Lol, QE3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

How to be an economist who designs cars :

1) develop a theory saying ULP can run on diesel as the free hand of the market will change the engine
2) when car blows up blame the government for intervening by building roads which caused the engine to explode
3) demand all roads be sold to china fire everyone at the petrol station so that costs are lowered
4) car blows up because diesel destroys the engine
5) there are no roads or petrol at the petrol station
6) ask for a government bail out

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Mrmagoo said:

Ok - me go learn economics from people who led the world to economic collapse. Weeeeee, fractional banking system, quantitative easing all working wonderfully !!!! *sarcasm.

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Ya see right there, you go wrong right there.... the people that lead the world to economic collapse are siting on your side of the fence. Austrian principles have not been applied ANYWHERE in the last 100 years!

As for QE, if you had any sense you would realise that I am arguing against it!

Mr Magoo... what an apt handle!

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Mr Z said:

Ya see right there, you go wrong right there.... the people that lead the world to economic collapse are siting on your side of the fence. Austrian principles have not been applied ANYWHERE in the last 100 years!

As for QE, if you had any sense you would realise that I am arguing against it!

Mr Magoo... what an apt handle!

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It has been tried, just not in entirely as they've tried bits of it and realised how stupid austrian economics is and how much it does not work and just causes destruction.

If someone told you putting your hand in boiling water would make you pretty and you dip your fingers in and they get burned badly so you pull out and they say "no you must put your ENTIRE HAND IN FOR 10 SECONDS" do you do it, or assume they're wrong ?

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Mrmagoo said:

Ok - me go learn economics from people who led the world to economic collapse. Weeeeee, fractional banking system, quantitative easing all working wonderfully !!!! *sarcasm.

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Sarcasm? In the property thread you were bashing on about just how wonderful banks are and how much we need them, and it's never their fault that anything bubbles? So which is it? Are they good or bad, do they help to create asset bubbles or not?

And are you a communist?

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Mrmagoo said:

PS. I'd loooooove to see an impartial analytical literature review which proves that the minimum wage destroys jobs ! because there are countless arguments to the contrary !

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You ever owned a business Mrmagoo?

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Mrmagoo said:

It has been tried, just not in entirely as they've tried bits of it and realised how stupid austrian economics is and how much it does not work and just causes destruction.

If someone told you putting your hand in boiling water would make you pretty and you dip your fingers in and they get burned badly so you pull out and they say "no you must put your ENTIRE HAND IN FOR 10 SECONDS" do you do it, or assume they're wrong ?

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Tried, where? What country has been run on Austrian Economic principles? I will give you a clue, one came close and it has been such a blinding success considering its resource base that you would probably not want to mention it.

You sir are a liar or profoundly ignorant.

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Trembling Hand said:

You ever owned a business Mrmagoo?

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No, he cannot have, he has no clue as to the knock on effects of government setting input costs artificially high.

Hey Magoo... at the end of the day the business you work for has no security, no guaranteed right to exist, no mandated minimum success level... it has to justify itself every single day and when it can't it must change or close. There is no guarantee in life as a worker you are as safe as the business for which you work. They can't dictate price to the market so why should you have a right they don't.

If you are at minimum wage level that is the economy screaming at you that it no longer needs what you do and by offering others a lot more it is telling you what it needs. Grow up, reskill and earn more, if all low wage workers did that then the economy would naturally raise a market set minimum in good time and all would prosper.

Instead of sitting on your entitled a$$ and expecting "mother government" to make it better for you DO SOMETHING! If collectively fingers are pulled out THEN the economy will fix itself, so long as the government is not artificially setting prices like wages and oh say the cost of money!!!!!!

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

young-gun said:

And are you a communist?

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More a trollunist!

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

and now for something completely diff.....

Sovereign Debt Default Risk Plummets

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Friday, September 14, 2012 at 08:31AM

The recent rise in global stock market prices has coincided with a big drop in sovereign default risk. Below is a snapshot of current 5-year credit default swap prices for dozens of countries around the world. For each country, we also show how much default risk has fallen from its 2012 highs.

The average country on the list has seen default risk fall by 40% from its high. Default risk for Austria and Portugal has fallen the most at more than 60% for each country. Spanish default risk is now down 45% from its high on July 24th, while Italian default risk is down 44%.

