Labor's carbon tax lie

Logique · 14 July 2011

Sorry Rob Oakeschott, here's me appreciating the views of a woman (opponents of PM Gillard's plans being as you have said, sexist).

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...t_change_the_temperature_so_whats_it_all_for/
Miranda Devine, Monday, July 11, 2011 (my bolds)

"..Opposition environment spokesman Greg Hunt dropped by the blog this morning before delivering his response to the government’s carbon tax announcement at a lunchtime speech to the Lowy Institute.

His two main points:
1) The difference between the European and Australian carbon abatement programs: Europe’s ETS costs $1 per person. Australia’s carbon tax will cost $400 per person. 'The Australian carbon tax will be 18 times larger in dollar terms than the European scheme to date,' he says.

2) Australia’s carbon tax means a huge outflow of funds overseas to buy carbon permits: From $3.5 billion in 2020, blowing out to $23 billion by 2050. Hunt quotes eminent regulatory economist Henry Ergas on the carbon tax: 'Each man, woman and child in this country will be transferring $600 a year to foreign owners of permits. Whatever one may think of those transfers, they mean the government’s compensation promise is vastly underfunded.'

And for what? Australia can abandon its cheap power advantage, close down all its coal-fired power stations and sink into the ocean and the earth’s temperature will not change one jot.

Meanwhile, we keep exporting our coal to China so it can benefit from cheap power and emit whatever it likes.."

Julia · 14 July 2011

Correct. The government are failing to understand that this is the fundamental reason for the public outrage against the tax, rather than just a concern for the financial effects on us as individuals.

If it made any sense, and some genuine value could be anticipated as a result of the tax, I think most Australians would be supportive.

sails · 14 July 2011

The graph below shows that carbon "reduction" is to be achieved significantly by abatements - buying credits from overseas and could cost Australians around Three Billion dollars annually.

I have posted a couple of other articles on this on the Carbon pricing thread, but posted this here as I feel it fits in with the deceits. I don't hear Gillard saying too much about this, but if these suggestions are true, it is a real worry for this country. The government should be grilled heavily on this and the public has a right to understand exactly what the PM is trying to force on to us, imo.

From Andrew Bolt's blog - Herald Sun: The black hole in Gillard’s plan

Half the emission cuts are going to come from buying credits overseas.

Let’s overlook the basic fact that a proper overseas market in credits barely exists and is ripe for rorting, as the European Union has already found.

Assume, very conservatively, that those credits will trade at $30 a tonne. That means that the 160 million tonnes of emissions Gillard promises to be cutting by 2020 will see Australia send more than $3 billion a year out of the country to places such as China - or Nigeria.

addison · 14 July 2011

adelaide radio this morning reported the gillard govt are going to borrow the 4 billion for the household compensation packages from the IMF ...

Bigukraine · 14 July 2011

addison said:
adelaide radio this morning reported the gillard govt are going to borrow the 4 billion for the household compensation packages from the IMF ...

These clowns make Gough look like an amateur

dutchie · 14 July 2011

I mean how stupid are they?

We are to have this carbon tax foisted on us and to put us at a big disadvantage to the rest of the world (which does not have a tax).

But we will lead the world to show what should be done. We will close our power stations because they burn coal !

But our coal industry will thrive because we will still export it overseas, so they can burn it!!

Utter madness!!

noco · 14 July 2011

Aussiejeff said:
She has Murdoch in one hand and Fairfax in t'other, with Packer bringing up the rear....

chant....

"Yo - bro, she's a Media - ho...."

LOL

Aussiejeff, control of the media and the stiffling of free speech is the idiology of this GREEN/LABOR SOCIALIST LEFT GOVERNMENT.

trainspotter · 14 July 2011

Talk about Laurel & Hardy speak. Laurel would twist his sentences so as to be misunderstood by Hardy. Hardy would speak clearly yet pompously and his words would be misinterpreted by Laurel. It would appear that the Red Queen has the same affliction.

Ms Gillard defended her decision to proceed with a carbon tax, despite making an explicit promise before the 2010 election that she would not do so.

"I said what I said before the election and I can't unsay it," she said.

The prime minister said she was faced with a choice when it became clear the only way to achieve action on climate change was to introduce a temporary carbon tax before moving to an emissions trading scheme.

"I either stuck exactly to what I said just before the election, got no action on climate change, and did the wrong thing for the nation or I found a way to get climate change action, to do right for the country and to deal with the consequences.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...pm/story-e6frfku9-1226094588902#ixzz1S3rDhR43

Wysiwyg · 14 July 2011

dutchie said:
I mean how stupid are they?

