's no way it'd be enforceable in a Western court (i.e. obey sharia or we'll reposess your home).

disarray · 17 June 2009

doctorj said:
Just as islamic finance is OCCASIONALLY used to fund terrorism, so is vanilla finance.

as policy? it's only the "SMALL MINORITY" of muslims that blow themselves up on buses and in bars too.

doctorj said:
The key point to remember is that islamic finance in the way it is being adopted simply restructures the nature of the interest payments, it doesn't inherently fund terrorism.

incorrect. zakat is a fundamental part of islamic financial principles and through donations to islamic charities it funds terrorism operations around the globe. read this . or a snippet to get the gist -

Al Queda's financial backbone is built from the foundation of charities, non-governmental organisations, mosques, websites, fund-raisers, intermideiaries, facilitators, and banks and other financial institutions that helped finance the mujiheddin throughout the 1980's. This network extended to all corners of the Muslim world.

more relevant to us in australia, how does jemaah islamiyah fund its south east asian operations?

paraphrased said:
cash brought into the country on person, funds skimmed from islamic charities, corporate entities, proceeds from hawala (underground banking) shops, gold and gem smuggling, contributions (zakat and infaq) from JI members and supporters, Al Queda investments and accounts already established in the regional islamic banking system and petty crime

doctorj said:
Finance has nothing to do with any of this. Just like the availability of kosher foods in supermarkets has nothing to do with the spread of judaism and support of Israel's position on Palestine.

incorrect again. judaism doesn't have as one of its central principles the subjugation of all kaffir and imposition of its own legal, social and religious code on the rest of the world. when jews do the kosher thing its so they can have food prepared according to their religious dictates. if KFC serve bacon burgers they don't carry on about it and demand it is removed from the shops.

muslims on the other hand aggressively push their halal requirements onto the rest of society so if you want bacon on your burger in western sydney you're **** out of luck. muslims are also well known for whining when they have to handle pork as part of their food preparation duties (unlike our kosher munching friends)

doctorj said:
Whilst this may apply to some small institutions, there's no way it's part of the NAB product and furthermore, there's no way it'd be enforceable in a Western court (i.e. obey sharia or we'll reposess your home).

yet. however a look at the state of europe may give us a glimpse into our future where sharia law is already enforced in part and there are continuing calls for its expansion and influence into the western political, social, and now financial system.

or just ignore it all, it's easier.

** more **

Banks helping sharia make a back door entrace

The origin of Islamic banking has its roots in the 1920s, but did not start until the late 1970s and owes much of its foundation to the Islamist doctrine of two people — Abul Ala Maudoodi of the Jamaat-e-Islami in Pakistan and Hassan al-Banna of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. The theory was put into practice by Pakistani dictator General Zia-ul-Haq who established sharia banking law in Pakistan.

Proponents of sharia banking rest their case on many verses of the Holy Koran that outlaw usury, not interest.

Verses that address the question of loans and debts include:

Al Baqarah (2:275): God hath permitted trade and forbidden usury;

Al Baqarah (2:276): Allah does not bless usury, and He causes charitable deeds to prosper, and Allah does not love any ungrateful sinner.

Every English-language translation of the Koran has translated the Arabic word riba as usury, not interest. Yet, Islamists have deliberately portrayed bank interest as usury and labelled the current banking system as un-Islamic. Instead, these Islamists have created exotic products with names that are foreign to much of the world's Muslim population. This is where they mask interest under the niqab of Mudraba, Musharaka, Murabaha, and Ijara. Two authors, both senior Muslim bankers, have written scathing critiques of sharia banking, one labelling the practice as nothing more than "deception," with the other suggesting the entire exercise was "a convenient pretext for advancing broad Islamic objectives and for lining the pockets of religious officials." Why Canadian banks would contribute to this masquerade is a question for ordinary Canadians to ask.

doctorj · 17 June 2009

disarray said:
or just ignore it all, it's easier.

I have no idea how to counter an argument that is riddled with non sequitors, so as far as this thread goes at least, I think ignoring it is easier.

Tink · 17 June 2009

Xenophobia is alive an kicking I see

Aaaah news.com.au -- you have done it again....

Pathetic Journalism..

Sunder · 17 June 2009

Tink said:
Xenophobia is alive an kicking I see

Aaaah news.com.au -- you have done it again....

Pathetic Journalism..

Is it Xenophobia, or a cultural/religious thing?

I remember reading an article back in 2003 - forgot the hard figures, but they compared crime stats, employment rates, ability to speak english etc, for Lebanese Muslims, and Lebanese Christians.

Bottom line was that 12 months after migration, you couldn't tell a Lebanese Christian from a local by stats, but the Lebanese Muslims were something like 6 times more likely to be convicted of a crime (Within 12 months!!) and far more likely to be unemployed.

This was of course fresh after the memory of September 11, and the stats could be skewed by people refusing to hire Muslims, and therefore forcing them to crime... But I doubt it accounts for all of it.

Tink · 17 June 2009

I wouldnt be tarnishing them all with the same brush Sunder

I know a couple of Lebanese Muslims that are hard workers and a good family..
I look at the paper everyday and I see plenty of Aussies in crime and unemployed
What are we going to do about them?

Sunder · 17 June 2009

Tink said:
I wouldnt be tarnishing them all with the same brush Sunder

I know a couple of Lebanese Muslims that are hard workers and a good family..
I look at the paper everyday and I see plenty of Aussies in crime and unemployed
What are we going to do about them?

Of course not. I'm not suggesting we bar an entire religion because their stats turned out worse than another group.

I'm just saying the differences fall along religious and cultural lines, not national ones, so it's not really Xenophobia.

Happy · 17 June 2009

disarray said:
well the NAB are in fact the ones on the "muslim" bandwagon, and they have some $25000 scholarship for "muslim finance" going around. good on the NAB for facilitating the creeping sharia

NAB should be boycotted.

Why was NAB allowed to push this religious wedge?

So we slowly get used to that shara thing, eventually to have no other option in some time in the future.

kingcarmleo · 17 June 2009

Don't you people understand NAB is run by the medici family

jono1887 · 17 June 2009

kingcarmleo said:
Don't you people understand NAB is run by the medici family

Just like the Muslims that are not really humans, but are aliens that have infected human hosts and are currently attempting to take over the world.

Happy · 17 June 2009

jono1887 said:
Just like the Muslims that are not really humans, but are aliens that have infected human hosts and are currently attempting to take over the world.

One day you might be surprised how close to mark you are.

jono1887 · 17 June 2009

Happy said:
One day you might be surprised how close to mark you are.

And I'll be ready in my nuclear fall out shelter, sitting next to my shotgun and my CB radio...

Happy · 17 June 2009

jono1887 said:
And I'll be ready in my nuclear fall out shelter, sitting next to my shotgun and my CB radio...

Might brush on some languages while you wait

"Muslim-friendly" loans: Is this a good way to lock in an interest rate?

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