Listed Property Trusts
- Thread starter Jay-684
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Hi Jay-684
The income portion of our portfolio is heavily invested in LPT's and energy/infrastructure trusts.
Re ex-div dates, I don't have any links to ex-distribution dates (apart from Commsec research) but in my experience the ex-distribution dates for LPT's generally fall within the last few days of March, June, September, December depending on whether the distributions are half yearly or quarterly.
Personally, I steer away from LPT's that have a significant exposure to property development because of it's higher risk to profits. I prefer LPT's that basically own and maintain their own properties outright or in JV's and derive their income from rents and property value increases......but that is just part of my risk management strategy.
Re LPT's with yields above 7%, maybe some LPT's worth considering doing some research on could be MPS, GSA, DRT, REU, RAT, CPA all of which are on prospective yields above 7% atm.
The LPT sector (XPJ) has had a sensational run over the last 3 years (some of which was due to mergers) and so I am not expecting the same high performance in unit price appreciation in the next 12 months and if the general market turns bearish for whatever reason in the forseeable future then I would expect the LPT sector to turn bearish as well but by no where near as much as the general market as the relative low risk of good quality 'bricks and mortar' and a high sustaniable yield should provide some support for the sector.
Anyway, just food for thought and hope this helps
cheers
bullmarket
The income portion of our portfolio is heavily invested in LPT's and energy/infrastructure trusts.
Re ex-div dates, I don't have any links to ex-distribution dates (apart from Commsec research) but in my experience the ex-distribution dates for LPT's generally fall within the last few days of March, June, September, December depending on whether the distributions are half yearly or quarterly.
Personally, I steer away from LPT's that have a significant exposure to property development because of it's higher risk to profits. I prefer LPT's that basically own and maintain their own properties outright or in JV's and derive their income from rents and property value increases......but that is just part of my risk management strategy.
Re LPT's with yields above 7%, maybe some LPT's worth considering doing some research on could be MPS, GSA, DRT, REU, RAT, CPA all of which are on prospective yields above 7% atm.
The LPT sector (XPJ) has had a sensational run over the last 3 years (some of which was due to mergers) and so I am not expecting the same high performance in unit price appreciation in the next 12 months and if the general market turns bearish for whatever reason in the forseeable future then I would expect the LPT sector to turn bearish as well but by no where near as much as the general market as the relative low risk of good quality 'bricks and mortar' and a high sustaniable yield should provide some support for the sector.
Anyway, just food for thought and hope this helps
cheers
bullmarket
Jay,
If you look on my website exdividendwatchlist & go to Sample Watchlist you will see exdiv dates & dividends for the same period last year. This year it should be 23rd June 2006
Please note that this is an indication only, & further research should be undertaken as many factors may have changed.
Cheers,
If you look on my website exdividendwatchlist & go to Sample Watchlist you will see exdiv dates & dividends for the same period last year. This year it should be 23rd June 2006
Please note that this is an indication only, & further research should be undertaken as many factors may have changed.
Cheers,
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Hi again Jay
If interested, attached is an edited version of one of my spreadsheets that contains a summary of prospective yields and average yields (but not ex-distribution dates ) for all LPT's and for XPJ.
The forcast distributions are sourced from the investor ninemsn site using the Advance Finder tool.
The data in the spreadsheet is from March this year and so some of the forcast distributions may have been updated since then on the investor ninemsn site.
If it's of any use to you, feel free to download the zipped spreadsheet and butcher/hack/use it any way you like
cheers
bullmarket
If interested, attached is an edited version of one of my spreadsheets that contains a summary of prospective yields and average yields (but not ex-distribution dates
) for all LPT's and for XPJ.The forcast distributions are sourced from the investor ninemsn site using the Advance Finder tool.
The data in the spreadsheet is from March this year and so some of the forcast distributions may have been updated since then on the investor ninemsn site.
If it's of any use to you, feel free to download the zipped spreadsheet and butcher/hack/use it any way you like
cheers
bullmarket
Rosella and Bullmarket,
thank you very much for those attachments! Very useful indeed. I'll definately investigate them over the next week.
Another question for anyone invested in LPT's, is besides the low entry level, diversification and low entry/exit costs, why else do you invest in LPT's over real property?
