Legalise some drugs, outlaw others?

Tink said:

That starts with zero tolerance

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Tink said:

What we have done before and can do again is make drugs harder to procure.

That starts with zero tolerance

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Tink said:

You can advocate all you like, but I won't be agreeing.

Sweden was mentioned in how they are doing things, but I haven't looked into it.

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prawn_86 said:

Exactly. There are better methods out there than what is currently happening so why stick with the status quo?

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sydboy007 said:

Portugal needs to be held up as the way forward.

From the worst drug issue in Europe to one of the best in just a decade with their changed policies.

Turned the paradigm on it's head about what most believe about addiction.

We have, what 50 years of the war on drugs, spending more than ever on it, and still going backwards in many ways. More people than ever locked up in prisons for non violent drug crimes. What a waste, especially in the USA.

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prawn_86 said:

+1 yet there are still people like TInk who are not willing to consider a different opinion

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sydboy007 said:

Portugal needs to be held up as the way forward.

.

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Portugal: did not fully decriminalise; personal users still face fines, compulsory treatment
and bans. In 2004 an official evaluation found that while heroin overdose deaths and HIV
rates had fallen, there was an increase in drug use among young people and deaths related
to drugs other than opiates.
The European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addictions in 2011 reported that
‘Surveys show a stable situation regarding cannabis use in Portugal but a possible increase
in cocaine use among young adults’.
“There remains a notorious growing consumption of cocaine in Portugal, although not as
severe as that which is verifiable in Spain. The increase in consumption of cocaine is
extremely problematic.” (EMCDDA ´s Executive Director, Wolfgang Gotz, Lisbon - May
2009).
The country still has high levels of problem drug use and HIV infection and does not show
specific developments in its drug situation that would clearly distinguish it from other
European countries that have a different policy.
“Portugal registered between 2000-2008 a growing number of older drug users (40 or more)
entering treatment - the highest in Europe”. (EMCDDA – “Selected Issues,” November 2010)
“The highest HIV/AIDS mortality rates among drug users are reported for Portugal, followed
by Estonia, Spain, Latvia and Italy; in most other countries the rates are low” (EMCDDA –
November 2010).
The Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) in the United States has researched the
current situation in Portugal and found that ‘claims that decriminalization has reduced drug
use and had no detrimental impact in Portugal significantly exceed the existing scientific
basis… … The ‘Cato Report’ conclusions largely contradict prevailing media coverage and
several policy analyses in Portugal and the United States.
6
For a full report go to:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/ondcp/Fact_Sheets/portugal_fact_sheet_8-25-10.pdf

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The statistical indicators suggest that since the decriminalization in
July 2001, the following developments have occurred:
• Increased use of cannabis.
• Decreased use of heroin.
• Increased uptake of treatment.
• Reduction in drug related deaths.
Decriminalization has enabled earlier intervention and more targeted
and therapeutic responses to drug users, increased collaboration across
a network of services and the increased attention to adopting policies
that work. This is perceived to be reducing the level of current and
future drug use and harm. Yet, key informants also highlighted that
impacts were less than expected and that there were concerns over the
message that decriminalization was sending to new drug users.
The Portuguese experience cannot provide a definitive guide to the
effects of decriminalization of drugs, but only indications of the
results of decriminalization in the specific Portuguese context. It
is not possible to tell the extent to which changes were caused by
decriminalization or the wider drug strategy. The extent to which
difficulties in implementation impeded the impacts from the reform
remains unclear.
Decriminalization, particularly the model adopted

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moXJO said:

Can you post some stats as to why?
Surely millions must have been saved in legal fees,prison and court costs, which would be the benefit of the process. Rehab numbers and death rates also benefiting.
It would be interesting to compare Australias rate of drug use over 12 years compared to Portugals.
Australias rate of Heroin users dropped off a cliff from the 90s to now and I would question any benefit Portugal tried to attribute to it. I would think pot use would be (or was, may have spiked recently) on the decline as well.
The Portugal experiment showed decriminalization doesn't make it much worse or that much better.

https://kar.kent.ac.uk/13325/1/BFDPP_BP_14_EffectsOfDecriminalisation_EN.pdf.pdf

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There has been a downward trend in last years on the weight of drug addicts, in the total number of cases diagnosed each year with HIV infection (10%, 14%, 15%, 20% and 22%, of the cases diagnosed in 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007), as in the cases diagnosed each year with AIDS (17%, 25%, 25%, 28% and 31% of the cases diagnosed in 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007) - See more at: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Portugal#sthash.Gbh7kQMm.dpuf

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The population size of people who inject drugs is estimated to be 89 000 – 205 000
in Australia [3].
• HIV prevalence among people who inject drugs in Australia, as measured in the
Australian Needle and Syringe Program Survey [4], increased from 1.1% in 2004 to 2.1%
in 2013 (Figure 8); the recent increase was predominantly among male participants in
the survey who reported themselves as homosexual or bisexual (there was an increase in
MSM respondents in the survey).
• There is no obvious trend over time in HIV diagnoses attributable to injecting drug use,
with around 30 cases each year and 29 cases in 2013.
• In 2013, about 50% of the non-HIV-positive participants of the Australian Needle and
Syringe Program Survey reported having an HIV test in the 12 months prior to the survey.
Testing rates appear to be stable-to-increasing in this population (Figure 9).
• The prevalence of use of a needle and syringe after someone else used it among people
who inject drugs has remained stable at around 15% (Figure 10).

