Lumber: nothing on the ASX?

[derangedlawyer]

The ASX unfortunately doesn't seem to have an ETF with exposure to lumber. https://www.marketindex.com.au/asx-etfs

Any way to get exposure via certain shares?

 

[derangedlawyer]

Foud only thesehttps://fknol.com/au/stock/lumber.php

Sorted by Market Cap. Click on the arrow buttons to sort the table as per the desired column
1.	Big River Industries (BRI)	$97.92 million	-8.22%	Big River Industries Limited, together with its subsidiaries, engages in the manufacture, distributes, and retail of timber products and building supplies in Au...See Company Profile	$1.34	$1.19 - $1.72​
2.	Midway (MWY)	$80.35 million	-53.06%	Midway Limited, together with its subsidiaries, processes, sells, markets, and exports wood fiber to the producers of pulp, paper, and associated products in Au...See Company Profile	$0.9200	$0.70 - $1.96​
3.	Kangaroo Island Plantation Timbers (KPT)	$72.21 million	-34.69%	Kangaroo Island Plantation Timbers Limited, together with its subsidiaries, engages in the forestry management activities in Australia. It is involved in the ma...See Company Profile	$1.28	$0.70 - $2.11​
4.	Papyrus Australia (PPY)	$23.1 million	170%	Papyrus Australia Limited develops a technology that converts the waste trunk of the banana palm into alternatives to forest wood products for use in the paper,...See Company Profile	$0.0540	$0.01 - $0.11​

 

[So_Cynical]

No ETF mostly because its a very small sector of the economy, and a sector in slow decline.

 

[qldfrog]

No ETF mostly because its a very small sector of the economy, and a sector in slow decline.

And we have had a lot of plantation tax based scheme/scams which burnt many investors and even more gov money.
Blue gums, teatree plantation , sandalwood, paper pulp,chipwood, you name it.
I assume you are not living in Australia @derangedlawyer ?
Or are very young/green?

 

[derangedlawyer]

And we have had a lot of plantation tax based scheme/scams which burnt many investors and even more gov money.
Blue gums, teatree plantation , sandalwood, paper pulp,chipwood, you name it.
I assume you are not living in Australia @derangedlawyer ?
Or are very young/green?

Been trading for several years but yeah, I moved to Australia from Europe and wasn't aware of this.
Gotta say I'm often underwhelmed though by the lack of instruments in the ASX, at least compared to what's avaialble in European markets.

 

[qldfrog]

Been trading for several years but yeah, I moved to Australia from Europe and wasn't aware of this.
Gotta say I'm often underwhelmed though by the lack of instruments in the ASX, at least compared to what's avaialble in European markets.

Lets be honest:
Australian market: half a dozen RE funds masked as banks, a few big miners/energy, zillions of wannabee miners/energy, Coles and Woolies, half a dozen specialised retailers Myers to Oroton etc, Westfield, dying media stocks, couple real industrials, the others pretending industrial reselling made in china IP and products.
Ahh yes 3 or 4 agricultural related stocks.
Better like junior mining stocks here...
And CSL
Technology inexistent unless you consider data3 or JBHifi tech?
We are a remote relatively backward very small economy shifting mostly dirt, live cattle, cappucino and welfare.
Oh and we also renovate bedrooms

 

[derangedlawyer]

Lets be honest:
Australian market: half a dozen RE funds masked as banks, a few big miners/energy, zillions of wannabee miners/energy, Coles and Woolies, half a dozen specialised retailers Myers to Oroton etc, Westfield, dying media stocks, couple real industrials, the others pretending industrial reselling made in china IP and products.
Ahh yes 3 or 4 agricultural related stocks.
Better like junior mining stocks here...
And CSL
Technology inexistent unless you consider data3 or JBHifi tech?
We are a remote relatively backward very small economy shifting mostly dirt, live cattle, cappucino and welfare.
Oh and we also renovate bedrooms

??