Due to my age (22) and my income (<$20k p.a. - i'm a student) I am unable to borrow any substantial amount of money to 'get my foot in the door' of the property market. I am only in the initial stages of my research into large regional centres of NSW, but will also be looking at WA (perth/broome). In the event that these proposals fall through LPT's would be my next avenue of investigation, as I would be far more comfortable using leverage with them than listed shares.
thank you very much for those attachments! Very useful indeed. I'll definately investigate them over the next week.
Another question for anyone invested in LPT's, is besides the low entry level, diversification and low entry/exit costs, why else do you invest in LPT's over real property?
Due to my age (22) and my income (<$20k p.a. - i'm a student) I am unable to borrow any substantial amount of money to 'get my foot in the door' of the property market. I am only in the initial stages of my research into large regional centres of NSW, but will also be looking at WA (perth/broome). In the event that these proposals fall through LPT's would be my next avenue of investigation, as I would be far more comfortable using leverage with them than listed shares.
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no problem jay
I invest in LPT's for their relatively high nett yields (compared to direct property) and their relative low risk. LPT's are also a much easier means to diversify a property portfolio and also much easier to get in to and out of than direct property......besides, being retired I like to stick to the KISS principle nowadays and hence my investments in LPT's over direct property.
Sure, direct property might generate higher capital gains (and/or losses) but income is my first priority nowadays with capital gains second.
cheers
bullmarket
I invest in LPT's for their relatively high nett yields (compared to direct property) and their relative low risk. LPT's are also a much easier means to diversify a property portfolio and also much easier to get in to and out of than direct property......besides, being retired I like to stick to the KISS principle nowadays and hence my investments in LPT's over direct property.
Sure, direct property might generate higher capital gains (and/or losses) but income is my first priority nowadays with capital gains second.
cheers
bullmarket
We agree bullmarket.
Also, LPT's require no agents, solicitors, property managers, council rates, land tax, water rates, maintainance, tenancy problems.....etc
You can also borrow against LPT's, & sell off small portions if you need the cash. There are always buyers, & you can have the cash within 4 days with no hassle.
I live in a seaside suburb on the far south coast of NSW, & many residential homes are rented especially in the holiday seasons.....I see the heartache people have quite often when their houses are trashed....always fixing broken tiles, replacing carpet, holes in walls etc. I used to say to them "have you thought about hassle free property trusts" but they always say "I don't know anything about them" but are not willing to listen either. I say nothing these days.
Also, LPT's require no agents, solicitors, property managers, council rates, land tax, water rates, maintainance, tenancy problems.....etc
You can also borrow against LPT's, & sell off small portions if you need the cash. There are always buyers, & you can have the cash within 4 days with no hassle.
I live in a seaside suburb on the far south coast of NSW, & many residential homes are rented especially in the holiday seasons.....I see the heartache people have quite often when their houses are trashed....always fixing broken tiles, replacing carpet, holes in walls etc. I used to say to them "have you thought about hassle free property trusts" but they always say "I don't know anything about them" but are not willing to listen either. I say nothing these days.
thanks for the informative replies!
the whole idea of minimal hassles and easy entry/exit are the main drawcards for me over direct property. That and as I'm a virgin to the property market at this stage I'd rather buy something close to home first in an area I know well, than interstate or regional NSW.
Any idea how high you can leverage LPT's? 70%? 80%?
the whole idea of minimal hassles and easy entry/exit are the main drawcards for me over direct property. That and as I'm a virgin to the property market at this stage I'd rather buy something close to home first in an area I know well, than interstate or regional NSW.
Any idea how high you can leverage LPT's? 70%? 80%?
A few of the majors are as follows
WDC 75%
SGP 70%
GPT 70%
CNP 70%
CPA 70%
DRT 70%
This list will give you an idea......you will have to pick the LPT's out.
Margin Lending LVR's
Different marginlenders vary with their LVR's
Interest on an average borrowing is now 8.65%p.a & is usually capitalised to the loan together with brokerage.
WDC 75%
SGP 70%
GPT 70%
CNP 70%
CPA 70%
DRT 70%
This list will give you an idea......you will have to pick the LPT's out.
Margin Lending LVR's
Different marginlenders vary with their LVR's
Interest on an average borrowing is now 8.65%p.a & is usually capitalised to the loan together with brokerage.