Germany's default risk has fallen the most of the G7 countries at -53.95%. Japan's has fallen by 50%, while French default risk is down 49%. US credit default swaps have fallen the least of the G7 countries at -29.59%, but the US still has the lowest default risk in the G7. Out of all the countries on the list, though, the US is not the least risky. That title goes to Norway, whose 5-year CDS is now trading at just 22.67 basis points.

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-----------------------------------------------

i say i say i say.......what country/province has no central bank yet is doing just fine (thankyou very much!) ?

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Mr Z said:

More a trollunist!

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humourist slash troll-u-ciopath

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Joules MM1 said:

humourist slash troll-u-ciopath

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Moi?

LOL...

Isn't it funny that all the things in life that are hard to achieve are actually the better option for you. Tell a society that it has to do some hard yards for its own good these days and you are branded anti social or much worse!

Long live socialism, it works well till you run out of other peoples wealth.

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Joules MM1 said:

i say i say i say.......what country/province has no central bank yet is doing just fine (thankyou very much!) ?

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Panama Has No Central Bank neither do Monaco and Andorra.

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Mr Z said:

Panama Has No Central Bank neither do Monaco and Andorra.

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exactimodo.....singapore has a central monetary authority and does not, that i'm aware of, alter rates like central banks

my point of asking, as is always the (my) case, is that money as a function is really about the users not the politics or supposition of it's use or the mythical impact of central banks.....afterall, if the cheap money was the reason as a mechanic then we would not have this ongoing drama queen episode......that is how to focus on what people are actually doing with it.....everything else is cheese.....take away the central banks and communities dont function differently, people dont change because of a central bank, zero interest rates wont make people borrow if they have no taste for debt.......domo origato.....if you know i mean......

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Joules MM1 said:

exactimodo.....singapore has a central monetary authority and does not, that i'm aware of, alter rates like central banks

my point of asking, as is always the (my) case, is that money as a function is really about the users not the politics or supposition of it's use or the mythical impact of central banks.....afterall, if the cheap money was the reason as a mechanic then we would not have this ongoing drama queen episode......that is how to focus on what people are actually doing with it.....everything else is cheese.....take away the central banks and communities dont function differently, people dont change because of a central bank, zero interest rates wont make people borrow if they have no taste for debt.......domo origato.....if you know i mean......

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Hmmmm... I don't totally agree. The price of money deeply impacts how we behave economically and secondarily it impacts social mood. It is the single most important price in the economy and it is way too important to leave in the hands of a central bank, markets need to set rates. By and large in practice most central banks effectively follow the market but they can and do deviate artificially supporting the market at times (NOW!). This will always lead to a situation where the market will eventually win out and force a correction, the problem being that it is a much larger correction than it really needed to be, this has tangible downside. I agree that at the peak or a credit cycle no amount of rate cutting will change behavior simply because people have borrowed too much and even @ 0% you can only cover so much principle. Once this alters bull market perceptions to bear confidence cannot be resorted just by keeping money cheap, we need to retrench the debt before we will establish a sound footing again.

Look a Prechters Socioeconomics, they do interesting work on the interaction between finance and social behavior.

http://www.socionomics.net/

... it can probably be argued as to what follows what but I would certainly argue that mis pricing money and in doing so extending boom periods profoundly impacts social mood and behavior.

In truth I beleive that an economy is a complex eco system that centralized authorities struggle to model let alone control with a blunt time lagged instrument such as setting short rates.

JMO.

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Mr Z said:

The price of money deeply impacts how we behave

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from my lofty armchair, this is the precise point that most economists and opines leap off a huge faith in logic......it is completely back to front in the function of what people actually do.......

the price of money, the demand or lack of demand for money, for credit debt and all things to do with perception of value must first stem from the idea of value and desire for that value from the essence, that is, the starting point of all things: People.