We are to have this carbon tax foisted on us and to put us at a big disadvantage to the rest of the world (which does not have a tax).

But we will lead the world to show what should be done. We will close our power stations because they burn coal !

But our coal industry will thrive because we will still export it overseas, so they can burn it!!

Utter madness!!

'They' want to encourage greater focus and action on a less polluting world. The thinking is by creating a penalty for polluting, companies will pollute less and thus profit more. Simplistic yes but as everyone knows, if no one else is doing it we may as well pee into the wind.

Right thinking but wrong approach.

sails · 14 July 2011

dutchie said:
I mean how stupid are they?

We are to have this carbon tax foisted on us and to put us at a big disadvantage to the rest of the world (which does not have a tax).

But we will lead the world to show what should be done. We will close our power stations because they burn coal !

But our coal industry will thrive because we will still export it overseas, so they can burn it!!

Utter madness!!

Agree Dutchie - and why does one woman have the right to have her opinion imposed when she is at odds with the majority of Aussies. She might think "this is the roight thing to do", but a fair chunk of Aussies have a strongly differing opinion for the best interests of our country.

The difficulty is how to stop her imposing HER unwanted opinion of what is "roight".

explod · 14 July 2011

Calliope said:
Gillard is completely unfazed when caught out in a lie. Abbott on the other gets flustered when caught out. The difference is because Abbott had a Christian upbringing and was taught that lying is a sin. With Gillard on the other hand, her ethical standards are pretty blurred.

Gillard at least has the intelligence to be able to change her mind, poor ole Abbott is stuck in the Christian dogma. And politicians in the past have all been allowed to break promises but this time its a woman and it hurts. Suffer.

And the carbon tax may not down the track work out, but it is at least a start on the hard road to clean things up for the planet.

And dont' come this we are a small grain of sand. We are an important part of the developed world and have a duty therefore to help show the way.

But in the bigger picture the Gillard Guvmint on economics would not have a clue and few other political parties at this time seem to either in my view, so God help us in the rocky road ahead.

springhill · 14 July 2011

explod said:
Gillard at least has the intelligence to be able to change her mind, poor ole Abbott is stuck in the Christian dogma. And politicians in the past have all been allowed to break promises but this time its a woman and it hurts. Suffer.

Whoa whoa whoa hold your horses explod.
According to Turnbull Abbott has changed his mind at least twice. Turnbull claims he has supported a carbon tax AND an ETS at points in time and now doesn't.

So our biatch has changed his mind more than your biatch. Now what, biatch?

P.S. no one gives a rats ass if she is female, it matters that she is a female liar, not a female liar.

drsmith · 14 July 2011

explod said:
Gillard at least has the intelligence to be able to change her mind, poor ole Abbott is stuck in the Christian dogma. And politicians in the past have all been allowed to break promises but this time its a woman and it hurts. Suffer.

Tony Abbott's changed his mind. He once thought climate change was crap.

Do you really believe that that it's healthy for political governence to be reduced to the level where political leaders say one thing during the election campaign on such a major issue and then do the opposite in power ?

God help us indeed if our political leadership is reduced to that.

The reason for change doesn't matter. Labor went to the election on a policy platform of not pricing carbon dioxide and now seeks to impose it. We can only hope that a sin of that magnitude is unforgivable in the eyes of the Australian public.

startrader · 14 July 2011

explod said:
Gillard at least has the intelligence to be able to change her mind, poor ole Abbott is stuck in the Christian dogma. And politicians in the past have all been allowed to break promises but this time its a woman and it hurts. Suffer.

And the carbon tax may not down the track work out, but it is at least a start on the hard road to clean things up for the planet.

And dont' come this we are a small grain of sand. We are an important part of the developed world and have a duty therefore to help show the way.

But in the bigger picture the Gillard Guvmint on economics would not have a clue and few other political parties at this time seem to either in my view, so God help us in the rocky road ahead.

Gillard does not have the intelligence to change her mind. If it actually was the case and she had changed her mind because circumstances changed (the excuse which she has given in the past couple of days) people don't have a problem with that. What people don't like is the fact that she intended to do this all along and lied to the Australian people about it so that the Labor party could get elected and they could go ahead with this.

People aren't stupid and know when they are being lied to.

Also, to say that few other political parties have a clue about economics is a rather strange statement in light of the fact that the Liberal Party did a pretty good job economically when they were in charge and left Australia in an extremely good financial situation when they were voted out, which in two short years this absolutely incompetent government has managed to completely turn around.

drsmith · 14 July 2011

startrader said:
Gillard does not have the intelligence to change her mind.