Julia
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Unless you have some specific reason for wanting to have an exposure to property, have you considered instead putting the funds into good growth stocks?
e.g. Although there might be a yield of around 7% on LPT's, mostly their capital growth is pretty limited.
I would rather put the same money into, say, BHP which over the last year has roughly doubled in price. The yield is minimal, about 1.3% from memory.
If you do the sums on a comparison of putting, say, $10,000 into any of several LPT's, taking account of their capital growth and their yield (they often are not fully franked), and on the other hand $10,000 into e.g. BHP, you will pretty quickly see where lies the greater profit.
I don't really understand people who say they invest for the income. Aren't you better off to have the greater all up positive result and simply sell a few shares if you need the income?
Julia
e.g. Although there might be a yield of around 7% on LPT's, mostly their capital growth is pretty limited.
I would rather put the same money into, say, BHP which over the last year has roughly doubled in price. The yield is minimal, about 1.3% from memory.
If you do the sums on a comparison of putting, say, $10,000 into any of several LPT's, taking account of their capital growth and their yield (they often are not fully franked), and on the other hand $10,000 into e.g. BHP, you will pretty quickly see where lies the greater profit.
I don't really understand people who say they invest for the income. Aren't you better off to have the greater all up positive result and simply sell a few shares if you need the income?
Julia
Good point Julia
I am actually currently fully invested in Shares, ranging from Blue chip stocks (BHP, CBA, QBE, ALL etc) to smaller speculative/resources stocks.
The reason for using leverage to invest into LPT's and not traditional stocks is that I have never used a margin loan before, and in the current market, I am not really prepared to risk a large piece of my capital and invest on shares which may be heavily over valued. Basically I'm not willing to take the risk at this present time. On the other hand as others have said LPT's value come from the valuations of the properties which they own, and as a result their price fluctuations and hence risk are much lower. So for my first margin loan I want to try it out with something a little less volatile, to avoid margin calls and the like.
That and I want to get into the property market in some way, to diversify my portfolio.
Appreciating all the information!
Any info or links to margin lending would also be greatly appreciated!
I am actually currently fully invested in Shares, ranging from Blue chip stocks (BHP, CBA, QBE, ALL etc) to smaller speculative/resources stocks.
The reason for using leverage to invest into LPT's and not traditional stocks is that I have never used a margin loan before, and in the current market, I am not really prepared to risk a large piece of my capital and invest on shares which may be heavily over valued. Basically I'm not willing to take the risk at this present time. On the other hand as others have said LPT's value come from the valuations of the properties which they own, and as a result their price fluctuations and hence risk are much lower. So for my first margin loan I want to try it out with something a little less volatile, to avoid margin calls and the like.
That and I want to get into the property market in some way, to diversify my portfolio.
Appreciating all the information!
Any info or links to margin lending would also be greatly appreciated!
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Hi chansw
spot on...!!!
The tax deferred portion of distributions is used to lower the cost base of the LPT units and the added bonus is that if you hold the units for more than 12 months then the 50% discount on any taxable capital gains means that 50% of the tax deferred portion ends up being completely tax free
Hi Julia
The gross returns from the LPT sector have been very good since at least July 2004 during which time XPJ has traded between ~1600 - 2000 and if you add ~7%pa yield to that, it works out to an annual return of ~20%pa in the last 2 years.
You also asked -
I can only speak for myself and so for me personally it boils down to lifestyle
I need just a little over 5% yield from our income portfolio to generate sufficient income to keep mrs bullmarket in the lifestyle she became accustomed to when I was working
Getting at least 5% yield from relatively low risk LPT's is a 'no-brainer' imo and nowadays, being retired, I don't want to be pouring over charts and watching flickering numbers on watchlists day in day out trying to maximise profits from capital gains......hence income and not capital gains are my number 1 priority nowadays.......but we do have assets in mrs bullmarket's name which are much more orientated towards growth than income and so imo we have the best of both worlds.
hope this helps.
cheers
bullmarket
spot on...!!!
The tax deferred portion of distributions is used to lower the cost base of the LPT units and the added bonus is that if you hold the units for more than 12 months then the 50% discount on any taxable capital gains means that 50% of the tax deferred portion ends up being completely tax free
Hi Julia
The gross returns from the LPT sector have been very good since at least July 2004 during which time XPJ has traded between ~1600 - 2000 and if you add ~7%pa yield to that, it works out to an annual return of ~20%pa in the last 2 years.