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15% of Australians used an illicit drug (including using a pharmaceutical drug for non-medical purposes) in the previous 12 months.

41.8% of Australians aged 14 years and over had used illicit drugs in their lifetime.

- See more at: http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/topics/statistics-trends#illicit

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Between 2007 and 2012, in the set of the Portuguese population was verified for almost all drugs a decrease in lifetime prevalence (of any illicit drug from 12% to 9.5%) and recent use (of any illicit drug from 3.7% to 2.7%) as well as decrease in continuity rates of use (of any illicit drug from 31% to 28%).

Between 2007 and 2012 in the set of the Portuguese population there was a general decrease in lifetime prevalence20 (any illicit drug from 12% to 9.5%) and recent use (any illicit drug from 3.7% to 2.7%), with the exception of ecstasy and LSD, whose lifetime prevalence remained the same and LSD use in last 12 months increased slightly. "Among the young adult population was also found a generalized decrease in lifetime prevalence use (any illicit drug from 17.4% to 14.5%) and in the last 12 months (any illicit drug from 7% to 5.1%) except in the case of LSD where lifetime prevalence remained the same and recent use increased slightly." - See more at: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Portugal#sthash.Gbh7kQMm.dpuf

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The ESPAD survey results for 2011 showed that the lifetime prevalence of cannabis use was 16 % (13 % in 2007; 15 % in 2003; 8 % in 1999). The lifetime prevalence for inhalants was 6 % (4 % in 2007; 8 % in 2003; 3 % in 1999), and for all other substances lifetime prevalence was reported at 3 %. The results indicated 16 % for last year prevalence of cannabis use (10 % in 2007; 13 % in 2003; 9 % in 1999), and 9 % for last month prevalence (6 % in 2007; 8 % in 2003; 5 % in 1999). Despite the downward trend observed during 2002–06, the most recent ESPAD study corroborates the findings of the HBSC study, showing an increase in consumption of illicit substances since 2006. This trend is observed among both male and female students.

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moXJO said:

ok I hope I read these stats and that I am comparing them right



So thats for portugal


http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/topics/statistics-trends#illicit
Australia has been pretty consistently low


On any illicit drug used




Thats from the site you listed


http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/country-overviews/pt

from another site

Australias drug death rate in 2009 was 1383 which was worse than our road toll same year 1323.

Portugal was 27 in 2009 from a high of roughly 400 in 2001ish. Not sure of the 1990's stats.
Back in 1998, Portugal reported 1,865 fatalities on its roads. By 2009, this figure had plummeted to 738. Ok, so thats a kick in the nuts as well.
not sure if they included something else in the aussie death stats but that is what 50 or so times Portugal's death rate(not adjusted for pop) seems really high.
portugal's population is something like 10 487 289
Ours is something like 22.72 million.
Maybe we just like taking risks. As a nation the national pastime seems to be dying - when looking at the stats. Yep ok I'm in, we need to do better

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Dan Haslam, the young Tamworth man whose story about using cannabis to relieve the pain of cancer was instrumental to changing Premier Mike Baird's position on medicinal use of the drug, has died.

"He never complained, he didn't stop fighting right until the end," Mr Haslam's mother, Lucy, told Fairfax Media's Northern Daily Leader.

Mr Haslam was 25. He died on Tuesday afternoon, five years after first being diagnosed with terminal bowel cancer.Mr Baird, who credited meeting Mr Haslam with a change in his views on medicinal cannabis, said he was deeply saddened by his death.

"I will never forget the look in his eyes the first time I met him and it will stay with me forever," the Premier said in a statement. "Dan made a lasting impression on everyone he met, but, more than that, he left a legacy in NSW that will be felt across the nation, and I believe the world.

"Every step we take on medical cannabis will be built on the footsteps he left behind."

Mr Baird announced in December plans for a clinical trial of medical marijuana for a range of conditions, including end-of-life pain, intractable epilepsy and the chemotherapy-related nausea for which Mr Haslam first sought treatment.

Mr Haslam was an unlikely advocate for the drug. His father, Lou, was a former drug squad detective.

He and his mother began researching cannabis' medical applications after he was diagnosed with terminal bowel cancer at the age of 20.

After the cancer spread to his liver and later his bones, Mr Haslam felt severely depleted by a barrage of aggressive chemotherapy treatments he underwent in Europe and Australia. He would vomit not just after undergoing chemo, but at the mere thought of it.

Adding to his pain were the side-effects of high-grade opiate painkillers – and the concomitant withdrawals.

It was then that a fellow cancer patient suggested he try using a cannabis tincture in tandem with chemotherapy treatments.

"My immediate reaction was 'no way'. Dad was the head of the Tamworth drug squad in the police force and I'd grown up in a very straight-edged family," Mr Haslam said.