a pricing cannot be decided until people first desire a pricing, to wit; all prices start with people, to wit, how we behave deeply impacts the price of money and even tho our behaviour is not logical to a calculator our emotional logic drives us to reach for the calculator and decide on price, or its value, as a relative event that we create to conduct or achieve what we want.....horse and cart.......how we behave, how people are constructed by nature, leads to new pricing.....we determin pricing as prices are a reflection of our sense of valuation, price cannot determin itself......even tho pricing is an exogenous event (by some over others as an external cost of doing business) we still react to its cost input by our emotional logic......if we are uncomfortable with deep debt then zero interest does not make us desire more debt......in the 1980's did high interest rates quell rampant debt risk pre-'87 crash? and the '87 crash did not diminish the desire for more debt with the emotional acceptance (of time)

again, Japan is the perfect example of this/my opinion, that, the country has a shriking population and refusal to expand debt and indebted balance sheets, a country in excess 120% debt to gdp and a prime minister whom has just been quoted as saying (paraphrased) we shall have inflation within the next 1 to 3 years......so you see, despite the rampant flushing of money into an eco-system, the numeric extent aside, the people who want to loan out the money must be matched by the peoples desire to be in debted to that available supply......

if my credit cards are full at 5% then giving me more credit cards at 1% wont necessarily encourage me to take more when my fears out-weigh my optomism........changing the number is a reflection of a changing emotion not the other way around


to me, this is simple logic that is not taught enough, especially in schools.......(it must be saturday...oh, yeah)

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

if an event is the reason people get angry or desire less money so the cost of it goes down, then, what is the event that causes people to do the opposite?

riddle that question and you'll reason the same conclusion that horse and cart or cart and horse

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

young-gun said:

Sarcasm? In the property thread you were bashing on about just how wonderful banks are and how much we need them, and it's never their fault that anything bubbles? So which is it? Are they good or bad, do they help to create asset bubbles or not?

And are you a communist?

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No I'm not a communist and banks are awesome AND people need to be paid good wages for the economy to work they're not mutually exclusive. I also think people who work hard and succeed should be paid a LOT more but that also does not mean those that don't succeed shouldn't be paid, because we need them to keep the economy going. Sheesh.

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Trembling Hand said:

You ever owned a business Mrmagoo?

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Too funny. If wages are sending you broke your business sucks and you should quit and join the Centrelink Que.

My father runs a business (which he started well and truly after I was an adult) and he tells me lots of stuff.

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Mr Z said:

No, he cannot have, he has no clue as to the knock on effects of government setting input costs artificially high.

Hey Magoo... at the end of the day the business you work for has no security, no guaranteed right to exist, no mandated minimum success level... it has to justify itself every single day and when it can't it must change or close. There is no guarantee in life as a worker you are as safe as the business for which you work. They can't dictate price to the market so why should you have a right they don't.

If you are at minimum wage level that is the economy screaming at you that it no longer needs what you do and by offering others a lot more it is telling you what it needs. Grow up, reskill and earn more, if all low wage workers did that then the economy would naturally raise a market set minimum in good time and all would prosper.

Instead of sitting on your entitled a$$ and expecting "mother government" to make it better for you DO SOMETHING! If collectively fingers are pulled out THEN the economy will fix itself, so long as the government is not artificially setting prices like wages and oh say the cost of money!!!!!!

Click to expand...

Everything you just said is nonsense. Not all Businesses get by scraping $2 an hour profit off someone else's work.

FYI I am doing probably about average financially, my total package is about 90k and I'm still studying.

There is no way motivation and just being better is going to fix the economy, it is a complex balancing act which in its simplest form amounts to how much people earn vs how much they have to spend against what levels of these things can sustain businesses.

The end point of a strong economy is companies making huge profits and stock prices going up and a government with a surplus. We should be facilitating business to make obscene profit by making sure they always have a good consumer base from which to generate a profit and discouraging short term benefit for the long term detriment. Those who work hard need to be rewarded but to do that you NEED economic growth first and foremost. There, did I address your political us vs them mentality ?

Under the modern models, jobs and skills are lost, lowering wages, so to compensate these losers and keep the oil of the economy flowing we need some wage to make sure people are paid enough to consume.

Re: Lol, QE 3? Try raising wages and giving something back to people to SPEND

Mrmagoo said:

Too funny. If wages are sending you broke your business sucks and you should quit and join the Centrelink Que.

My father runs a business (which he started well and truly after I was an adult) and he tells me lots of stuff.

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My list of kids who have never done anything, know everything AND are on my ignore list grows.