You also asked -
I can only speak for myself and so for me personally it boils down to lifestyle
I need just a little over 5% yield from our income portfolio to generate sufficient income to keep mrs bullmarket in the lifestyle she became accustomed to when I was working
Getting at least 5% yield from relatively low risk LPT's is a 'no-brainer' imo and nowadays, being retired, I don't want to be pouring over charts and watching flickering numbers on watchlists day in day out trying to maximise profits from capital gains......hence income and not capital gains are my number 1 priority nowadays.......but we do have assets in mrs bullmarket's name which are much more orientated towards growth than income and so imo we have the best of both worlds.
hope this helps.
cheers
bullmarket
Julia
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Jay-684 said:
Jay:
Fine. I didn't realise you already had shares. Congratulations on what you've achieved at such a young age and with such limited income.
Cheers
Julia
Good article regarding margin lending in the money section of the SMH today too for anyone new to it: http://www.smh.com.au/news/money/le...1148956396766.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2 (extracted in full in the 'Margin Lending' thread).
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Long time lurker, first time poster!
What are peoples thoughts on using an index tracker for property trusts, such as StreetTracks or Vanguard? Instead of investing directly into LPT's?
This offers diversification, but higher fees.
Also what is the maximum I should be gearing into LPT's? 60% when the lender offers 70%?
What are peoples thoughts on using an index tracker for property trusts, such as StreetTracks or Vanguard? Instead of investing directly into LPT's?
This offers diversification, but higher fees.
Also what is the maximum I should be gearing into LPT's? 60% when the lender offers 70%?
G'day FrankGrimes,
streettracks SLF maybe okay for the long term holder, however, if you wish to trade in & out, the volume & transactions are too low as below.
As far as gearing your trades, this is something that you need to be comfortable with. If you are only trading with 2 or 3 stocks then you will need to allow a greater self imposed buffer. I am usually trading with 10 to 15 stocks so I am quite comfortable using the full limit plus a bit most of the time. LPT's are not as sleepy as most may think, they can whipsaw up & down very quickly in large volumes.
SLF fund LVR is 65% with Leveraged Equities
Date............. Close.... High..... Low.... Volume....Transactions
Last Ten Days
31-May-2006 1817.00 1818.00 1807.00 4,848............ 10
30-May-2006 1815.00 1815.00 1804.00 5,205 ..............5
29-May-2006 1792.00 1799.00 1783.00 11,222........... 16
26-May-2006 1778.00 1794.00 1778.00 16,245........... 11
25-May-2006 1778.00 1786.00 1775.00 14,070............11
24-May-2006 1789.00 1820.00 1789.00 9,631............. 11
23-May-2006 1815.00 1850.00 1815.00 16,537........... 12
22-May-2006 1820.00 1836.00 1819.00 3,261.............. 9
19-May-2006 1836.00 1844.00 1835.00 5,252................8
18-May-2006 1852.00 1852.00 1801.00 4,754............... 9
Last Ten Months
May-2006 1817.00 1905.00 1775.00 196,887.............. 210
Apr-2006 1836.00 1919.00 1810.00 239,018............... 139
Mar-2006 1874.00 2000.00 1850.00 331,930............... 143
Feb-2006 1899.00 1899.00 1796.00 157,744............... 100
Jan-2006 1794.00 1846.00 1776.00 243,732................. 85
Dec-2005 1832.00 1890.00 1755.00 546,222................. 93
Nov-2005 1795.00 1890.00 1731.00 515,917................. 95
Oct-2005 1722.00 1765.00 1690.00 356,108................ 122
Sep-2005 1770.00 1814.00 1750.00 106,178................. 80
Aug-2005 1754.00 1802.00 1736.00 141,211................ 106
Dividends
Amt.........Fc...........Ex Date.............Paid
32.79..... 9.24..... 03-Apr-2006..... 06-Jun-2006
27.59..... 4.43..... 30-Dec-2005..... 07-Mar-2006
10.75..... 16.43.... 30-Sep-2005..... 06-Dec-2005
115.89.... 0.00..... 24-Jun-2005..... 29-Aug-2005
29.84 ......5.68..... 31-Mar-2005..... 06-Jun-2005
29.21...... 2.32..... 31-Dec-2004..... 08-Mar-2005
25.40...... 3.78..... 30-Sep-2004..... 06-Dec-2004
39.54...... 5.03..... 24-Jun-2004...... 27-Aug-2004
27.73.......1.79..... 31-Mar-2004...... 04-Jun-2004
26.94....... 6.58.... 31-Dec-2003...... 05-Mar-2004
24.38....... 2.63.... 30-Sep-2003...... 08-Dec-2003
42.07....... 1.96.... 24-Jun-2003...... 29-Aug-2003
27.05....... 0.91.... 31-Mar-2003...... 03-Jun-2003
23.27....... 3.41.... 31-Dec-2002...... 07-Mar-2003
26.69....... 1.39.... 30-Sep-2002...... 03-Dec-2002
33.50....... 1.20.... 24-Jun-2002....... 27-Aug-2002
streettracks SLF maybe okay for the long term holder, however, if you wish to trade in & out, the volume & transactions are too low as below.
