Labor's carbon tax lie

white_goodman said:

thats what happens when you elect the left factions in the centre left party, you get the most intellectually bankrupt mob of halfwits this country has seen in decades

Click to expand...

Take it you started drinking early today

IFocus said:

Malcolm wont be staying around for nothing, he will likely wait for an Abbott blow up or weakening of the rights hold over the party but having said that the Liberals will give Abbott a lot of room if he gets a big result which at the moment looks like a given.

The real question is what is it that Abbott stands for?

Now that he is a hell bent popular politician who will say any thing to any minority group that they want hear its hard to work out who he is going to give favours to.

Click to expand...

What rubbish. He wouldn't give favours to the Greens in a fit. We need to wait and see, but it's my bet he will be far more principled than the incumbent who will do or say anything to anyone to hold on to her job.

It will be really interesting on how Abbott plays out the only real certainly is that he has some really nasty Karma coming his way one from his nasty past.

Click to expand...

What nasty past, exactly? If you're going to cast slurs like that you need to be specific.

IFocus said:

Take it you started drinking early today

Click to expand...

If you can't come up with something less personal and more constructive than that, it might be good to just say nothing.

Now that things are settling down a bit, a few trends are becoming very clear with perhaps the most serious being the intentional running down of water storages.

The hydro-electric generators are effectively liquidating water in storage on the assumption that the carbon tax represents a time limited opportunity to turn water into cash at a higher price than would otherwise have prevailed.

It's a fairly simple equation. Inflows to storage will be whatever they will be regardless of the tax. But there's water in the dams right now, which if turned into electricity has suddenly jumped in value. There is however a credible, indeed it seems quite likely, scenario that the value will drop again after the next election.

It thus makes sense to get rid of the water. Turn it into electricity and hence cash, knowing that the water is likely to lose value if left sitting in storage. There is thus a strong financial disincentive to storing water.

There is no real saving of CO2 emissions by doing this since the water would have been released at some point with or without the tax. It's purely a trading operation - sell now whilst the price is high bearing in mind the likelihood that prices will drop after the next election.

In other words, water resource management has become nothing more than a gamble on the outcome of the next election. Better hope we don't get a drought - things could get real interesting if we do.

My comments relate to more than one company by the way. It's the industry as a whole that is going down this track, with several operators doing it. Hydro Tas is probably the most blatant (it was literally front page news a couple of days ago in a Tas newspaper) but most hydro operators are doing essentially the same thing at least as far as they can get away with it.

This isn't a rational approach in my opinion from a national perspective, though I can certainly understand why power station owners would seek to do so. If there's a likelihood that an asset is about to lose serious value then it makes sense to get rid of it. It's a purely financial decision that takes no account of other things such as the ecology of the lakes, downstream water users, security of national energy supply and the like.

IFocus said:

His mantra about repealing taxes sacking public servants and giving out money just needn't add up, its a known fact that there isn't much fat left in the federal landscape.

It will be really interesting on how Abbott plays out the only real certainly is that he has some really nasty Karma coming his way one from his nasty past.

Click to expand...

isnt much fat? Have you seen what the federal budget is up to these days?

Drop the BS nasty comments its R Tarded, I do agree with you though, I think he pays lip service to a lot of things has no real policies, but will still win cause the other mob is beyond terrible.

its a shame the LDP isnt the 3rd major party, ill have to vote Liberal again out of a hope they live up to the talk of less govt, which they wont, both sides are inept.

IFocus said:

Take it you started drinking early today

Click to expand...

I could be the town drunkard and fart out more intelligible arguments then yourself

and since when is 5pm considered drinking early?

Andrew Bolt sums it up well (bold is mine):

The collapse of the global warming cause is instructive.

Here is another cause which the Left adopted with a moral fervour which once again licensed its inner totalitarian. Labor felt entitled to lie, deceive, exaggerate and impose for the greater good, but when that good turned to trash, Labor was left looking merely sneaky, arrogant and extremely stupid.

Click to expand...

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...eless_retreat_from_its_global_warming_moscow/

Most of us will have heard yesterday about the General Manager of Brumby's Bread franchise sending a note to his store owners suggesting they should not discourage customers from attributing routine CPI price rises to the carbon tax.

Much outcry occurred and humble apologies were duly issued by Brumby's.

Thinking about this, wouldn't it in fact be fairly reasonable for businesses to start raising their prices in anticipation of the increased electricity (and other) bills they will have to pay?

I don't have a clear view about this one way or the other so would be interested in what others think.