He also recalled singeing his stubble with his first marijuana cigarette. But the relief was instant and palpable.

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(Reuters) - Smoking, growing and owning small amounts of marijuana became legal in Alaska on Tuesday as a growing decriminalization movement reached the United States' northwest frontier.

Alaska, which narrowly passed the measure in November, followed Colorado and Washington among states allowing recreational use, reflecting a rapidly shifting legal landscape for the drug.

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Texas Republican Wants to Legalize Pot Because "God Doesn't Make Mistakes"

The most progressive plan yet to fix Texas' backwards marijuana policy has come from, of all places, a Longview Republican.
A new bill from State Rep. David Simpson would control pot just like any other plant.

"I am proposing that this plant be regulated like tomatoes, jalapeños or coffee," Simpson said in a statement. "Current marijuana policies are not based on science or sound evidence, but rather misinformation and fear."

So far so good, so great. Unfair Park can see the Amsterdam-style coffee shops dotting Lower Greenville already, a bong rip and a latte quickly becoming the new shot and a beer. You must be wondering, though, as we were, what made Simpson see the light. The answer, as it was for Paul 2,000 years ago, is Jesus.

"All that God created is good, including marijuana. God did not make a mistake when he made marijuana that the government needs to fix," he said. "Let's allow the plant to be utilized for good -- helping people with seizures, treating warriors with PTSD, producing fiber and other products -- or simply for beauty and enjoyment. Government prohibition should be for violent actions that harm your neighbor -- not of the possession, cultivation, and responsible use of plants."


http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2015/03/texas_republican_marijuana_bill_jesus.php

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LAS VEGAS ”” Nevada’s top election official gave the go-ahead Monday to two initiatives for the 2016 ballot: One to allow recreational marijuana use; the other to tighten background checks for anyone buying guns from private sellers and gun show exhibitors.

Secretary of State Ross Miller certified that proponents of the separate measures submitted enough signatures Nov. 12 to force the 2015 Legislature to consider each issue, or automatically put the question on the general election ballot.

The groups needed 102,000 signatures statewide, or a little more than 25,000 from each of the state’s four congressional districts. Miller aide Catherine Lu said the number of signatures was well beyond those numbers.

Nevadans for Background Checks reported delivering nearly 247,000 signatures, and the Coalition to Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol had said it filed almost 200,000 signatures.

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In 2013, a United Nations report estimated that the cocaine trade through West Africa was worth at least $1.25 billion a year. This is higher than the combined government budgets of several countries in the region, which has become an important transhipment point between Latin America producers and consumers in the United States and Europe.

This cash flow threatens to corrode the institutions of the state and undermine economic progress and democratic practice in a part of the world that has only recently emerged from several decades of violent conflict and instability.

The region's political and security institutions are struggling to respond to these threats and are not always well equipped to mount adequate preventive measures. The "war on drugs" strategy, which focuses heavily on the suppression of drug shipments, has not enabled West Africa—or indeed other regions of the world—to meet and overcome the drug threat.

Experience has shown that force alone cannot reduce the drug supply or the criminality and corruption that it induces.

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Agents on the 2,000 mile-U.S. border have wrestled with these smuggling techniques for decades, seemingly unable to stop the northward flow of drugs and southward flow of dollars and guns. But the amount of one drug ”” marijuana ”” seems to have finally fallen. U.S. Border Patrol has been seizing steadily smaller quantities of the drug, from 2.5 million pounds in 2011 to 1.9 million pounds in 2014. Mexico’s army has noted an even steeper decline, confiscating 664 tons of cannabis in 2014, a drop of 32% compared to year before.

This fall appears to have little to do with law enforcement, however, and all to do with the wave of U.S. marijuana legalization. The votes by Colorado and Washington State to legalize marijuana in 2012, followed by Alaska, Oregon and D.C. last year have created a budding industry. U.S. growers produce gourmet products with exotic names such as White Widow, Golden Goat and Oaktown Crippler as opposed to the bog-standard Mexican “mota.” American dispensaries even label their drugs, showing how strong they are, measured in THC (tetrahydrocannabinol, the main psychoactive ingredient), and grade their mix of sativa, which gets people stoned in a psychedelic way and indica, which has a more knock-out effect.

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Drug policy reformists tout this market shift from Mexican gangsters to American licensed growers as a reason to spread legalization. “It is no surprise to me that marijuana consumers choose to buy their product from a legal tax-paying business as opposed to a black market product that is not tested or regulated,” says Tom Angell, chairman of Marijuana Majority. “When you go to a legal store, you know what you are getting, and that is not going to be contaminated.” A group called Marijuana Doctors elaborate the point in this comical online ad.

Analysts are still trying to work out the long-term effect this shift will have on Mexican cartel finances and violence. The legal marijuana industry could be the fastest growing sector of the U.S. economy. It grew 74% in 2014 to $2.7 billion, according to the ArcView group, a cannabis investment and research firm. This includes revenue from both recreational drug stores and from medical marijuana, which has been legalized in 23 states. The group predicts the industry will top $4 billion by 2016.

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