 

[Dona Ferentes]

(How I dislike American words )

In Wesfarmers:

Wespine Industries​

The 50 per cent-owned Wespine Industries (Wespine) operates a plantation softwood sawmill in Dardanup, Western Australia. Wespine manufactures structural timber used in the construction industry along with landscaping, packaging and other timber products. Despite Western Australian housing approvals remaining at near 20-year lows, Wespine recorded timber sales of $95.7 million for the 2020 financial year, in line with the prior year. Performance was driven by the supply of additional volumes to customers in the eastern states on a lower overall contribution margin. Wespine’s recordable injuries declined slightly during the period reflecting the high level of focus which continues to be a priority for management.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

(How I dislike American words )

In Wesfarmers:

Wespine Industries​

The 50 per cent-owned Wespine Industries (Wespine) operates a plantation softwood sawmill in Dardanup, Western Australia. Wespine manufactures structural timber used in the construction industry along with landscaping, packaging and other timber products. Despite Western Australian housing approvals remaining at near 20-year lows, Wespine recorded timber sales of $95.7 million for the 2020 financial year, in line with the prior year. Performance was driven by the supply of additional volumes to customers in the eastern states on a lower overall contribution margin. Wespine’s recordable injuries declined slightly during the period reflecting the high level of focus which continues to be a priority for management.

When I saw the name of the thread, I immediately thought of WES.

Its the sort of enterprise they would be involved in. Sorry @Dona Ferentes " in which they would be involved ".

gg

 

[Dona Ferentes]

A takeout from the recent Platinum investor eve was the renewed interest in investment in forest assets, as there is a marked move back to paper to overcome the taint associated with plastics in packaging.

As per the earlier comments in the thread, listed companies and long time lines don't seem to match well. (Gunns, Willmott, Great Southern, MIS schemes, etc) Unlisted funds are emerging as an option .

New Forests Asset Management is one of the fastest-growing local fund managers. It has $ 11 billion in assets under management (AUM) across 1.2 million hectares of forests.

New chief executive Mark Rogers, who takes over from Brand on Monday, is confident of growing at 10 per cent a year over the next seven years to lift AUM to more than $20 billion.

He expects the global forestry sector to expand from about $300 billion to $1 trillion over the next decade as pension funds, sovereign wealth funds and big super step up their investment in sustainable investments.

“Our goal was to make forests a very investible asset class with all the characteristics that appeal to investors needing long-term liability, [and] matching assets that give you a cash flow along the way that are non-correlated with other markets,” Rogers says.

He says a primary driver of investment flows is the quest for investments that store carbon.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

A takeout from the recent Platinum investor eve was the renewed interest in investment in forest assets, as there is a marked move back to paper to overcome the taint associated with plastics in packaging.

As per the earlier comments in the thread, listed companies and long time lines don't seem to match well. (Gunns, Willmott, Great Southern, MIS schemes, etc) Unlisted funds are emerging as an option .

New Forests Asset Management is one of the fastest-growing local fund managers. It has $ 11 billion in assets under management (AUM) across 1.2 million hectares of forests.

New chief executive Mark Rogers, who takes over from Brand on Monday, is confident of growing at 10 per cent a year over the next seven years to lift AUM to more than $20 billion.

He expects the global forestry sector to expand from about $300 billion to $1 trillion over the next decade as pension funds, sovereign wealth funds and big super step up their investment in sustainable investments.



He says a primary driver of investment flows is the quest for investments that store carbon.

Interesting.

I do hope the modern forest assets have better governance than in the 80's or 90's.

I had two good high worth friends who lost "da lot" in forest investments.

They did their sums and were not ostrich egg individuals.

gg

 

[Dona Ferentes]

I do hope the modern forest assets have better governance than in the 80's or 90's..

The AFR article is interesting. Timber slipped off the radar because of the earlier actions.

"But the strategy failed because the cash flows could not support the debt. Investors jumped in on the recommendation of financial advisers paid overly generous up-front commissions.
"The abject failure of the government strategy is evident from the fact we are still a net importer of timber."

Ahem to that!

But the Great Southern insolvency was a once-in-a-generation opportunity for New Forests.