Julia said:

Most of us will have heard yesterday about the General Manager of Brumby's Bread franchise sending a note to his store owners suggesting they should not discourage customers from attributing routine CPI price rises to the carbon tax.

Much outcry occurred and humble apologies were duly issued by Brumby's.

Thinking about this, wouldn't it in fact be fairly reasonable for businesses to start raising their prices in anticipation of the increased electricity (and other) bills they will have to pay?

I don't have a clear view about this one way or the other so would be interested in what others think.

Click to expand...

It's pretty crazy to bring in a tax where business owners have no idea how much it will cost them - at least not until they start getting bills over the next few months.

It is pretty clear this government have no idea how business operates. In reality, do they have any idea about anything? I can't think of anything except for Gillard being able to hang on to power. But even then, I don't know how much tax payers funds have been thrown at independents and whatever else she needs to stay in power.

sails said:

It's pretty crazy to bring in a tax where business owners have no idea how much it will cost them - at least not until they start getting bills over the next few months.

It is pretty clear this government have no idea how business operates. In reality, do they have any idea about anything? I can't think of anything except for Gillard being able to hang on to power. But even then, I don't know how much tax payers funds have been thrown at independents and whatever else she needs to stay in power.

Click to expand...

how many have ever run a business?, show me any one that hasnt followed the

uni > socialist uni group > union member/party member-worker > elected member, model

white_goodman said:

isnt much fat? Have you seen what the federal budget is up to these days?

Click to expand...

If you want to join the chorus here repeating what Abbott and Bolt says fine......or you could actualy reasearch the numbers or if not at least start reading George Megalogenis and actually come to grips with the numbers one thats a real problem and thats falling revues......AKA budget deficit black hole.

Drop the BS nasty comments its R Tarded, I do agree with you though, I think he pays lip service to a lot of things has no real policies, but will still win cause the other mob is beyond terrible.

Click to expand...

Abbott was Howards hit man / attack dog and proud of it at the time at least read some political history.......

white_goodman said:

I could be the town drunkard and fart out more intelligible arguments then yourself

and since when is 5pm considered drinking early?

Click to expand...

Nothing intelligent IMHO in calling the Gillard government left wing when is further right than the Fraser government, less centralist than Howard but hey keep the mantras going what the heck.

IFocus said:

Nothing intelligent IMHO in calling the Gillard government left wing when is further right than the Fraser government, less centralist than Howard but hey keep the mantras going what the heck.

Click to expand...

She is a Fabian FCS. That, in my book a socialist left wing communist.

IFocus said:

Nothing intelligent IMHO in calling the Gillard government left wing when is further right than the Fraser government, less centralist than Howard but hey keep the mantras going what the heck.

Click to expand...

that's your opinion, IF. I doubt many Aussies would agree with you.

Gillards Carbon Tax....

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-carbon-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983

sails said:

that's your opinion, IF. I doubt many Aussies would agree with you.

Click to expand...

I agree but its more to do with the Gillard governments political incompetence than than political ideology or policy.

As I have said before Menzies would not get a start on Abbotts front bench just like Regan wouldn't get a start as a Republican President nominee such has the political spectrum has moved to the right.

Smurf1976 said:

This isn't a rational approach in my opinion from a national perspective, though I can certainly understand why power station owners would seek to do so. If there's a likelihood that an asset is about to lose serious value then it makes sense to get rid of it. It's a purely financial decision that takes no account of other things such as the ecology of the lakes, downstream water users, security of national energy supply and the like.

Click to expand...

Since when has this been about a rational approach from a national perspective? The government threw that out the window when they jumped in feet first with the greens, without thinking it through.
But their salaries have improved considerably.

sptrawler said:

But their salaries have improved considerably.

Click to expand...

and that's what's important

IFocus said:

Nothing intelligent IMHO in calling the Gillard government left wing when is further right than the Fraser government, less centralist than Howard but hey keep the mantras going what the heck.

Click to expand...

In my opinion(which isn't worth much) I think labor is starting to realise what a stuff up they have done. I'm not being funny, I think they are maturing and starting to realise they need to get off the hyper speed pills and slow the game down a bit.
It is just a shame they are in the last quarter of the game and have kicked so many home goals.

sptrawler said:

In my opinion(which isn't worth much)

Click to expand...

All opinions are worthy and welcome here sptrawler no matter what

sptrawler said:

It is just a shame they are in the last quarter of the game and have kicked so many home goals.

Click to expand...

I am just wondering is the damage going to escalate?.
I am also concerned will they attempt to pull off something "smart" to corner the votes.
If they do, how will our economy cope?

e.g. In Qld. we have Newman attempting to solve the problems with debt, but some people still not
happy!
joea