As far as gearing your trades, this is something that you need to be comfortable with. If you are only trading with 2 or 3 stocks then you will need to allow a greater self imposed buffer. I am usually trading with 10 to 15 stocks so I am quite comfortable using the full limit plus a bit most of the time. LPT's are not as sleepy as most may think, they can whipsaw up & down very quickly in large volumes.
SLF fund LVR is 65% with Leveraged Equities
Date............. Close.... High..... Low.... Volume....Transactions
Last Ten Days
31-May-2006 1817.00 1818.00 1807.00 4,848............ 10
30-May-2006 1815.00 1815.00 1804.00 5,205 ..............5
29-May-2006 1792.00 1799.00 1783.00 11,222........... 16
26-May-2006 1778.00 1794.00 1778.00 16,245........... 11
25-May-2006 1778.00 1786.00 1775.00 14,070............11
24-May-2006 1789.00 1820.00 1789.00 9,631............. 11
23-May-2006 1815.00 1850.00 1815.00 16,537........... 12
22-May-2006 1820.00 1836.00 1819.00 3,261.............. 9
19-May-2006 1836.00 1844.00 1835.00 5,252................8
18-May-2006 1852.00 1852.00 1801.00 4,754............... 9
Last Ten Months
May-2006 1817.00 1905.00 1775.00 196,887.............. 210
Apr-2006 1836.00 1919.00 1810.00 239,018............... 139
Mar-2006 1874.00 2000.00 1850.00 331,930............... 143
Feb-2006 1899.00 1899.00 1796.00 157,744............... 100
Jan-2006 1794.00 1846.00 1776.00 243,732................. 85
Dec-2005 1832.00 1890.00 1755.00 546,222................. 93
Nov-2005 1795.00 1890.00 1731.00 515,917................. 95
Oct-2005 1722.00 1765.00 1690.00 356,108................ 122
Sep-2005 1770.00 1814.00 1750.00 106,178................. 80
Aug-2005 1754.00 1802.00 1736.00 141,211................ 106
Dividends
Amt.........Fc...........Ex Date.............Paid
32.79..... 9.24..... 03-Apr-2006..... 06-Jun-2006
27.59..... 4.43..... 30-Dec-2005..... 07-Mar-2006
10.75..... 16.43.... 30-Sep-2005..... 06-Dec-2005
115.89.... 0.00..... 24-Jun-2005..... 29-Aug-2005
29.84 ......5.68..... 31-Mar-2005..... 06-Jun-2005
29.21...... 2.32..... 31-Dec-2004..... 08-Mar-2005
25.40...... 3.78..... 30-Sep-2004..... 06-Dec-2004
39.54...... 5.03..... 24-Jun-2004...... 27-Aug-2004
27.73.......1.79..... 31-Mar-2004...... 04-Jun-2004
26.94....... 6.58.... 31-Dec-2003...... 05-Mar-2004
24.38....... 2.63.... 30-Sep-2003...... 08-Dec-2003
42.07....... 1.96.... 24-Jun-2003...... 29-Aug-2003
27.05....... 0.91.... 31-Mar-2003...... 03-Jun-2003
23.27....... 3.41.... 31-Dec-2002...... 07-Mar-2003
26.69....... 1.39.... 30-Sep-2002...... 03-Dec-2002
33.50....... 1.20.... 24-Jun-2002....... 27-Aug-2002