If the current Labor leadership had two brain cells to rub together, they would have realised long ago that the biggest threat to them is the Greens.

Julia · 14 July 2011

sails said:
Agree Dutchie - and why does one woman have the right to have her opinion imposed when she is at odds with the majority of Aussies. She might think "this is the roight thing to do", but a fair chunk of Aussies have a strongly differing opinion for the best interests of our country.

The difficulty is how to stop her imposing HER unwanted opinion of what is "roight".

Sails, I doubt very much that Ms Gillard thinks this is the right thing to do at all.
Rather, her decision to impose a carbon tax is nothing more than a reflection of her taking instruction from the Greens. She faced a choice of appeasing the Greens and Independents to take power, or rejecting their demands and not being able to form government.

To credit her with any more lofty motives is to accord her a thoughtfulness she does not deserve.

explod said:
Gillard at least has the intelligence to be able to change her mind, poor ole Abbott is stuck in the Christian dogma. And politicians in the past have all been allowed to break promises but this time its a woman and it hurts. Suffer.

As above, I don't believe for a moment that she has changed her mind. She is simply behaving in a way that is politically expedient. And it shows in her demeanour and her defensiveness.
Absolutely nothing to do with being a woman, for god's sake!

And the carbon tax may not down the track work out, but it is at least a start on the hard road to clean things up for the planet.

It's no such thing in the absence of co-operative action from the rest of the world, especially the major industrialised nations of China and the US. What it is actually is a means of rendering Australia extremely disadvantaged with respect to our competitors globally.

And dont' come this we are a small grain of sand. We are an important part of the developed world and have a duty therefore to help show the way.

Sorry, explod. Even allowing for your romantic view of the world, that's just illogical.

But in the bigger picture the Gillard Guvmint on economics would not have a clue and few other political parties at this time seem to either in my view, so God help us in the rocky road ahead.

OK, now you have it. This little piece of logic completely belies what you have said above.

drsmith said:
Tony Abbott's changed his mind. He once thought climate change was crap.

I might be wrong, but I believe he still thinks AGW (as distinct from just 'climate change') is crap. He has in his own way, just like Ms Gillard, been held hostage to the politically acceptable middle line and accordingly offered a policy which, when the Coalition is elected, will be easily reversible.

So_Cynical · 14 July 2011

sails said:
The graph below shows that carbon "reduction" is to be achieved significantly by abatements - buying credits from overseas and could cost Australians around Three Billion dollars annually.

I have posted a couple of other articles on this on the Carbon pricing thread, but posted this here as I feel it fits in with the deceits. I don't hear Gillard saying too much about this, but if these suggestions are true, it is a real worry for this country. The government should be grilled heavily on this and the public has a right to understand exactly what the PM is trying to force on to us, imo.

HuH :dunno:

International trading of credits/offsets etc has been a part of international GHG reduction efforts since the Kyoto treaty in 1997...under both the CDM (Clean Development Mechanism) and JI (Joint Implementation) flexibility mechanisms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Development_Mechanism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Implementation

Good to see you guys are finally getting to know the detail of a treaty that's been at the very heart of the GHG /Global warming debate for the last 15 years.

sails · 14 July 2011

So_Cynical said:
...Good to see you guys are finally getting to know the detail of a treaty that's been at the very heart of the GHG /Global warming debate for the last 15 years.

And it's not working so well in other countries either..

From the Daily Mail UK: The green tax con: Climate change levies are swallowed up by Treasury

and

So_Cynical · 14 July 2011

sails said:
And it's not working so well in other countries either..

Perhaps they can learn a little from the international equity markets...and how they all run squeaky clean.

Enron
Bernie Madoff
Leahman Bros
Moodys
Storm Financial
Pyramid Building society
Tricontinental Bank
HIH
State bank of Victoria
Parmalat
And the rampant insider trading that happens every single day.

etc etc etc

sails · 14 July 2011

So_Cynical said:
Perhaps they can learn a little from the international equity markets...and how they all run squeaky clean.

Enron

Bernie Madoff

Leahman Bros

Moodys

Storm Financial

Pyramid Building society

Tricontinental Bank

HIH

State bank of Victoria

Parmalat

And the rampant insider trading that happens every single day.

etc etc etc

Maybe that's from whom they have already been learning...

Labor's carbon tax lie

Logique

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Julia

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addison

Bigukraine

dutchie

noco

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Wysiwyg

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explod

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springhill

Make the drill work for YOU

drsmith

startrader

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Julia

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sails

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