[Earlier CEO David] Brand says it was an ugly, difficult process negotiating to buy the timber assets. “Great Southern was built through 20 years of people buying coastal farm properties and planting trees on them,” he says.

“You’d never see an asset like that assembled again. It comprised 660 properties with 276,000 hectares. I think they had to bring the transaction documents in with a forklift, and it took the whole day to close the deal. I think there were 700 lawyers on the final email trail.”

The financial metrics were staggeringly good for New Forests when you consider there were two tranches of trees, managed by Tasmanian company Gunns, which had absorbed $ 1.6 billion in capital. New Forests bought these for $68 million.

The second leg of the deal was the land itself, which was bought by New Forests for $415 million. About half of the Great Southern assets have been sold, and New Forests is left with land worth $1.7 billion and trees worth $800 million.

“It’s just been an unbelievable transformation of that asset into what’s probably one of the greatest forestry estates in the world,” Brand says.

The second big expansion opportunity came in 2013 when the Gunns forestry company in Tasmania went bankrupt. New Forests bought the pine sawmills in South Australia and Tasmania for $50 million.

Later, when the Gunns forestry assets in Tasmania went bankrupt, New Forests bought those for about $320 million. Brand says they are worth about $1.2 billion today....

[Japanese investors have bought control of the company. Mitsui & Co and Nomura Holdings agreed last year to take control, with Mitsui lifting its holding from 23 per cent to 49 per cent, and Nomura buying 41 per cent. Staff will own 10 per cent.]

 

[divs4ever]

The AFR article is interesting. Timber slipped off the radar because of the earlier actions.

"But the strategy failed because the cash flows could not support the debt. Investors jumped in on the recommendation of financial advisers paid overly generous up-front commissions.
"The abject failure of the government strategy is evident from the fact we are still a net importer of timber."

Ahem to that!

But the Great Southern insolvency was a once-in-a-generation opportunity for New Forests.

[Earlier CEO David] Brand says it was an ugly, difficult process negotiating to buy the timber assets. “Great Southern was built through 20 years of people buying coastal farm properties and planting trees on them,” he says.


The financial metrics were staggeringly good for New Forests when you consider there were two tranches of trees, managed by Tasmanian company Gunns, which had absorbed $ 1.6 billion in capital. New Forests bought these for $68 million.

The second leg of the deal was the land itself, which was bought by New Forests for $415 million. About half of the Great Southern assets have been sold, and New Forests is left with land worth $1.7 billion and trees worth $800 million.


The second big expansion opportunity came in 2013 when the Gunns forestry company in Tasmania went bankrupt. New Forests bought the pine sawmills in South Australia and Tasmania for $50 million.

Later, when the Gunns forestry assets in Tasmania went bankrupt, New Forests bought those for about $320 million. Brand says they are worth about $1.2 billion today....

[Japanese investors have bought control of the company. Mitsui & Co and Nomura Holdings agreed last year to take control, with Mitsui lifting its holding from 23 per cent to 49 per cent, and Nomura buying 41 per cent. Staff will own 10 per cent.]

WOW !!

i just read that and reflexively took five steps back

maybe i am losing my memory , but i don't remember such adverbs used even at the peak of the pyramid marketing craze

BTW am still waiting for even a single letter about the fate of my Gunns preference shares

anyone mildly interested in 'timber assets ' should follow the saga of KPT ( Kangaroo Island Plantation Timbers ) ( i didn't hold but was tempted a few times )

KANGAROO ISLAND PLANTATION TIMBERS LTD KPT | InvestoGain Australia

KANGAROO ISLAND PLANTATION TIMBERS LTD (KPT) Profile, share prices, latest news, directors, executives, unclaimed dividends, directors share transactions, former names, subsequent names

www.investogain.com.au

if you really must invest in this area look at RFF ( i hold av. SP $1.58 bought in April 2016 ) and get a mix of assets and some divs on the way , , lots of things seem to happen while waiting for a tree to grow tall and strong ( land tax rises , forest fires , droughts , price collapses )